After market power cord. Is it worth it? (1 Viewer)

[Alan Pummill]

The answer is YES...I have a golden ear!! I could tell the difference.

Hop on a plane tomorrow and I'll even buy you dinner!! And I'll even furnish the cords. I bet you I could get well over 90% correct!!!

Trust your ears!!

 

[Jeff Gatie]

Don't kid. I can't make it tomorrow but how's next month sound? I spend the money I don't spend on tweeks on airfare and I have a few extra miles saved up. But, I get to furnish the $20 cords, that's the rules.

 

[Alan Pummill]

Looking forward to it!!

 

[Chu Gai]

Gee, this sounds so much like what they do at AA. Step 1 is always the most difficult, admission :} Have fun with the blind tests.

 

[Philip Hamm]

There's an old saying "A fool and his money are soon parted". That is the mantra of audiophile tweek selling charlatains.I know better. My ears and my brain fool me.

 

[Alan Pummill]

I'm glad I don't have your ears or your brain!!

 

[Jeff Gatie]

The feeling is mutual, as well as me not having your credit card bills.

 

[Alan Pummill]

That's OK "Phillip"?? I paid cash!!

 

[Phil A]

Power cords when built properly can act as filters of unwanted noise traveling along with the AC. My understanding is that thre are multiple ways of doing this and each company has it own proprietary method. In theory, if all they did was act as AC noise filters each manufacturer's cord should sound the same on different pieces of equipment. However, manuf. have different power supply designs on their equipment and there is also the problem of how the power grid works:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/power.htm

Much like the same video signal is carried by the cable company, that does not mean every cable customer receives the identical quality of signal.

What have I found from real world experience:

For most home theater set-ups it probably won't make much difference. Most are passable to mediocre or dreadful at quality music playback (I have lots of experience doing set-ups/installs) vs. a quality music only system. That does not mean they won't do great HT or one can't enjoy music on them. Most people think their system is wonderful. There are far too many other issues with the implementation of a HT system to worry about a power cord.

For music systems, they can make a nice difference but should not be a first priority. A much better bang for the buck is running a few extra circuits for your system with the power amp on its own circuit and separating analog and digital equipment. The way equipment is designed is likely to be a bigger cause of concern, not that they are design flaws but that's just how they were designed.

Next is the marketing hype of the cord manuf. To set the record straight, I make my own stuff (won't tell what I currently use) but have name brand cords I bought in the old days. For a 5-6 yr. period when I had a friend working at a high end shop, I had the opportunity to bring in things and A/B them vs. name brand expensive stuff (for power cords - those up to around $1k retail) and also borrow things and bring them home. I'd guess that in 80% of the cases Belden 19364 with good connectors (e.g. Hubbell, Marinco) were nearly as good as many more expensive things and better than many as well. It costs about $350 for a 250 ft. spool of it or less than $1.50 ft. For good connectors it costs perhaps $15-30 for an IEC and plug. So for $25-40 you too can have a nice audiophile quality cord. If you dont want to buy a whole spook, places like diycable.com sell it for $2.25/ft. If you don't need the cord for a power amp then you can go to places like newark.com and stock no. 37F3307 and get a 3-conductor 16 ga. cord with an IEC for about $6 that just needs a plug. If you want to be anal and cut off the IEC and add a better one your could do that too. Have good quality stuff and don't run up those charge bills

 

[Chu Gai]

How can a PC, 'properly built', filter noise without the addition of circuitry, Phil?

 

[Phil A]

Chu, it is my understanding they can use various methods to do this, including but not limited to - the use of LCR filters, multi-strand interweaved networks, copper or silver coated copper or fine silver wire of varying gauges. From round to square to flat ribbons, with different dielectric coatings consisting of anything from cheap plastics to Teflon, to air, and with various filler materials to damp vibrations, shielding mat'ls, etc.

My post was as much about getting into the economics of that $200 retail power cord vs. getting into more debates about what they can or can't do. That $200 cord probably cost the retailer somewhere in the range of $100-120. Then you need to figure what chains are needed to get the cord to the retail level, including the cost of manuf., distributing, marketing, etc. Yes the manuf. can get wire or connectors at better prices than the consumer but what gets missed in these debates that can get heated is what one is getting for that $200. My point with regard to all that is that you may be getting something that can be built for perhaps around $25 with not all that much trouble or knowledge that may be substantially similar in quality. I am content to let others have fun as to whether they think it all makes a difference or not. I'm not here to sway anyone's opinion one way or the other. I enjoy my stuff and this a hobby.

