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I still blame the studios....


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35 replies to this topic

#1 of 36 todd s

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Posted January 26 2007 - 02:49 AM

I know I have mentioned this before. But, I still blame the studios for this blu-ray-HD war. I understand the manufacturers are going to compete. But, the studios either should have gotten together and decided which format to use or released in both and let the public decide which format to support. It annoys me that I really want to get into HD dvd's. But, I can't decide which to buy. If I go Blu-Ray...I lose out on Universal. If I go HD-Dvd I lose out on Disney. And I can't afford both. I also don't want to buy into one of the systems only to see it possibly lose the format war. Then I have to get the other.

I know their is a lot more to this than I know. And their are fans of each side who give compelling arguements as to why their format is better. But, I spend an average of $100 a month on dvd's. And actually I have slowed down figuring I may want to get them in HD eventually. So not only are the studios losing my money for any HD product. They are losing my regular dvd money. So I think the studios should have worked this out before. All this is doing is holding back the HD market. I know a lot of my friends who are interested in getting HD players. But, don't know what to get. And these are people who are just average joe's...Not videophiles.

Sorry about my rant.

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Bring back John Doe! Or at least resolve the cliff-hanger with a 2hr movie or as an extra on a dvd release.

#2 of 36 Shawn Perron

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Posted January 26 2007 - 02:58 AM

Well Hollywood has pretty much reached a concensus that Blu-Ray is the next format... except for Universal who are the last hold out. HD-DVD does have Warner and Paramount releasing thier titles on both formats, but they both have pledged to release title for title on Blu-Ray as well. After CES I think it put into perspective for a lot of people that other then Universal, HD-DVD doesn't really have much going for it. While there are a couple titles on the list they released yesterday, there really isn't anything there that makes me think it's enough to counterbalance all the Blu-Ray exclusive studios offerings.

#3 of 36 ppltd

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Posted January 26 2007 - 03:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Perron
Well Hollywood has pretty much reached a concensus that Blu-Ray is the next format... except for Universal who are the last hold out..
How so? There are currently only four major studios that have decided that one side or the other should win out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Perron
HD-DVD does have Warner and Paramount releasing thier titles on both formats, but they both have pledged to release title for title on Blu-Ray as well.
This is good. All studios shoul;d support both formats equally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Perron
After CES I think it put into perspective for a lot of people that other then Universal, HD-DVD doesn't really have much going for it.
Your opinion. Both formats have a lot to offer, and I actually like the competion. It has pushed both sides to improve quality. What I do not like is studio exclusivity. That takes the ability of selection out of the consumers hand. While this might have been a good thing prior to the release of HD or BD, since the competing factions could not come to an agreement the genie has been let out of the bottle. Since both have come out, and both formats have had a modest success, I personally do not want the content supplies making my purchasing decisions for me. It is too late for that.
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#4 of 36 Deane Johnson

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Posted January 26 2007 - 03:24 AM

I would think it might be illegal for the studios to get together and agree on which format to all support. Not a lawyer, but it just seems like it might be a no-no.

What they could have done is all go format neutral and release on both, as some have done. Then, the marketplace would truly have decided.

#5 of 36 Shawn Perron

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Posted January 26 2007 - 03:57 AM

Quote:
How so? There are currently only four major studios that have decided that one side or the other should win out.

Courtesy of webster online dictionary.
consensus: the judgment arrived at by most of those concerned

There is a Hollywood concensus that Blu-Ray is the way to go at this point.

Quote:
This is good. All studios should support both formats equally.

Actually, they should all do what is in thier financial best interest, and not every studio thinks having 2 competing formats is a good business decision. I know that it's negatively impacted my buying habits, and I'm hardly alone on that. I no longer buy SD because I'm waiting to buy them in HD and I refuse to buy in HD until this war ends.

Quote:
What I do not like is studio exclusivity. That takes the ability of selection out of the consumers hand. While this might have been a good thing prior to the release of HD or BD, since the competing factions could not come to an agreement the genie has been let out of the bottle. Since both have come out, and both formats have had a modest success, I personally do not want the content supplies making my purchasing decisions for me. It is too late for that.

Why would studios release in both formats when it goes against thier business interests? If anything, the continued existence of 2 formats has hurt HD more then any other factor. It's in thier best interests to have a buying public that can freely purchase thier movies with no worries. The HTF has an entire thread called "High Definition DVD: What is Holding You Back?" full of people that feel the same way.

#6 of 36 ChristopherG

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Posted January 26 2007 - 04:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Perron
Courtesy of webster online dictionary.
concensus: the judgment arrived at by most of those concerned

There is a Hollywood concensus that Blu-Ray is the way to go at this point.

It's consensus - sorry, but did you say you looked it up? Posted Image


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Perron
Why would studios release in both formats when it goes against thier business interests?

