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Room 222...Could It Be?


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#141 of 155 OFFLINE   Brian Himes

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Posted July 25 2014 - 07:59 AM

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Everyone,

 

I believe that I owe just about everyone here an apology. I am the one that brought up Room 222 in another thread as an example of the type of show that has all of the intrinsic values that Jimmy places on TV shows that in his eyes are shoe-ins for a release. Simply based on those intrinsic values (high quality, good acting, good writing, etc.) with Room 222 I hoped to illustrate the flaws in his logic. Instead, he researched the releases and discovered the less than stellar picture quality (a value he didn’t place on a shows releasablity and only later said that such a condition was assumed) and used that to attempt to refute any arguments to the contrary. If I had known that Room 222 was going to become Jimmy’s next big platform for his continued soap box rantings I would never have brought it up. For that I am truly sorry. I am also sorry that Jimmy simply cannot or will not hear anything but the sound of his own voice nor take into consideration plain and simple rational logic. Any evidence that doesn’t fit into his opinion is simply dismissed like a child blowing raspberries. Only to be countered by the ever present, ‘it will come out, studios will not let it just rot in the vault, they will choose to make some money rather than no money’ statements. Being optimistic and hopeful is one thing but when it blinds you to even the most miniscule of evidence to the contrary, it borders on the delusional.

 

Jimmy, the bottom line is that neither you nor I are in charge of what the studios do or do not do with their property. They are the ones that are in control of it. If they choose to let it rot in the vaults, that is their decision. If they choose to release it (in whatever configuration they release it in) that is their decision. There is nothing that either of us can say to change that. We can sit here and argue this from now until the end of time and we cannot or will not change that simple fact. And before you throw out WKRP, The Wonder Years and Batman again, for the last time, those three shows are not in the same league as shows like Room 222. They are not even in the same ball park. Period.

 

Again everyone, I am sorry that I opened up this particular can of worms. I will not get sucked into this ridiculous discussion again. It’s just a waste of my time.  


The music does matter.


#142 of 155 OFFLINE   jimmyjet

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Posted July 25 2014 - 08:26 AM

cute clip of karen valentine

 

 

 



#143 of 155 OFFLINE   jimmyjet

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Posted July 25 2014 - 09:26 AM

james l brooks interview

 

i think the first mention of room 222 is at about 23 minutes in part 2

 



#144 of 155 OFFLINE   Brian Himes

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Posted July 25 2014 - 10:26 AM

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and if you guys buy each season individually, they will be more than happy to gouge you.

 

and when your tv shows get stalled after a couple of seasons, all ya gotta do is look in the mirror !!!!!

 

so we buy into all that "put out a season, and see if it sells bs", you can bet your boots that is exactly what they will do.

 

and if a person is willing to bend over, he has only himself to blame when someone gives him a kick in the behind.

 

dont allow yourself to get all anxious about everything.  things will come when they will come.  and if we all behaved that way, there would be no reason for the studios to delay.

 

many of you are your own worst enemies.

 

I find the above kind of statements personally offensive. Let's just one thing straight right here and now.

 

It was I and many others who bought all seasons of shows like Hawaii Five-O, The Wild Wild West, MASH, All In The Family, Three's Company and many others that directly contributed towards you being able to sit on the sidelines and buy that complete series set. It was our money that made that possible for you. Think about that before you belittle those of us who buy the individual season sets. 90% of the time if it wasn't for us, you wouldn't be getting squat.


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#145 of 155 OFFLINE   BobO'Link

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Posted July 25 2014 - 10:47 AM

^And we're "rewarded" by our efforts by full series sets containing "bonus features" not available for individual sale.  That means those truly loyal fans get suckered by *not* getting the very things many would love to own unless they are willing to double-dip by purchasing the full series set. 

