Harman Kardon AVR 520 review (1 Viewer)

[Woo Jae]

Thanks for the replies... Glad to know that I am not insane for having the volume anywhere between -45 to -15 dbs... Haven't really calibrated my room because:
1. Too lazy to do it right - I have a radioshack analog spl meter and tripod, but I just used the EZ set...
2. Busy watching movies and anime.
By the way - I have pretty poor AM reception in my area. Any suggestions on what to use to receive these weak AM signals? Currently, I am using a 75ohm adapter and a FM ribbon antenna for FM (much better than what comes with the receivers, but not really).
Thanks in advance for the replies...

 

[Daryl L]

Kriss Keen,

All you'll need to do in the future to upgrade to a 7.1 setup is to use a audio patch cable as jumpers from the SBL & SBR PreOuts to the Left & Right Main-In jacks then connect your 2 back surround speakers the the 520's Left & Right speaker binding posts.

If you have an old DPL receiver with L&R Preouts/MainIns and While using only 5.1 speakers you could use you old receiver for DD-EX. Just connect the 520's Left and Right Surround preouts(or speaker outputs if it dont have preout/mainins) to the old receivers L&R CD or Tape jacks(or any L&R jack input will do. Set the old receiver to Dolby 3ch Prologic. Connect your Left, Right and Center Surround speakers to the old receivers Front L/C/R speakers outputs. It will break the L&R surround signal into 3 surround signal. This is how DD-EX creates a rear center in a DD-EX system but without a second receiver. It uses old DPL processing.

Woo Jae,

-35 sounds normal. As Charles said, each brand sets their volume differently. I don't have the 520, I have the 8000 but depending on the source and the sound processing chosen I range between -40 to -25 normaly. Just be sure to calibrate your speaker output levels. Best done with a Radio Shack SPL meter and a dvd test disc If you have or can get them.

 

[Daryl L]

Woo Jae,

LOL, we posted at same time. Not sure how the 520 ezset calibrates but ezset on mine calibrates to 70bd instead of 75db. So calibrating to 75db using the SPL meter could let you use it at a slightly lower volume if your ezset does like mine.

 

[MikeRP]

Daryl:

I should have figured you be out there checking the posts out!

Thanks for giving the real scoop on DD-EX. I'm still debating the 520 - not because I don't like it but because the missed opportunity on a 525.

I rented Dragonfly last night and the sound was great even just with DTS and 5.1. The H/K really handles the highs and lows wonderfully. Sometimes I really wonder if I'll really put in a 7.1 system. But, I don't want to loose the option.

I'm hoping H/K announces specs and cost on the 525 before I have to take the 520 back.

Still undecided in Ohio........

Mike

 

[Kris Keen]

thanks understood, guess that solves 2 problems! cheers

 

[ErichH]

Popped in an old Steve Winwood CD and listened in Stereo at -12 and then -8 and up to -6 for 2 tracks. Very little compression at high volume. Not bad at all. After my ears calmed down , I tried an older DTS disc, Dantes Peak, and really liked the sound. Still hearing `further in' on this receiver.

I have a hole on my left side(the room has a skew in one corner and the left rear is next to a door opening) and always need to bump LF and LR up 1db. On the old receivers it was around 2 and I could never get it just right. For some reason, the HK seems to be perfect at 1. I like the memory difference between DTS-DD-ProLogic-etc (channel volumes) Nice feature for me. My satellite feed is always to hot on the sub, and this solves that.

I still feel great about this box. Meets my warm on the top requirements. My friends B&K307 is my reference for what I want, and the HK is a nice step in that direction. I could find fault with something, but my 180 DVD collection has maby 6 DVDs that are 6.1 channel encoded and it seems insane to need rear surrounds for maby 12-20 hours a year that I might want to hear it that way.

That said, If I ever get the B&K, I'm shure those 2 extra sets of binding posts would inspire me.

Best To All

Eric

 

[Jim J]

What Daryl states about a Pseudo-EX is true. I'm doing it myself.

The issue that arises with the 520 is this:

You have a rear center channel signal generated by the auxillary DPL processor, and another rear channel signal(s) generated by the 520's L7 and DTS processing (if you set to 6/7.1).

You need to switch between them. (or put multiple speakers/amps)

If you have a DPL processor that provides pre-outs, it is easy enough to send the L/R main signals from that, back into the main-ins for the l/r surrounds on the 520. Put the DPL proc into stereo and you have a loop. no problem.

If you use say, an integrated amp to drive the rears, you'd have your switching mechanism.

run the center ouput of the DPL proc into an input, say CD on the integrated. run the l/r back from the 520 into another input say, aux. will work. This is what I plan. maybe.

this is what I did instead, since I only had a DPL receiver with Main-in and pre-out. I couldn't use that as switch-amp since I needed it for the DPL3 proceesing. but I could use the amps separately.

