Smallville - Season 7 thread (1 Viewer)

[UngersPride]

Michael Rosenbaum as Lex is a very interesting, complex character.

Spike in Buffy was also a very interesting character.

Does this mean that being bad is more interesting than being good?

I wonder why.

Or is the journey in exploring why someone goes from being good to bad the interesting part?

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

While Chris' view of Clark might not be the best I whole heartedly agree that Lex, as played by Rosenbaum, is the best Lex ever filmed, even better than Gene Hackman IMO. Kevin Spacey did some in making a big screen Lex more hard core (the Kryptonite shard in the back scene always gets to me it's so cold) but Rosenbaum's is far and away the most layered, subtle and sympathetic of all the Lex's that have come before him.

Chris, I really don't think this is a spoiler given what this show is about but I wouldn't get my heart set on Clark going anywhere lol. No Clark = no Superman afterall.

 

[Chris]

I don't know, at this point, I haven't seen Lex do anything I could really qualify as bad.. but I've seen him do a lot of absolute good that didn't require super power. (OK, he did off/abandon his faked-up wife who tried to kill him, but I'm a pretty easy forgive on turn about)... I mean, outside of loaning damn near everyone string free money, constant forgiveness of other characters, and putting his efforts behind keeping his friends out of continuous trouble with the law, I just haven't seen him do anything I'd qualify as dasterdly.

Clark, on the other hand, so far has done numerous thiings that I can't think of how to describe but evil.. he knew that Red Kryptonite made him creepy, but he ends season 3 deciding that he's better off becoming evil and "feeling good" rather then face reality.. so who knows how many people were hurt in that.. including quite a few killed in police standoffs. Add to that his continual cover up, not just of his powers, but giving Lex bad information to corrupt the legitimate outcome, etc. etc.

Yeah, I see Lionel as evil, but at this point (8 eps into season 4) Clark strikes me as infinitely more evil and dangerous then Lex.. by big leaps.

Spike was an interesting character as one who redeemed himself, but he always had that creepy quality, and you always knew that on a moral scale, Buffy was the force of good. Clark, thus far, is not coming off as a force of real good.. just a force of nature. Yes, he rescued Lana, did this and that with his super powers.. but oddly, it's mostly mess cleanup.. he creates a situation wherein people will get hurt and then has to fix it.

I don't know, maybe it's partly because the writing and acting for Michael Rosenbaum is so much more interesting to watch.. but Clark's dialog and acting makes him seem far creepier (IMHO). I'm reminded of Lex telling him near the end of S3 that "what if the other guy is the good guy" And at this point, I agree with that. Then again, who knows, the rest of the season may start to see Lex turn truly evil or something.


Yeah, I get that.. but here I find this to be the best Lex written in any of the stories of Superman, and the Clark written into the series seems very cardboard and not nearly as representative of the force of good. So you have a neutral and at times very strongly loyal Lex who as often as not is the moving force of good at his own peril versus a kind of sulking, fairly creepy Clark. While it makes me appreciate Lex's character a great deal, it makes Clark's character look far less as the protagonist.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Maybe we should dig up the season 4 thread for this discussion. It would hard to argue, for instance, who's the good guy and who's the bad guy after what transpires in the subsequent three seasons.

 

[Chris]

*laugh* good point, I will do that I should just wait for the series to end and for the "everlasting" thread So, I'll stay out until I'm all caught up.

 

[TonyD]

chris do you know Superman as a comic character, also lex luthor?

not to spoil anything but lex is far from a hero inspite of how he seems on the show to you, he is the one who is deceitful, uses everyone for his own gain. etc.

i'm not sure what you're seeing on this show.

 

[Chris]

Yeah, I read the comic book series, have seen all the movies. But I'm treating the series like it's own entity, approaching it as though I don't know any of those things. Just saying, so far.. I haven't seen anything to build any belief in that.. but lots to make you believe things that were never aired out in any of the comics, save for the splinter series after "Superman is Dead" event.. It's a different approach, just not sure how I feel about it Though I do love the way Lex is written. Meanwhile Clark comes off like Damien.

 

[TonyD]

ok i get ya.

 

[Greg_S_H]

I never saw the things you're seeing in Clark, but Lex was definitely trying to be a good person early on. They really set it up better than Anakin Skywalker, because you really don't want to see this guy go bad.

 

[Patrick Sun]

Let's be fair, the Smallville version of Lex has been drawn through over 120+ hours of characterization, it's tough to make apt comparisons with the movie counterparts of the "same" character with less than 12 hours of cinematic treatment of Lex.

The biggest conceit about Smallville Lex is that although he wasn't "evil" from the get-go in his early to mid-20's (when we are introduced to him from season 1), he's had his share of crappy neglect in his family life from a domineering father, but he's always had this undercurrent of using his resources for less-than-legal means (33.1?), and isn't above using his resources to exact influence on lesser assets and ostacles. Lex has a thirst for power and information (but without a highly developed moral center to inhibit his impulses and thirst because Lionel raised Lex to be tough and ruthless in his pursuits).

The nice flip that "Smallville" did (to the Lex/Clark dynamic) was to develop Lex and Clark's friendship in the beginning, and then as their goals and ideals drifted apart (plus their romantic interludes with Lana), their antagonism levels escalated through the seasons. Eventually Lex and Clark/Superman will become sworn enemies, and having that level of animosity coming out of a former friendship lends a little more of the bittersweet "what could have been" flavor to their dynamic.