 

Using one of your examples, The Wild Wild West comes with the made-for-TV movies as a bonus.  They are unavailable outside that set so those of us who purchased the single seasons have to purchase that series set (along with its crappy packaging) just to get a couple of movies that *should* be available separately.  That's where "bend over" comes into play...



#146 of 155 OFFLINE   ScottDombrowski

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Posted July 25 2014 - 10:50 AM

As a big fan of shows like Gunsmoke, Bonanza, Dark Shadows, Bewitched, All in the Family, Magnum P.I. and more, all of which ran for 8+ seasons, I'd personally hate to have waited the better part of a decade or more for the complete series!  Instead, I've been happily watching these for years!  If they never release another set of Gunsmoke or Bonanza, I'll be perfectly happy to have a couple hundred episodes of each.  Now I certainly don't buy everything day of release and have become pretty good at waiting for some great sales.  Also, as for complete series being high quality, the discs maybe, but the packaging definitely not!



#147 of 155 OFFLINE   Brian Himes

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Posted July 25 2014 - 03:42 PM

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^And we're "rewarded" by our efforts by full series sets containing "bonus features" not available for individual sale.  That means those truly loyal fans get suckered by *not* getting the very things many would love to own unless they are willing to double-dip by purchasing the full series set. 

 

Using one of your examples, The Wild Wild West comes with the made-for-TV movies as a bonus.  They are unavailable outside that set so those of us who purchased the single seasons have to purchase that series set (along with its crappy packaging) just to get a couple of movies that *should* be available separately.  That's where "bend over" comes into play...

 

Yes, and I find the practice just as appalling. What I don't like is what is essentially being called an idiot for buying the individual season sets or having that purchase blamed for the reason a show stalls after only a couple of seasons. If someone wants to sit on the sidelines and wait for the complete series set instead of the individual season method, that is their choice. It is not necessary to belittle those people that do buy the individual seasons. Like I said, in just about 90% of those instances it was the individual season sales that led to the complete series set.

 

My 'reward' was getting the series completed in the first place.


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#148 of 155 OFFLINE   jimmyjet

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Posted July 25 2014 - 04:04 PM

I find the above kind of statements personally offensive. Let's just one thing straight right here and now.

 

It was I and many others who bought all seasons of shows like Hawaii Five-O, The Wild Wild West, MASH, All In The Family, Three's Company and many others that directly contributed towards you being able to sit on the sidelines and buy that complete series set. It was our money that made that possible for you. Think about that before you belittle those of us who buy the individual season sets. 90% of the time if it wasn't for us, you wouldn't be getting squat.

 

when i disagree with you, i am being personally offensive to you ?

 

when you disagree with me, you are telling me how it is ?

 

you have the opinion that buying seasons helps new seasons come out.

 

i have the opinion that doing that encourages the studios to continue to gouge us, and then be much more apt to stall on future releases, cuz they already got a lot of their funds, and have less incentive to come up with another season.

 

if you are offended because i dont think your actions are helpful, so be it.  cuz i dont think those actions are helpful.  in fact, i think they hurt the process.

 

however, i am not offended that you may think that i hurt the process by not buying individual seasons.  i think you are entitled to your opinion without me being offended by it one way or the other.



#149 of 155 OFFLINE   jimmyjet

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Posted July 25 2014 - 04:27 PM

let's examine many of their previous actions.

 

as was recently stated, a complete series has often been released after all individual seasons, and then extras were put in.

 

i detest that practice.  just another reason why i dont want people to encourage the studios, by purchasing individual seasons.

 

if the studio's real intentions were as some claim (we need to see if the public will buy season 1 before we put out season 2), they would not do that to you guys. (make you purchase the series to get all the extras).

 

what you may call belittling, i call being protective.  i understand that you have the absolutely best of intentions.

 

but at least in the past, the studios HAVE NOT HAD THE BEST OF INTENTIONS.

 

as long as they can use people, they did.

 

if they really valued that process of people buying individual seasons, at the very least they would put out for sale the extras by themselves for those who could prove that they bought the individual seasons, already.