I ran the l/r back from 520 to the unused TAPE input on the 520. I ran the center from my dolby3 proc to the unused CD input on the 520. I ran Zone 2 pre-outs to the available amp. So as you see I use the multi-room feature to switch between rear surround sources. crazy, but it worked

So Now a question, as most of this is a little cumbersome, either configuration.

It seems it would be easiest just to leave the pseudo-ex scheme in place regardless the processing. Put the 520 into 5.1, so DTS 5.1, Logic7 5.1 all go thru the matrix to get my '6.1'

How much different will that sound, from the original 6 channel processing?

 

[MikeRP]

Wow Jim:

That's deep. Way deep. But, I'm extremely intrigued. I think the great thing about the 520 is the flexibility of the system. I like the ability of the system to remember my settings on the different surround formats with any of the different sources(Cd, DVD, etc).

Help me - you think I should wait on the 525 or stick with the 520 for my needs - which won't go beyond 5.1 for a while?

I'm also interested in Daryl's and other opinions on the sound.

Mike

 

[Jim J]

Well, I too thought I wouldn't be going beyond 6.1 for a while either. Then I ended getting a deal on six identical speakers, so here I am. Luckily I have a dedicated room (for the most part)

I sort of choose the 520 because it was the best deal available to me with the ability to use Amex membership miles. I paid for most of it using those They were burning a hole in my pocket. Anyway, I'm quite happy with my choice.

To be honest, I somehow missed the fact that the 520 didn't have DD-EX, which was on my 'like-to-have' list.

Your choice is difficult. The things to gain by waiting: getting that DD-EX, Logic7 on all Digital signals, better remote?, maybe more inputs. I've sort of run out of opticals.

Here is another esoteric idea I came up with: Sharing inputs. I may be putting my LD player and X-Box on Video 2. X-Box uses the component input and the optical 2. the LD player uses the composite vid and the analog.

I too really like all its features, and sound. I like the start-up volume feature, display dimming. I only wish it applied to all the little indicators too. I dimmed those by applying some dark plastic (shade type) material over those parts. dims them way down (almost too much actually).

For me, with using a DVD player as cd player, I like how I can set different processing for DD and PCM from the same source. DD2.0 set to DPLII - Movie (which is necessary), then I can set PCM to do L7 or DPLII - music or whatever. I think channel levels can be different too.

Here's something to help make the decision more difficult: eCost.com has some 520s for $619, $15 handling, free ground.

 

[Doug Brewster]

Re: avr520's volume level:

Increase it until someone in the room has the slightest trickle of fluid emitted from their ears, then decrease slightly. Beat until smooth and then bake at 350 degrees for 30 minutes.

Don't worry about the numbers.

 

[Daryl L]

Jim,
Dang Dude! Your setup is so complex you lost me on your second line LOL.

How much different will that sound, from the original 6 channel processing?

Well. If your using a 2nd DPL receiver in Dolby 3 channel Prologic for a 6.1 setup and If the source material will be DD5.1/DD-EX it will sound the same as if you actually had DD-EX on the 520 because DD-EX uses the same processing for creating the rear center.
If the source material is DTS5.1/DTS-ES Matrix/Discrete, It should sound good but probably not the same as if the 520 actually had DTS-ES Matrix/Discrete decoding. The reason is DTS uses Neo6 to create it's rear center from DTS-ES material. Neo6 works a little different than DPL at creating a center from L/R stereo.
I personaly think the surround field of DTS-ES Matrix sound more balanced than DD-EX(or THX-EX). But thats my personal opinion.
Logic 7 using a 2nd DPL receiver? Hmmm. It will probably sound more enveloping since your adding sound behind you. This is a tough question to answer.
Here's a link to info about hooking up a 2nd DPL receiver for Pseudo Surround EX with a drawing.
Pseudo EX explained

 

[Jim J]

Yes, its really pretty silly. I'm surprised anybody can follow what I wrote.

Agreed about the DD processing. Understood about DTS and L7. I didn't know that about DTS-ES, interesting.

Okay, here is the next interesting thing. I have recently come into possession of a Fosgate Model 2 processor to do my pseudo-ex. A couple of issues.

- It has DPL of course, but no Dolby3. I'm wondering if I should fold the surround info into the mains, as not to loose anything.

- There are a few other processing modes, one of them might do less center steering than dpl. I'm trying to figure out a way to evaluate this

- I don't have a manual

- this model also has BACK l/r outputs, in addition to the surround l/r. I don't know what is going back there

- I have a headache now

 

[Daryl L]

- I have a headache now

That's funny. I wonder why?
Sorry everyone. I had to edit my last post. The part about Neo6 used with DTS-ES matrix material only duplicating the L/R surrounds mono info to the rear surround(s) was incorrect. I have an old Rocktron Circle Surround decoder and confused my thinking of Neo6's seperation process with Circle Surrounds center channel subtraction process as it is applied in Audio Outlaws new pre/pro for rear channel production coupled with DPL2. My apologies Jim if I confused you.
I'm not familiar with the Fosgate Model 2 but I got a feeling the back L/R might be a option for adding Direct radiating speakers as an option of switchiong between Direct rears or Dipole sides or vise versa. Just a wild guess I really don't know.
If you did want to try the Fosgate Model 2 using DPL. Yes I would guess you would want to loop the surrounds back to the mains so not to loose anything directed by DPL to those channels. Don't know how though. Don't you just love these crazy brainstorming ideas? LOL!
Another Pseudo-EX explanation Link

 

[Daryl L]

MikeRP,

Help me - you think I should wait on the 525 or stick with the 520 for my needs - which won't go beyond 5.1 for a while?

