Song of The South Disney Web Page & discussion on why this film needs to be released (2 Viewers)

[Mark Anthony]

I hate political correctness, censorship and racism in equal measure - therefore SOTS should be released uncut, but with an introduction from a noted film historian to place it in context - if this can be released intact there will be no excuse for the butchering of the past by disney and many others.

MA

 

[Doug Pyle]

George, I agree with you in terms of degree, compared with the titles you listed. Anyway, my son's too young to be interested in Gone With the Wind!

As I wrote, it has been a long time since I saw SOTS. My impression is one of a general stereotyping -- even joyful stereotyping. Not a particularly negative portrayal or attitude. Again, I'm fuzzy on this, and that's why I want to see it again and check my old impression, which has by now been influenced by comments of others (like Ebert). I hope Disney releases this (I DO want them to). Until then, I need to rely on others for details. Anyway, that is not my point.

I'm opposed to censorship. Rather, Disney should look at marketing/packaging to the appropriate audience.

My concern is with all the blanket dismissals of Ebert's concerns as being merely PC. Others called concerns like his about stereotyping content of films (in this and other threads) as whining and complaining. While not condoning censorship in any way, I also don't want to be blind to ways films can perpetuate stereotypes and prejudices.

I'm all in favor of releasing controversial films onto DVD. Probably SOTS is less controversial than others. It helps to put these controversies into context, using DVD features like commentaries or introductions. Some suggested a Criterion or Disney Treasures release. I think those are good ideas. Whether or not SOTS is actually racist or not, or merely slightly stereotyping, is less interesting than some DVD content that could put the question into context (maybe even Ebert commenting alongside a reviewer who disagrees?).

 

[Doug Pyle]

this opportunity to vent about some past misfortunes

No. Not past. Recent. It's more comfortable to dismiss racism as a weakness our cultures distant past. That's Ebert's point and mine. Ebert is concerned about future kids suffering from unkind jokes or stereotyping prompted by tar baby images etc. If Ebert is not totally from Mars on his take on SOTS, then Disney could release it carefully, in context but not censored, not for children but for film-lovers who can view the film critically, enjoy it for what it is and learn something positive at the same time. Anyway, that's my vote.

 

[Brad Vautrinot]

Doug,

By past incidents, I obviously meant something that did not happen today. Yesterday is a past incident. But, enough with the semantics.

I just simply disagree with your and Ebert's take on this. I feel this is a film for all ages, including children, and not just for those who wish to view films critically instead of just for plain, old-fashioned entertainment value. I have not heard, seen, or read of one child who was harmed or had their feelings toward those different from them altered one iota from being exposed to SOTS. Peace.

 

[Steve O]

Song of the South is a wonderful family movie full of life lessons (the dangers of running away, how to employ reverse psychology, etc.). In the movie, Johnny builds relationships with Toby (a black boy on the plantation), Uncle Remus (who tells the stories and is the main father-figure to Johnny), and Ginny (a poor white neighbor). The lesson was then, as it is to me now, that true love and friendship span race and class. If Roger Ebert cannot see that, then he cannot see the good in anything. In addition to a great story and wonderfully developed live-action characters, the animated stories in SOTS are among the best Disney has ever produced -- which is one reason that Splash Mountain (the log flume ride at Walt Disney World in Orlando, Florida) still uses Uncle Remus' stories as its theme!!!
The Song of the South site has a great synopsis of the movie for anyone who is interested. The Webmaster (Christian Willis) also posted an in-depth analysis why this movie is not racist at all and why it absolutely should be released in the U.S. (it has always been readily available in Europe in the PAL video format on VHS -- copies are still plentiful). Here's the link:
http://www.songofthesouth.net/movie/overview/index.html
:star:
If you haven't already done so, please vote for SOTS on the Disney site and send your comments regarding why it should be brought to DVD in 2002!!!
{See first page of this thread for links}

 

[Brian W.]

Doug, I definitely see what you're saying, I just think that "Song of the South" in particular is not especially racist. I'll admit I haven't seen it since I was a kid, but if it could be released in the early 1970s, which it was, to no particular protest, I can't imagine it could be all that bad.

I'll admit I remember the film in no great detail, but I do know that I came away with absolutely no negative impressions of African-Americans AT ALL. I only came away with the feeling that the WHITE ADULTS in the film were a bunch of intolerant idiots, which is what the film was trying to get across.

I got into this argument with a friend of mine over the Indians in "Peter Pan." Racist, he called them. No, stereotypical, I said. Right, racist, he replied. No, I told him, I don't believe racist and stereotypical are exactly the same thing. The Indians in "Peter Pan" were smarter than anyone else in the film, and they were good and just. Were they portrayed in a stereotypical way? Yes. But since they were not portrayed in a negative way, was it racist? How so? I still hold that racism and stereotyping are two different things. They frequently go hand in hand -- but not always.

I am reminded of a "Seinfeld" episode where Elaine invites Jerry out to dinner with some Chinese friends of hers. "Oh, great, I love Chinese people," Jerry says.

"Excuse me? You 'love Chinese people'?" says Elaine. "Isn't that a little bit prejudiced?"