I'm not following you here - if they released in both formats and people who own competing formats still bought the films...how is that against their business interests?
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#7 of 36 Shawn Perron

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Posted January 26 2007 - 04:51 AM

Quote:
I'm not following you here - if they released in both formats and people who own competing formats still bought the films...how is that against their business interests?

Many people, and I might go so far as to say most people, refuse to get involved until there is a clear winner. As long as there are 2 formats, they are alienating customers that might otherwise purchase thier movies. For some reason some people seem to think that as long as both formats were equally supported everything would be ok, but that's just not the case as far as many people are concerned. Total HD might seem like a good idea, but there is always the possibility that the format war will kill both formats, rendering this whole generation of optical discs as a loss.

#8 of 36 BrettB

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Posted January 26 2007 - 05:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by todd s
But, I spend an average of $100 a month on dvd's.

No need for frustration. At $100/month you can afford the most expensive BDP out there. Posted Image

#9 of 36 JohnPhi

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Posted January 26 2007 - 06:01 AM

Price is also a big factor that these studios need to work on. I do realize that high def should cost more than SD, but in some cases more than double is too much. I know a lot of you buy on amazon, but if you dont, you are likely to pay forty for bd and 30 for HD DVD. For todd that means going from buying 6 dvd's down to 2 bd's or 3 HD DVD's

#10 of 36 Neil Joseph

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Posted January 26 2007 - 06:02 AM

I understand your frustration!!!

When I was deciding to buy one format or the other, I listed pros and cons of each.... something I usually do when making such a decision. Both had their pros and cons but the biggest pro was the movies available now and in the future that I like. It made no sense to invest in a format if most of the films I like are on the other format. I know things can change (possibly) as far as studio support goes though.
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#11 of 36 Jason Seaver

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Posted January 26 2007 - 06:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by todd s
But, the studios either should have gotten together and decided which format to use or released in both and let the public decide which format to support.
So, basically, Sony should have been able to dictate to the rest of the industry that Blu-ray was the way to go? Because as nice as the "getting together to come to a decision" sounds, it assumes that the software and hardware companies are independent entities, which they clearly aren't. It would have been nigh-impossible to convince Columbia/Tri-Star to go with a format other than the one its parent company has a major investment in.
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#12 of 36 JohnPhi

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Posted January 26 2007 - 07:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Seaver
So, basically, Sony should have been able to dictate to the rest of the industry that Blu-ray was the way to go? Because as nice as the "getting together to come to a decision" sounds, it assumes that the software and hardware companies are independent entities, which they clearly aren't. It would have been nigh-impossible to convince Columbia/Tri-Star to go with a format other than the one its parent company has a major investment in.


and yet somehow we got a unified format for dvd

#13 of 36 todd s

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Posted January 26 2007 - 08:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Seaver
So, basically, Sony should have been able to dictate to the rest of the industry that Blu-ray was the way to go? Because as nice as the "getting together to come to a decision" sounds, it assumes that the software and hardware companies are independent entities, which they clearly aren't. It would have been nigh-impossible to convince Columbia/Tri-Star to go with a format other than the one its parent company has a major investment in.

If the Sony had the better format and the studios think so. Then yes. If the other studios, except Sony, decided that HD-DVD was the way to go and all released exclusively for that. Then eventually Sony would have no choice but to release in HD-DVD.

I was seriously considering getting a Blu-ray player after I heard (or didn't hear in this case) of any big HD-DVD releases by Universal. A lot of people thought it was their way of conceding or at least coming to the decision to release in Blu-ray. But, with their announcement yesterday. I am holding off. Like I said and others have re-iterated. I would love to spend my money on HD dvd's. But, until one format has releases from all the big studios. I will hold off. And as I and others have said...My regular dvd purchases have slowed to a trickle.
Bring back John Doe! Or at least resolve the cliff-hanger with a 2hr movie or as an extra on a dvd release.

#14 of 36 ppltd

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Posted January 26 2007 - 08:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Perron
Many people, and I might go so far as to say most people, refuse to get involved until there is a clear winner. As long as there are 2 formats, they are alienating customers that might otherwise purchase thier movies. For some reason some people seem to think that as long as both formats were equally supported everything would be ok, but that's just not the case as far as many people are concerned. Total HD might seem like a good idea, but there is always the possibility that the format war will kill both formats, rendering this whole generation of optical discs as a loss.
Guess we will just have to agree to disagree.
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#15 of 36 Adam Tyner

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Posted January 26 2007 - 08:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnPhi
and yet somehow we got a unified format for dvd
After the fact, yes. It wasn't much of a 'format war' between DVD and Divx, but there was one nonetheless.

#16 of 36 Jason Seaver

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Posted January 26 2007 - 09:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by todd s
If the Sony had the better format and the studios think so. Then yes.
Ah, but apparently Universal values HD-DVD's potential backward-compatibility and lower manufacturing cost over BD's higher capacity and bandwidth. Should they have been coerced somehow into supporting BD? Besides, I'd suggest that competing formats benefits the individual competing studios - assuming they chose the "right" format, they'll have less competition for that segment of the market. So while Sony has reason to want Universal to release on BD for patent-money reasons, Fox would probably rather Universal stayed HD-DVD exclusive.