I honestly couldn't say. Plus I normally never suggest a model(unless they can wait and it's near new release dates to see of any significant changes as with Dawn at AVSforum, She's buying piece by piece gradually) or a brand to a person. I just advise on their operation if I know the answers and try to supply a link to similar info.

 

[Jim J]

If you did want to try the Fosgate Model 2 using DPL. Yes I would guess you would want to loop the surrounds back to the mains so not to loose anything directed by DPL to those channels. Don't know how though. Don't you just love these crazy brainstorming ideas? LOL!

I have it in the mix now. I could just use a 'Y' cable to combine the signals together before it gets to the amp. However, in digging to try to find any info on this unit I ran across a 3 year old thread in the newsgroups titled 'clarify DolbyEX'. I haven't read the 200odd posts yet; A lot of crap-slinging in there. Anyway, someone claims that a conversation with a dolby engineer indicated that they actually use full dolby pro*logic decoding, not dolby3 at the theaters. They discard the out of phase signal that the dpl processing extracts. I'm not sure if its true, or if I like that idea.

I just wish I could figure out how to operate this unit better...

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Jim- I came across a guy who also said that: that in a normal DD EX setup, that the "rear" info from the decoding the 2 rear surrounds as 2 "front" channels, that that info is thrown away. To be honest, about a year ago I got really interested in all this. It's a "hobby" after all!
I tried a Pioneer SP-91D, Shure HTS 5300, Sony SDP-E800, Sony SDP-777ES, Yamaha DSR-70 and 100 Pro's.
All of them do regular DPL. Only the Pioneer had "Dolby 3 channel logic." I couldn't tell the difference.
I have a *theory* that if a soundtrack is specifically encoded for DD EX (and maybe even DTS-ES matrix too), that there actually might be no out of phase info in the surrounds anyway.
Out of all those above, I ended up keeping the Shure, because it has, i) DPL mode in addition to a "3 channel stereo" mode that I use for "std" DD/DTS discs, ii) adjustable outputs for each channel (to do this method absolutely correctly, means that the 2 surround channels have to be the same volume, so you have to have the means to change their levels, if you need to, *after* the DPL processing, and, iii) a visual indication of where the info is being sent, so you can actually see on the unit when the rear center (the "front" center on the unit!) is actually being used.
The Sony SDP-E800 had ii, but it was too noisy. The Yamaha DSR-100 Pro had iii, but only the Shure had them all.
Somewhere on the dvdfile site is an actual review of a pseudo EX setup with the Shure.

 

[Daryl L]

Kevin,

I have a *theory* that if a soundtrack is specifically encoded for DD EX (and maybe even DTS-ES matrix too), that there actually might be no out of phase info in the surrounds anyway.

Good point. I also seem to remember reading somewhere awhile back were the out of phase info was disgarded when using dpl to create surround EX.
Jim,
You may not need to loop the rears back into the mains signal. But doing so could prove a better balance accross the surround field. Remember that DPL's weakness was the frontal sounstage collapsing into the center channel. Thats why non-EX 5.1 materials surround field at times seems center rear dominant. Looping the L/R rears out of phase info of the Fosgates rears back into the mains could offset the collapsing problem giving more sound to the side surrounds. You never know until you try. Again, I warn you I'm just brainstorming. So RUN, RUN, RUN for your life!

 

[Jim J]

this is fun. I think.

There is someone on eBay with one of these model2s including manual. I wrote him asking if he could copy? can't hurt to ask right?

This is also very simmilar to H/Ks AVP1 or AVP1A. or AVP2.

I wish I could find the remote codes too.

I'm thinking one of the other processing modes besides DPL on this unit will give me less center dominance. Just have to figure out which one it is...

 

[Daryl L]

Well, I just thought about it. If the rear signal is out of phase it probably would not help if it is looped back into the mains. Thats probably why theaters just throw it away so to speak. Now I see why Kevin said he noticed no difference between DPL and Dolby3 as rear channel decoding. I'm really not sure. I've never tried it and have no 2nd receiver to test with. I could test with the Circle Surround decoder but thats a totally different decoding scheme. It doesn't collapse into the center as DPL does. Plus, my nurse would wanna kill me asking her to roll my entertainment stand out and start rewiring LOL.

 

[DonJ]

Kevin C Brown

if you want to see a L7 encoded dvd just pick up LOTR. it says L7 right on back.