 

[Alan Pummill]

Great post Phil. I admire people that have the DIY skills that you exhibit. It is hard to imagine that some PC's go for thousands of dollars...diminishing return, I think!!

 

[Phil A]

Alan, believe me it takes very little skill to build a power cord. If you can strip wires and use a screwdriver and continuity tester like a multi-meter, that's all you need. If you look at the IEC and Plug they each have 3 holes and three prongs respectively. The configuration is like below:

* *
*

If you take out you power cord and go to many Radio Shack's they will even take out a meter and show you how to test that your cord is wired properly.

I have no patience (and better things to do) for threads that tend to get nasty and silly over a hobby (which should be enjoyed and I'm content to let anyone enjoy their equipment in the manner they see fit) and contain in many cases opinions from people who have limited or no experience on the issue. Theories are OK but if Columbus believed that the world would still be flat.

Jeff and Alan by all means let us know what your findings are. I find it far more interesting and of useful value to know what someone did with what equipment and their results vs. getting theory w/o experience.

 

[Chu Gai]

With the exception of adding circuitry as you indicated in the LCR networks, the rest doesn't do anything with respect to noise. Why you could just buy a $15 shielded Belden and hook it up to any run of the mill surge protector with EMI/RFI filtering and do it for a fraction. And as has been pointed out many times Phil, Erasthones not only knew the world was round but calculated its circumferance over a millenium before Columbus. What can one say other than it pays to stay in school!

BTW Alan, do you really think those 'plants' in back of your speakers is really doing enough to deal with the back waves from the speakers?

 

[Phil A]

The problem with surge protection for many but not all of such devices is typcially with power amps that are trying to put out large amts. of voltage being plugged into a device that is looking to clamp down on voltage spikes. They can rob many power amps of their dynamics. I've heard many nice expensive amps sound like crap. Many of the better designed amps have power line conditioning built in.

The worst offense I think in the selling of expensive power cords is the over-hyped marketing. It is not that they won't sould better on certain systems depending on components and the condition of the power itself. There was a post almost 2 yrs. ago on Audio Asylum about a company (fairly well known name by audiophiles but not the most common or likely known by most here) who was selling I think a $400 power cord advertised as being for digital components. Apparently someone took it apart and found it was something available from a European distributor for lots less (I think like $35).

 

[Alan Pummill]

Thanks for asking. When we moved to this house a while back, I knew that this room would be a challenge acoustically, especially with maggies. I have a wide selection of acoustic tools that I have been working with. Sonex panels, ASC tube traps, Michael Green room tunes and floor standing PZC's, and of course the fake ficus trees.

Currently my front wall employes MG room tunes, a Sonex panel, and the trees. Sounds pretty good with the tube traps behind the listener. I have thought about a RPG BAD panel(s) for in between the speakers on the front wall. It is a work in process!!

 

[Chu Gai]

If that's the concern Phil, then you go for a surge protector designed to have a heavy duty office copier plugged into it.

 

[Chu Gai]

You know Alan, this might be a good time to spring for a calibrated mic and a software program to get the maximum benefit from your ancillary purchases.

 

[Nick V]

Why is it that these threads always end up with such a vindictive, antagonistic tone.

I bet you're going to tell me that my Sound Application CF-XE didn't remove any of the noise from my system either. How is it that the slighly audible hiss coming from my ribbon tweeters is now almost completely muted since the addition of this line conditioner to my system?

I would measure it, and "prove" it to you but I'm sure everyone would question the scientific viability of my testing.

What do the people here think of Bybee filters as most of my power cords have bybees incorporated. These bybee networks along with quality pure silver interconnects and very good quality braided silver coated copper cryo treated speaker cables have all made VERY substantial improvements in my 2 channel/HT hybrid system.

I don't understand why some people have to prove their points several thousand times.

Also as far as blind testing is concerned, there are many people who believe that psychoacoustically, when you are placed under duress and are stressing to hear a difference, that not only will you not hear a discenable difference, but that your system will not sound as good as you remember.

When was the last time that you enjoyed your system under these conditions?

A good way of doing it is placing a new component in your system for several hours or days, then place whatever you were using before hand back into your system. Often times it is easier to hear the scale of the difference once you realize what you're missing.

These are all matters of subjective opinion, yet people pass their opinion off as fact all too often.

 

[Jeff Gatie]

Yeah, it really is. Double blind tests prove this all the time.