A Few Words About While we wait for A few words about...™ The Rodgers & Hammerstein Collection -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Will Krupp]

Well I could weep with joy over how tremendous the Todd-AO Oklahoma! looks. I didn't believe it but it really IS like looking out a window! Even as a kid I didn't like the Cinemascope version and never fell for the movie until I saw the Todd-AO version (panned and scanned even) on VHS. I'm so happy it's been restored to it's proper place as the primary version. Speaking of which, did anybody check out the Cinemascope yet? It really seems to have gotten the short shrift on PQ this time around (is it impossible to lovingly present BOTH versions at the same time?) and I don't think it's just a result of comparing the two. It feels "slapped on."

I'm watching KING & I now and, wow, I thought people were exagerating but I'm only 18 minutes in and Anna's dress has changed color about five times already (from blue-grey to steel grey to mossy grey to downright blue and back again, sometimes from shot to shot.) I don't get it, I really don't get it.

 

[Will Krupp]

It was that bad, It was inept, whereas the Close SOUTH PACIFIC was horrific. Both were unnecessary.

Is that the one where Glenn Close played Nellie Forbush's mother?

 

[Noel Aguirre]

Oh but it WAS!

It was that bad, It was inept, whereas the Close SOUTH PACIFIC was horrific. Both were unnecessary.

At least it was live and you got to see the correct sequence of songs as written plus the ones cut. It could have been a live disaster. Julie Andrews liked it.

 

[Noel Aguirre]

Is that the one where Glenn Close played Nellie Forbush's mother?

It was the one where she proved she couldn't sing.

 

[AnthonyClarke]

The tears are streaming down my face as Amazon tells me my precious parcel is presently in North East Indianapolis.

I think it's heading in the wrong direction. Australia is the other way, please don't send it to Austria!!!

Doug.

Yes, that's happened to me. Austria. My discs that time went to a central fulfilment centre in central Europe for final despatch!

 

[davidmatychuk]

At least it was live and you got to see the correct sequence of songs as written plus the ones cut. It could have been a live disaster. Julie Andrews liked it.

And watching it, I never liked Julie Andrews more.

 

[john a hunter]

At least it was live and you got to see the correct sequence of songs as written plus the ones cut. It could have been a live disaster. Julie Andrews liked it.

Well it was a "dead "disaster for me and most people. Bloody Mary was portrayed as a mentally retarded zombie( nearly dead but not quite), Cable had as much charisma as if he were dead , Billis was as amusing as if were dead and, well you can guess how effective Nellie and Emile were.
Happy Talk was apparently cut. I had long given up before were came to where it would have been so I can't confirm.

 

[Craig S]

I want to know how you get a black Mother Abyss running a nunnery in 1930's Austria? Can anyone explain that? Even if it is the Audra McDonald?
...

It's called "Willing Suspension of Disbelief". When you have a chance to hear Audra McDonald sing "Climb Every Mountain"... well, I can't think of a better reason to suspend disbelief a little.

 

[Mark Booth]

Robert (Harris), I'm really looking forward to your assessment of four newly released films in this set! In particular, 'The King and I'!

Those of you with contacts at Fox, PLEASE direct them to the pertinent sections of this thread. In particular the screenshots and discussion of 'The King and I'!

Mark

 

[John Maher_289910]

It was the one where she proved she couldn't sing.

Actually, she proved that in SUNSET BLVD. Julie Andrews never said she like TSOM Live. She said she didn't watch it. More on topic, I cannot wait until they release these films, individually, so I can get OKLAHOMA!

 

[classicmovieguy]

I applaud Carrie Underwood for having the sheer guts to take this project on. The intentions were good, but the execution may not have been 100% "there".

 

[haineshisway]

Back home. I've only spot-checked The King and I. I don't find any of it overtly blue. I find the usual Leon Shamray blue lighting through windows and shades - anyone familiar with his work will know that it's a trademark of his. But here's there real point: Look anywhere else in the frame - golds, reds, yellows, greens, all perfectly accurate. I hope no one here thinks that some colorist guy went in, isolated one part of the frame and cranked up the blue, because that's just unthinkable really. So, I found the color nice. What I'd like to know is if this IS a new 4K "restoration" - is that stated somewhere, because where I might possibly agree with some posters, there's something that's keeping this from being perfect - I have to watch more, but it might be contrast or something, just not sure. As to the two shots in the screen caps of Lady Thiang singing Something Wonderful - one guess is that the first of the caps, the better looking one, is from before the final long shot of her finishing the number. Once it goes to that shot of her finishing the number it's an optical and of course doesn't look good as the other shot.

 

[Mike Frezon]

I have just finished watching The King and I.

It was my intention to watch this film in the set first as it has been at the top of my "most wanted" list for high definition.

I thought it looked great.