Jerry gives her a long, deadpan look, and says, "If I love them, how can it be prejudiced?"

 

[Lyle_JP]

which is one reason that Splash Mountain (the log flume ride at Walt Disney World in Orlando, Florida) still uses Uncle Remus' stories as its theme!!!

For the record, Splash Mountain was built first at the original Disney Park, Disneyland in Anaheim, California!
-Lyle J.P.

 

[Dick]

I'm amazed there haven't been hundreds of posts to this thread, considering how many times SONG OF THE SOUTH has been the subject of one. Hopefully, the posts are all being placed to the Disney site...?

 

[Sean Oneil]

Done.

 

[Dan_K]

I voted for Song of the South unedited. Damn this PC world we live in!

 

[Gunnar Syren]

it has always been readily available in Europe in the PAL video format on VHS

I must admit that this was news to me, but a quick check confirmed that it is indeed available. From Walt Disney Home Video.
I wonder why they think it's Ok to corrupt the minds of European children...

 

[Cees Alons]

Yes, it's readily available in Europe. I have a copy now for years (on VHS unfortunately), and have sent several to friends inside the US.
Steve,
You posted the link to the songofthesouth-site again in this same thread, but in my earlier post, on page 1, I pointed out that there is definitely something wrong with that site. The tape is not withdrawn from shops or whatever, and their price (> $120) seems much too high to me.
Their information is interesting, but I wouldn't buy from them. To bad they look rather commercial, instead of idealistic.
My advice would be: if you really want a tape (ouch), buy one from Amazon UK, £12.99, and have it converted yourself!
And now back to the topic of a fresh DVD release...
Cees

 

[Steve O]

Cess,
You're right, ... that price is a little steep. There are actually other places where it can be had for much less (in the $75 US range). Keep in mind that the price at the UK site for Amazon.com doesn't include shipping to the US or conversion to the NTSC format. Most sites selling this tape exclusively will convert it to NTSC and ship the PAL version in a new, unopened package. From what I've read on the copyright issues, a person can legally have the NTSC version as long as they have an unopened copy of the PAL version. If you buy from Amazon.com and open the PAL package to get it converted, you technically have two versions -- one legal and one illegal. So, by paying the higher amount, a person is actually paying for the service required to get a legal NTSC copy. I'm not a lawyer, but this is what I've read on the Internet regarding PAL-to-NTSC conversions.
If Disney would just release this gem on DVD here in the States, they could avoid this whole confusing issue.
- Steve
P.S. To repeat, ... vote for Song of the South!
P.P.S. I didn't know that the log flume ride started in Disneyland and that both parks still feature this ride. Just goes to show the double hypocrisy that Disney exhibits regarding this film. Thanks for the info!

 

[Mark-W]

I don't think most people in this forum agree with
racism or homophobia (at least I know the moderators
fully support the gay-themed threads I am always posting in).
And, I do understand what Ebert is saying, which
is why this film would be so easy to release on DVD
if it was only put in the proper context.
A little blurb, like the "forced trailers" with the
"push menu to skip" features, simply stating,
"This film is being presented as it was
originally created.
Since there are some who might find this material
offensive, Walt Disney Studios suggests that you watch
the featurette on this DVD regarding the controversy
surrounding this title and then deciding whether it
is appropriate for family viewing."
I realize that is over stating the obvious, but
hey folks...many people are idiots, as evidenced by
many people I over hear at the local cinema:
During Lord of the Rings
"Why are those people little?"
"Is that guy a wizard?"
"Are those humans?"
"Is that a bad guy?"
"Why are the elves tall? I thought they were supposed to be tiny"
"Where is the bad guy? Isn't he dead?"
"Where did that eagle come from?"
"Is the ring bad?"
And I hear ignorant people like this at just about
every film I go to. People who use itelligence and
information to make decisions about what they watch
are in the minority.
Disney needs to protect themselves from such people
by stating the obvious.
Again, they did this recently with Walt Disney's Treatures
Silly Symphonies, and should follow suit
with Song of The South, which as
previously mentioned, is no more offensive than
Gone with The Wind, which
is only rated PG, if not G, indicating
that the MPAA thinks it is "safe" for family viewing.
Mark

 

[Patrick McCart]

If Disney wants nothing to do with this film (which is the opinion they seem to have), they should license it to Anchor Bay or Criterion.

Criterion HAS expressed interest in releasing animation, but hasn't been presented with any titles yet.

 

[Tony G]

I wasn't going to reply to this, since I don't really have anything new to add, but since it was requested, and since I've been a participant in SOTS discussions before, I'll chime in. I sent my $.02 worth to the Disney link, requesting an unedited cut with a featurette explaining the historical significance.

I just can't agree with Doug's assessment that releasing a movie like this will foster racist sentiments in children today. I grew up in the south, surrounded by racism. Without going into (embarrassing) detail, let me just say that there are members of my family that are unashamed, unrepentant racists. I saw the movie as a child. Like Brian, I don't have the clearest memory of it, but the take-home message I remember is that the WHITES in the film are the losers, and that Uncle Remus is the role model. Sure, I'm aware of the whole tar baby imagery thing, but I don't buy that kids seeing this will see it and see in it a racist image - I'm sure I didn't, and I don't think I was a stupid kid.

