After all my auditioning.....Klipsch it is (1 Viewer)

[Phil Mays]

Chris,
Don't take me wrong, I'm a loyal owner of Klipsch. What was the B & W speakers being driven by?
I ask this because I auditioned the B & W 802's on a Denon 5800 that sounded weak and lacking. We then drove them with a Yamaha 200 wpc amp (certainly a good amp but not a top line amp) and they sounded incredible. It actually made me change my mind from the purchase of the 5800 and go with external amps on a onkyo unit. Couldn't be happier.
BTW, I would have those B & W's in a minute if I could lay down $8,000 for a pair.
Until then I will be more than pleased (excited )with my Klipsch setup.
Phil

 

[Chris Tabor]

It was a separates setup I don't remember what it was though. Same with the paradigms at the other dealer. They were all on high dollar separates systems.

 

[Josh Lowe]

You're comparing apples to oranges it doesn't work that way. But are you saying that britney isn't the best in the eyes of whoever is buying her albums. Careful now this is where this whole argument has been going.

Right, then Bose is the best speaker because it sounds the best to the ears of those who buy them. If you think that's true then sell all your gear immediately.

Klipsch makes a great speaker. I'm about to go see if my local Tweeter/Hifi Buys has any of the reference series in stock. But basing a "what's the best speaker" argument on sales numbers is way off base.

 

[Bhagi Katbamna]

I don't actually own horn speakers(I own PSBs) but understand their appeal.

 

[Arron H]

Chris,
I guess I won't get to hear that VMPS review from you after all Congratulations on your choice and enjoy your speakers.

 

[Chris Tabor]

Josh, maybe to the people that own bose they are the best. To me no way but to them then maybe. Or they haven't heard the others like probably so many on here. And who's arguing about whats the best speaker???? I'm defending my decision thats all. I never claimed klipsch to be the best speaker. But of all the ones I heard they were the best. Thats why I bought them plain and simple. Go to www.audioreview.com and see the ratings on klipsch speakers by there owners. If they are sooooo harsh then why do so many enjoy them. This all started with childish remarks like....."im deaf to high frequencies" and "I must have lost my sense of hearing" .... and so on. Hey, if some of you don't like these SO WHAT. I DO and thats that. Enjoy your *****"in my opinion"*****(neon lights) underperforming, overpriced, lack of highs, lack of bass speakers.

 

[Saurav]

Chris Tsutsui,

When our ears listen to a wide dynamic range like the one that the Klipsch RF7 offers, our ears "adapt" to that type of exaggerated sound. When the highs are louder than the mids, our ears/hearing also adapts to the loudness and it becomes less of a nuisance.

You're confusing two issues here. What does wide dynamic range have to do with the highs being louder than the mids? They are two entirely different issues - one is dynamic range, one is frequency response. Sure, the frequency response of a certain speaker may have exaggerated highs or lows or anything, and that could very easily sound unpleasant. However, I don't believe there is any such thing as exaggerated dynamic range. Go listen to a live unamplified drumkit played by an energetic drummer, and then listen to a stereo playing back the same thing. IMO, the best stereos can hope to just get close to the dynamics of the real instrument. Most fail woefully. Ditto for solo piano - many can reproduce the tone of the piano very well, and if you close your eyes the image of the piano is centered very solidly between your speakers, but the size of the piano - nope. It still sounds like a 3' high piano, not a real piano. So it feels like it's in your room, but it doesn't feel like a full-size instrument.

I have never heard any system that sounds more dynamic than the real instrument, so I don't believe anything can have exaggerated dynamics.

Your argument about our ears getting accustomed to the sound is a valid one. IMO, it applies both ways - once you get used to the softer dynamics of a cone/dome speaker, you find it hard to adjust to the more realistic dynamic portrayal of a faster and more dynamic speaker. Of course, many horns have bigger frequency response errors than cone/done speakers, so that certainly becomes a factor. However, speaking only of dynamics, it could just as easily be argued that once you've becomes used to the softened dynamics of conventional speakers, you don't like hearing more realistic dynamics. That doesn't mean that the softer dynamics are better either.

 

[Josh Lowe]

Chris Tabor wrote:

wouldn't it be safe to say the majority prefer klipsch therefore the majority is correct? Isn't this how everything works? Maybe its your ears that are hearing the muddled, underperforming, lack of bass, overpriced, stuck with finding one sweet spot for good sound, and muffled highs as good speakers when the majority knows what sounds best!!!

Your words, not mine. If the majority rules on what sounds best, then why did you not buy Bose?

I like Klipsch speakers. I just think you're being asinine.

 

[Neil Joseph]

It always amazes me how people take things so seriously over some pieces of equipment. Tone it down and re-read the rules.

 

[Chris Tabor]

Josh its no more rediculous of the accusations they are making that was the whole point. And also, I said the majority than own and "prefer" them. I'm sure plenty of bose owners are wanting there money back. And josh after your last remark I could care less what you think, I won't even acknowledge your posts anymore. Grow up and worry about something a little more important than how you "think" i'm acting. MOVE ON

 

[Garrett Lundy]

I think I will go out and buy a pair of Krell LAT-1's. I have never heard these speakers, but since they cost $40,000.00/pair, then they must be the best.

 

[Manuel Delaflor]

John,

If we were looking at cars, the Klipschs would be the Corvettes and Vipers and the VMPS would be the Lamboghinis and Ferrarris.

Lol! Oh, no... Not at all!!!