 

[Chris]

Patrick -

That's good to know, and should be a really great build as I hope to get through Season 5 tomorrow. (ah, the power of commercial free 7/8th time viewing to suck down shows)

 

[Jason_V]

I think we all have to remember there is a difference between what we the audience know and what the characters know. We're privy to every lie and "reason" given by Lex through the series. We know despite Lex promising to not investigate Clark, he continues to do so. We know the lie he put into motion with Lana in S6. We know he is intimately involved with 33.1. We know all these things as fact; Clark, Oliver, Lana and the others don't share their information and all they have is the piece of the puzzle they have.

Lex, I believe, honestly believes in what he's doing. The experiments he conducts in the dam at the end of S6 are done with the rationale America needs an army who can combat alien invaders. If he can make money off of them, so much the better. He so badly wants to be the hero, to escape his father's shadow and his reputation he's bought into the entire charade.

On the other hand, for the majority of the series, Clark has been outright lying to people, keeping secrets. Even though he lets some people in on that, they in turn have to keep lying for him. The secret is kept for a good reason, but people like Lana and Chloe don't necessarily know that early on. To them, he's just a liar. And to the cops, he's always involved in the bad stuff in Smallville.

The way Kryptonite affects him isn't his fault, yet he can't very well tell Lana "gee, it's red krypto and I get all funky" or "it's silver K". It's all part of the secret.

 

[Chris]

Edited and moved.

 

[Patrick Sun]

I would suggest posting to the appropriate season 5 and season 6 threads after watching all the episodes from those seasons.

 

[todd s]

Speaking of Jewish influences on the Superman character. The Vulcan salute was from what Rabbis do in a service. When Nimoy was a kid at temple. Their was a part of the service where the congregation turns around and the rabbi(s) would pray to the audience. He turned to look and saw them to the finger V which he used for Spock.

 

[Gary Seven]

Agreed... this comparison of Smallville's Luthor being more developed than those of the cinema is obvious for obvious reasons.

However, the "flip" as mentioned above is not unique to Smallville as it is derived from the Silver-Age Superboy series that explained the long rivalry of Superman and Lex. In it, Superboy and Lex Luthor were once good friends (not Clark and Lex).

 

[Chris]

Kara is pretty creepy looking. Something is wrong with her nose, it gives her a kind of morbid skull look :frowning:

So, more confusion about whether or not Jor El is a good guy or bad guy, though it's now pretty clear to me he's back to being the S1/2/3 bad guy. Does that make Kara the redemptive agent?

Now we know pretty much assuredly with the "we've taken over" lines, etc. that it was in fact the "US Department of Domestic Security" that was reaping the rewards of 33.1, Ares and other projects... and now they have the crystal, which we're unsure of what it will tell them. And, how far will the government go to protect Lex to prevent him from spilling the beans on their involvement?

The season sets up incredibly well for some great cloak & dagger between Lex trying to regain control of his empire and fight government turf wars over his projects, Clark having another voice to help figure out what really went on on Krypton.. what led to the civil war, etc. and Chloe still has to come to terms with her power (which seems like the worst power of all time... save someone by dying and then regenerating or something?)

Great start to the season, Lex finding Lana in China and seeking redemption and putting the power in her hands.. they continue to work on this show to make Lex redeemable.. love it.

The Clark not flying unless he's on RedK or other weird moments needs to end. It's becoming kind of ridiculous, enough so that even the dialog is poking fun at it weekly..

How did Lois leap in at the Planet and go straight to the top of the charts.. uh, did she ever really finish high school? Wasn't it just that Lex pulled some strings to get them to forget that she couldn't get through biology? And her over flighty-ness and tabloid journalism suddenly, with the introduction of a new character make her the star reporter... this is a story line that could have been a lot better if Lois had come to admire and follow Chloe's standard of practices and her methods.. here Chloe does all the school work, has that pleading case with Carrie Fischer on how she will work harder then anyone else, and Lois just leaps to the top with nothing.. and did Lois ever fix the fact that in Season 3 she was also almost illiterate, having admitted she barely read and had trouble writing without incredible spelling errors and poor grammar?


EDIT: One thing, though.. and maybe it's just from watching all the seasons in a smash of a hurry... does anyone else find it really creepy that Supergirl is "Kara" when the weird meteor freak from Season 3 who also proclaimed herself to be supergirl who also went by the name "Kara" ...

Almost makes you re-think some of those episodes...

 

[Chris]

Yeah, actually.. it seems like they weren't sure they could get a contract with her done and so they gave it the either/or option. But the way this played out is kind of strange. I didn't take her for nearly that smart. More then that, how the heck did she get inside his top secret lab and steal a body without anyone noticing? Lex was having her followed all the time, you'd think it'd be hard to carry around a 5'6 cadaver clone without someone noticing as you left the secret lab.. Add to that the clearly visible camera in the alley, the time it would have taken her to unbag the body, dress it, get it inserted into the car and strapped in, and then who was the guy in the delivery van who also had to be involved in the conspiracy / coverup? Lots of questions on Lana's end.

I'm at a loss for how that will play all the way out. But could be interesting.

 

[Gary Seven]

Frankly, I think Kara is pretty hot. Though I didn't know they also pierced belly buttons on Krypton.

In the comics, Kara is Supergirl's name. I assume they used it in season 3 as a wink to the audience without knowing that they would actually bring the Supergirl character into season seven.

 

[Patrick Sun]

Kara was pretty careless in showing off super-speed in front of Lana.

Not sure if I can handle the happy Clana couple, so I predict some bumps in their relationship road.

Lex finally finds his angel, but what will his suspicions bring onto the Kent Kousins?

Funny to see Chloe's reaction to Jimmy looking longingly at Kara.

The freaks of the week were practically an after-thought, but I like how Kara dealt with them, took no prisoners.