I usually find Roger Ebert entertaining, though I certainly don't always agree with him. I didn't hear what he said about this, but if what is attributed to him here about this is accurate, I think his remarks are pretty pompous. What he's basically saying is that film students are smart enough to see the film, but the general public are idiots and couldn't handle it. Give me a break, Rog!

In my previous posts on this, I've said that there's no way Disney would release SOTS on DVD. I still think chances are slim, but the new "Treasures" series does give me some hope. I'd sure buy it, and would watch it with my children, ages 5 and 7, without hesitation. It would give me a great chance to have a talk with them about racism.

Tony

 

[Julian Lalor]

Song of the South was shown on the Australian Disney Channel as part of its New Year's Day line-up and will be repeated 5 times during the month. Without the least bit of controversy.
It appears that Disney's reluctance to take credit for this film is restricted to North America. I don't understand how releasing this film is going to incite racial hatred. It is a product of its time, as all films are, and of course it wouldn't have been made this way today, but nor would Gone With the Wind and no-one is going about banning or altering that film.

 

[Cees Alons]

Some of the posts seem to imply that we shouldn't try to be political correct anymore.
I don't think that's what meant by the posters, and if someone does, I don't agree.
Point is: SotS is politically correct. It doesn't have a racist content. It may have been a little careless to the handling of situations that were not felt totally abject by everyone at the time the movie was made. The tarr-baby can apparently be felt a bit dreadful, but if I still understand it well, has nothing whatsoever to do with ethnic notions in this film. Since I've read these stories as a child, and more recently, when we saw the movie in our house, it never occurred to me or my family it could mean something else. I didn't even know the expression existed with that despicable meaning. The film shows a social environment that's no longer ours. And rightfully so, no longer ours. That doesn't make it politically incorrect however.
What we can be against is: when decisions are made, based on alleged political correctness, while they are strechted way too far. IMO, that's the case here.
Of course one has to be careful not to hurt unnecessary and we have to take a sensitivity to social wrongs, that existed for too long, into a reasonable account. But we also have to show we grew up.
Cees

 

[Scott Leopold]

Song of the South is easily one of the best Disney films of all time. It's mine and my son's favorite Disney film, as a matter of fact. I've been sending Disney requests (email, snail-mail, and phoned in) for nearly three years now asking them to rerelease SOTS, so I of course added my positive comments to the webpage. I also nominated it for addition to the National Film Registry in 2002 (as I also did in 2001). Here's what I wrote:
"For addition to the National Film Registry in 2002, I would like to nominate Disney's Song of the South. This is a wonderfully touching family film that is in desperate need of some positive attention. Disney has all but abandoned the film to rot in their vaults. The American public has been deprived of this film since its last theatrical release in 1986. The only option one has to see this fantastic, Oscar-winning masterpiece (1948 best song for Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah, and an honorary award for James Baskett "for his able and heart-warming characterization of Uncle Remus, friend and story teller to the children of the world") is to purchase the overpriced Japanese laser-disc or the European PAL videotape (which then has to be converted to NTSC, which provides one with an inferior copy). While there is some misguided controversy over this film, it is an important piece of American cinematic history, and can be used as a valuable educational tool. I personally used it as an opportunity to explain to my then 9 year old son how important it is to accept people of all races, religions, and backgrounds. I put the film in the proper context for him, and instead of walking away with any negative perceptions of the characters, he was able to grasp the film's messages on love, friendship and family. It is also now his favorite Disney movie, despite being a low-quality conversion.
Song of the South is a classic, heartwarming tale, suitable for all families, as well as an important historical document. It deserves a spot on the National Film Registry, and needs to be preserved for future generations. Please consider it as one of the 25 additions to the Registry for this year.
Thank you,
Scott Leopold"
I think this would send an even more positive message to Disney than the webpage, especially if numerous people sent in their nominations and it was actually put on the list. You can send a nomination to:[email protected]
In the last couple years, I have had some amusing run-ins with people regarding SOTS. About 2 years ago, right after I purchased two PAL copies of SOTS (one for me, one for my parents), I asked one of the employees at the Disney store if there was a chance of it coming out on video. She looked at me with disgust and asked how I could even ask such a question. She told me how terrible and racist it was, and told me that if I had ever actually seen it I would know better than to ask. I informed her that I actually owned a copy and had watched it with my son earlier that day. I asked if she had ever seen it, and she replied that she hadn't. I told her ignorance was much more offensive than anything in the movie. That same summer, we went to Disney World. While standing in line for Splash Mountain, the kids in front of us asked their mom what that song was. She was thrilled to tell them "Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah!" and proceeded to sing it to them. They then asked her who the characters were, and what movie they came from. She refused to answer the first 5 or 6 times the kids asked, then finally told them to shut up, and said it wasn't nice to talk about them.

 

[David Lambert]

Scott, that sounds great. Can you provide a link to the page of the National Film Registry, so we can learn more about it?

I'll go do a web seach, and try to dig it up, though.