 

in the past, the studios have treated the individual season buyers as people they had over the barrel, and used them.

 

when you look at what actually happened, that is the only conclusion that doesnt have flaws.

 

for gosh sakes, if i am putting out a product, and some group of people is truly helping me to put it out, i am gonna bend over backwards to make sure that they are satisfied.  that is exactly the opposite of what did happen.

 

the people that bought individual seasons were treated shoddily.



#150 of 155 ONLINE   smithbrad

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Posted July 25 2014 - 06:07 PM

the people that bought individual seasons were treated shoddily.

 

Jimmy, that's only true in a few instances, not all. The fact is the studio's are a business out to make money but not at a risk. So if you want to say the studio treats fans in shoddy fashion because in some instances they've released extras in complete seasons sets as a way to try to entice them to repurchase, guilty as charged. But I am also of the opinion that they would not risk putting out the financial burden to produce a complete set for a series that might either lose them money or not bring in the profit to be worth their trouble. And in that case it is also shoddy to the fans because they would have much less then they have now. While i know you don't believe this, but each season set not only determines whether the next season is released but it also funds it. That is called removing financial risk. That is what they do. It is also known that later seasons generally do not sell as well as earlier seasons. So if a product has a higher market value it could make financial sense to go full series first because not all may have bought all seasons if first distributed separately.

 

In the end, it makes no difference what you or i believe, because you can no more prove that quality would be higher, less series would be stalled, and we would have more complete sets available; then i can prove that if everyone waited for complete sets that we would have much less available to us then we have now. So why don't we stop with the "what if" discussions, each follow our own instincts, and just enjoy what we can. Truth is this discussion has become tedious and is going no where.



#151 of 155 OFFLINE   Brian Himes

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Posted July 25 2014 - 06:41 PM

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Jimmy,

 

I did not find your disagreeing with me to be offensive.  

 

In one fell swoop you essentially blamed those of us who purchase individual season sets as the reason for a series being stalled.

 

 “and when your tv shows get stalled after a couple of seasons, all ya gotta do is look in the mirror !!!!!”

 

These are your words.

 

You then went on and essentially called those same individuals, at best, mindless sheep by giving into studio scare tactics for buying individual season sets.

 

These are the things I took offense to.

 

I did not give into studio scare tactics. I bought what was offered at the time. I did what I thought was my part in showing an interest in a series by purchasing what was offered at the time. If that was individual season sets, a 'best of' collection or the complete series, then that is what I bought. I don't give two dead dingo's kidneys for extras that are released in a complete series set that only comes out after I have purchased each season individually. I am not one to double dip just to get those things. I find this practice by the studios appalling and I will not give into to it. Sure, I would love to have them, but they are not the be all and end all for me. If I have the series completed, that is what is the most important to me. I don't care how I arrived at the end so long as I get to the end.

 

If you or anyone else wish to purchase only complete series sets, that is your privilege and I will not begrudge you the pleasure. I have no opinion one way or another on how you choose to spend your money.

 

I’m with Brad on this. This discussion has become tedious. I'm outta here. Peace.


The music does matter.


#152 of 155 OFFLINE   jimmyjet

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Posted July 25 2014 - 10:09 PM

okay, let me add my last 2 cents.

 

i do not like seeing people used.  it is my intention to help people better understand, so they can make wiser decisions.

 

the wiser the general public is, the better it is for all of us.

 

i had a career as a highly trained computer systems analyst.

 

it is a waste of time trying to pull the wool over my eyes.

 

i have had to design many complicated computer systems, or play a part in them.

 

whether we are talking about politicians, lawyers, big business - they all drink from the same teacup. 

 

they know how to manipulate the masses to best serve their needs.  this is their job.

 

when i look at the results, it is so simple to me, that i would compare it to asking a calculus teacher to do a first grade arithmetic problem.