VMPS and Klipsch will be more like Corvette and Mustangs, Lambos and Ferraris would be German Physiks or Wilson Audio!

Let's keep things in perspective

 

[RichardMA]

Klipsch = joke. Metal "coloured" polypro drivers instead
of real metal. They are cheaply made, like Paradigm speakers.

 

[John A. Casler]

Lol! Oh, no... Not at all!!! VMPS and Klipsch will be more like Corvette and Mustangs, Lambos and Ferraris would be German Physiks or Wilson Audio!
Let's keep things in perspective

Hi Manny,
I wasn't talking about "pricing" I was talking about performance.
The German Physiks and Wilsons have nothing on the VMPS line. Plenty of Wilson customers have been making the switch.
In fact at the last CES in Las Vegas, the RM40 bested some of the $40,000 and $50,000 systems for the "Best of Show" designation.
Maybe my Pantera might have made a better symbol for the VMPS. High end performance with reasonable cost.
So we have;
Klipsch - Corvette
VMPS - Pantera
Wilsons - Ferrarri
German Physiks - Lamborghini
I used to race mine so let me assure you, I had absolutely no trouble with the TurboPorsches, Ferrarris, Lambos, Lotus, and Vectors. (only took 2nd in my first race, after that the only time I saw them was in the pits, and in my rearview mirror)
And I would put the VMPS RM40 TRT with Dual Larger SUBs against any speaker system built under $70,000. and it cost less than 1/10th that. (in any room under 30x30x15)
Bet I get some "smack talk" out of this one. When will I ever learn?
All the best,
John

 

[Manuel Delaflor]

DeTomaso Pantera...
One of my dream cars of all times.

 

[Manuel Delaflor]

Most Klipsch "bashers" tend to focus on subjective points of view or knowledge about how some bad designed horns can color the sound.
I believe that the "harsh" sound is a result of being accustomed to "muddy" sound of conventional speakers. Also, that the "harshness" is not because the exageration of some frequencies, which appear to be a consensual believe, but because of the better dynamics associated with Horns.
I just searched the Net for frequency response graphs for Klipsch speakers, and I have yet to find some in which the "harsh" sound is in the graph. Some links:
Link Removed
Lots of speakers
RP5
Cornwalls (I already gave this link in this thread)
So, if the "harshness" is not in their frequency response... it should be in the dynamics, at least that is my personal conclusion so far...
And as Saurav exposes with an impeccable and crude logic... there cannot be something like "exaggerated dynamics"!
Hmm.. just to end this post... I don't believe Klipsch's are the best speakers in the world, I just believe that they are the most affordable way to enter the world of Horn speakers...

 

[Michael R Price]

Harshness isn't always due to a frequency response problem; it could be distortion in the upper midrange and treble, or compression, or off-axis response problems. But I don't see how any of those possibilities would be due to horn loading in and of itself. It's strange. Then again don't most speakers have response dips in the 2-3KHz range anyway?

My thought is that Klipsch spends more money on making their drivers capable of dynamics and high output, and thus sacrifices the more "refined" sound they seem to lack. But as of yet, I don't understand what makes a speaker sound refined, or smooth.

Can you get used to a "muddy" sound and then think that reality is "harsh"? I don't know about that.

Exaggerated dynamics? Hah. But I'd probably enjoy it anyway.

 

[Walt N]

Klipsch = joke. Metal "coloured" polypro drivers instead of real metal. They are cheaply made, like Paradigm speakers.

Absolutely not true. Klipsch Ref driver cones are damped magnesium/aluminum alloy with non-resonating and strong poly/glass fiber baskets and are quite good. Paradigm speakers contain equally fine components and both share very good build quality for the money spent. I don't care for either Klipsch nor Paradigm speakers, but let's not get carried away here!

 

[Manuel Delaflor]

Michael,

Can you get used to a "muddy" sound and then think that reality is "harsh"? I don't know about that.

I think yes. One just need to go to a live performance, sit preferably close to the instruments, close the eyes and note how strident, harsh and voluminous is the sound of real instruments. Nothing soft about them.

A single Violin or Piano will sound incredible loud and full in a small room. Which kind of speakers can represent this? The full body and impetus of an instrument?

All I know is that Horns, because its sensibility and dynamics, will let us feel better all the crudeness of the real thing.

There is nothing soft or "refined" about real instruments, even a little flute will sound incredible loud in a small room. All those who can't stand the sound of Horn speakers for long periods of time will not stand the sound of a real instrument close to them! And no, Im not pretending to be rude.

No, Horns are not perfect, at least not my Klipsch Heresy's, but they get closer to what I want, and their price is fair. Perhaps I should listen to Avantgarde's, only then I will know for real if the best Horns can accomplish the ultimate goal.

 

[Eric Sevigny]

Someone should explain to me what "dynamics" is because there seem to be a lot of confusion on the term running around this thread.
As for frequency response - IMHO, it basically is useless (unless they show REAL BIG problem areas; like zones the speakers cannot reproduce). B&W also claims (with graphs to support it) practically flat frequency response, yet sound nothing like Klipsch which, if this thread is to be believed, also are flat speakers. So I feel it is still entirely possible/reasonable to claim Klipsch are "high-frequency heavy" or "harsh". Presenting a frequency response graph and claiming K. speakers are not harsh because it doesn't show in those is, IMHO, rather simplistic. But hey, I feel using SPL numbers/graphs to define subwoofers is also silly...
Anyway, I probably shouldn't argue. I have gone the way of the ribbons (VMPS RM2s) and have no plans on going to horns or anything else