That DVD got their crap together reasonably well before Sony and Warner (and later Universal) started releasing movies is, quite frankly, amazing; don't forget that Paramount, Disney, and Fox seemed to take forever to get on the bandwagon ten years ago.
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#17 of 36 Jim_K

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Posted January 27 2007 - 03:01 AM

Quote:
I also don't want to buy into one of the systems only to see it possibly lose the format war. Then I have to get the other.

You're not alone. I recently upgraded to the new 60" SXRD XBR2 and a HD-DVR and I'm ready to jump in to the next format. Problem is there is no definitive "next format" until this damn format war ends.

For right now I'll have to be content upconverting my SD collection via my oppo player and the HD movie channels I'm getting. While I'm probably going to continue buying older catalog titles on SD, I'm thinking of weaning myself off of new releases for the time being.

On a side note - from talking with friends and family I've noticed that all had no idea that there are 2 different/uncompatable HD formats, though they were keenly aware of Blu-Ray. Hardly a scientific survey but I thought it interesting. I also notice a much bigger marketing push for Blu-Ray at the B&M electronic stores I've been to lately.

Based on the studio support (cept for Uni) and once Blu-Ray players drop in price (under $500) I might just throw my chips into BR corner and let the dice roll where they may.

For right now I'm very interested in how things will unfold this year.
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#18 of 36 ScottHM

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Posted January 27 2007 - 05:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Perron
Many people, and I might go so far as to say most people, refuse to get involved until there is a clear winner. As long as there are 2 formats, they are alienating customers that might otherwise purchase thier movies.
I remember the day when you could purchase the latest music on LP, cassette, or 8-track, all at the same time. Did this stifle the music industry?

(Oh, and by the way, you could also listen to it for free off the radio.)

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#19 of 36 Alistair_M

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Posted January 27 2007 - 05:34 AM

Its a nightmare deciding. But I have done it. I'm getting a ps3 and going bluray. As I see it, only one main studio Universal has to agree to release on bluray and then I can get everything I want.

So yeah its a risk, but I think I've gone for the winner. It doesn't mean that hd-dvd will fail totally, but I can't see Universal not releasing eventually to bluray when there are millions of players out there. Even if some execs at Universal are anti-blu, I expect the others will force them to release on blu too. There's too much money to be made, and it looks like Universal is having tough times with poor corporate results lately.

There are plenty of movies to buy on bluray so I can be patient for a while for univeral to release on to the format (but it will get tougher when universal starts releasing hitchcock on hd-dvd!). Please Universal release on bluray by 2008!

#20 of 36 DanR

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Posted January 27 2007 - 09:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alistair_M
Its a nightmare deciding. But I have done it. I'm getting a ps3 and going bluray. As I see it, only one main studio Universal has to agree to release on bluray and then I can get everything I want.

So yeah its a risk, but I think I've gone for the winner. It doesn't mean that hd-dvd will fail totally, but I can't see Universal not releasing eventually to bluray when there are millions of players out there. Even if some execs at Universal are anti-blu, I expect the others will force them to release on blu too. There's too much money to be made, and it looks like Universal is having tough times with poor corporate results lately.

There are plenty of movies to buy on bluray so I can be patient for a while for univeral to release on to the format (but it will get tougher when universal starts releasing hitchcock on hd-dvd!). Please Universal release on bluray by 2008!
I think you've made the right decision. Yes, it is a risk, but look at it this way. A studio supporting one format now, if it goes neutral, is not going to abandon its current format of choice. In other words, if Fox were to go HD DVD, they won't be abandoning BD and if Universal supports BD, they are not going to abandon HD DVD. So let's take a look at this from a "major" studio standpoint.

One, if you buy a BD player, you have all studios but one...Universal. As you've pointed out, the best case scenario is if they go neutral then you will have 100% studio coverage. Your worst case scenario is that you have a BD player to play Sony Pictures Entertainment BDs... because Sony won't be releasing HD DVDs in your lifetime.

Two, apply that now to HD DVD. You are missing FOUR studios, one of which will never release on BD (i.e. Sony Pictures). Your best case scenario here is that you have three studios defect to HD DVD but even then you don't have Sony Pictures. Your worst case scenario is that Universal goes neutral and releases on BD. At that point, what is the logic of buying a format that doesn't have the 100% studio coverage that the other one does?

Now, look at the momentum of the recent 6 weeks, and you tell me which one is likely to happen. I think Bill Hunt put it best, people are way to emotionally involved in this ridiculous format war. As I mentioned in another thread, expect to be on a roller coaster ride if you have too much invested emotionally. But I assure you, at the end of the day, the hits will keep coming. Finally, I think things will be much more clear soon, maybe sooner than a lot of you expect.

Regards,
Dan


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