 

with these people, there are always 2 stories.  one is the real reason, that we are never told.  the other is what they tell us, in order to sell us.

 

let's just say brian owns a 10-season tv show, and he has the problem exactly as the studios have described it.

 

and he hires jimmy to tell him how to accomplish his goal, as described.

 

in case there is any confusion about the goal, "brian has only limited funds, and he cant afford to do the work on more than 1 season unless he knows that people will buy it.  cuz he needs funds in order to do his work.  and of course he wants to make some profit.  he is not in it for his health".

 

jimmy replies, there is an extremely simple answer to that.

 

current season costs x.  previous seasons cost xPlus.

 

in one fell swoop, you entice your audience to pay you up front, so you have the funds to do what you need to do.  those that do help you, are compensated then and there.  everyone else who waits until season 2 is out has to pay more.  so now all these people who have put their confidence in you by paying up front are really rewarded.

 

and you certainly dont do anything to piss them off, by making them pay more !!

 

now contrast that system to the one that is actually in place.

 

if we want to understand what the real goals of a system are, we need to focus on the results.

 

and in life, that usually means following the money.

 

businesses will at least attempt to do whatever they can to entice us out of our money.

 

it is only when we stand firm, that they do better.

 

if we had continued purchasing low quality releases, they would have continued making them.  no sense putting money into something that they dont have to.

 

the people that i tend to argue and disagree with the most, are also the people with whom i have the most liking for.  if i didnt like ya, i wouldnt spend the time.

 

so peace out to you guys, as well.



#153 of 155 ONLINE   smithbrad

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Posted July 26 2014 - 05:13 AM

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Hey Jimmy, as a System's Analyst your role was to define the requirements for a new system. As a long time Developer myself, my job is too design and implement the solution. Requirements can be difficult to initially validate for completeness or readiness, which is why development tends to happen in an iterative environment because things have a way of changing along the when when the client gets a chance to see how the new system progresses. In other words, requirements need to a way of going through changes, which leads to building a better system.

 

IMO, your approach to this is based on a Waterfall methodology where requirements are captured once and only once. You are not allowing your view to adjust at all based on new information as it come to light from real experiences and testing of the market. That tends to lead to an outdated model by completion. An iterative approach allows for these adjustments and isn't so rigid. Thus, leading to a better overall result.

 

Your model of this industry hasn't adjusted at all no matter what evidence has been presented to you. After all the discussion and all the counter arguments from some with a lot more experience in this market than you or I and you haven't budged in the least way. That shows me you are frozen into your model and just can't be reasoned with. As a result, I'm out, this discussion is coming out in too many threads these days when it serves no purpose anymore. I'm off to just enjoy what I have because i don't need the negativity of this discussion. Enjoy beating a dead horse.



#154 of 155 OFFLINE   jimmyjet

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Posted July 26 2014 - 06:04 AM

i scanned thru parts 3-5 - i did not find any mention of room 222

 

these archive interviews tend to be somewhat chronological, so that may be all there is about it in the 11-part interview.



#155 of 155 OFFLINE   Neil Brock

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Posted July 26 2014 - 08:30 AM

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As is the case in many threads on this forum, jimmy (I don't believe in punctuation or capitalizaion) jet has managed to infuriate many and draw people into arguing with his skewed views. The bottom line is, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. If a show comes out and the sales suck, you aren't seeing a complete boxed set of the full series. Where are my complete box sets of Baretta, One Step Beyond, Police Story, Ironside, Marcus Welby, Police Woman, The Rookies, White Shadow and many others that stalled out because sales were poor? The logic of thinking that by NOT buying single season releases it will encourage full series sets is so asinine that I find it difficult to believe that its not just jimmy doing what he usually does, which is stir up shit to get an argument going. Yeah, I can just see the meeting rooms at these studios where someone will say, hey we put out season one and sold 900 copies and lost $50,000. Let's do the full run of the show. Yeah, right. Like that guy would have a job after that.




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