Now that could be because of my untrained eye. Or, it could be because it is one of my favorite films and I inevitably get caught up in the story, the incredible music and scoring and don't pay such close attention to details of PQ.

Now I closely watched Anna's dress during the "Getting to Know You" sequence. It has always been a problematic scene on home video because of the striping of the dress. And things are no different here. In the widest shot at the beginning of the sequence the skirt actually does look blue with the bodice appearing to be striped. However, as we get closer to the character the stripes over the entire dress become more obvious.

It does appear as if there is quite a bit of blue set lighting during certain sequences...especially when giving the allusion of night time--both in exterior scenes and when shining in windows in evening interior scenes.

I thought the colors, for the most part, looked terrific. Skin tones spot on, for example. I was surprised that the 'Shall We Dance" sequence looked much less red than I remember it from the DVD.

But, again, I have no training in the science and art of film-making. I just know what I like.

And I really like The King and I.

Oh. And the film sounded wonderful.

I am pleased with this disc.

 

[haineshisway]

Oklahoma! in ToddAO - a WOW from the likes of me. ToddAO should have become the process of choice with its 30 frames per second - the clarity and depth is astonishing. I have to chuckle at anyone who would mention the grain - what grain? And that's the point of ToddAO and 30 frames per second - only the lightest and finest grain, not really seeable if you're sitting at a reasonable distance from the screen.

 

[haineshisway]

Mr. Booth also says that the opening shot of Oklahoma (ToddAO) also has lesser quality until it suddenly pops - again, coming out of the main titles you're in an optical, then on the first cut you're not. I have no idea how the opticals were done on this film - but on The King and I the change in quality in Something Wonderful is absolutely because the end of the song is an optical leading into a dissolve - that is the danger of screen caps - when they are done selectively like that and without someone understanding what's going on, then it can lead people to the wrong conclusion.

Also, Mr. Booth's comments about Anna's dress in the one sequence - it's always been like that, even on the DVD and certainly in the prints I've seen over the years. The dress goes in and out of Shamroy's blue light fills - it's really obvious and do we really think a colorist would selectively just isolate her dress and manipulate its color?

 

[OliverK]

What I'd like to know is if this IS a new 4K "restoration" - is that stated somewhere, because where I might possibly agree with some posters, there's something that's keeping this from being perfect - I have to watch more, but it might be contrast or something, just not sure. As to the two shots in the screen caps of Lady Thiang singing Something Wonderful - one guess is that the first of the caps, the better looking one, is from before the final long shot of her finishing the number. Once it goes to that shot of her finishing the number it's an optical and of course doesn't look good as the other shot.

The King and I and Carousel had gotten a 4k scan a long time ago, 2005 at the latest as there was a report about it in American Cinematographer in 2005.

For the most part they also did not scan the 55mm elements but according to that article the 35mm reduction elements. I have another source where they go into more detail and there it is mentioned that the Cinemascope 55 negatives did not contain that much resolution to start with, going to only about 3k, so only a few sequences that could not be printed to 35mm anymore were scanned at 4k and filmed out to 35mm.

I completely agree on the opticals - I thought that by now it should be known that this can be a big issue in many movies from that time. The last one I saw that suffered a lot from them was The Tall Men - even my kids noticed it.

 

[haineshisway]

The King and I and Carousel had gotten a 4k scan a long time ago, 2005 at the latest as there was a report about it in American Cinematographer in 2005.

For the most part they also did not scan the 55mm elements but according to that article the 35mm reduction elements. I have another source where they go into more detail and there it is mentioned that the Cinemascope 55 negatives did not contain that much resolution to start with, going to only about 3k, so only a few sequences that could not be printed to 35mm anymore were scanned at 4k and filmed out to 35mm.

I completely agree on the opticals - I thought that by now it should be known that this can be a big issue in many movies from that time. The last one I saw that suffered a lot from them was The Tall Men - even my kids noticed it.

Now that I read your comments this makes sense. The color really is fine and pretty much as it should be - it's just something's not quite perfect about the transfer and I was kind of expecting it to be. So, maybe it's the fact that it was done almost nine years ago. I'll check out Carousel tomorrow, but Oklahoma! is amazing in every way.

 

[classicmovieguy]

On some of the early VHS editions of "King and I" (with very faded colour), Anna's pinstriped dress worn during "Getting to Know You" looked GREY.

 

[OliverK]

Now that I read your comments this makes sense. The color really is fine and pretty much as it should be - it's just something's not quite perfect about the transfer and I was kind of expecting it to be. So, maybe it's the fact that it was done almost nine years ago. I'll check out Carousel tomorrow, but Oklahoma! is amazing in every way.

From what I can see here Oklahoma! looks spectacular, very detailed no filtering, great colors - I really look forward to it!

Regarding the King and I I will have to wait until I see the disc but even if the rest of the movie looks fine I was surprised about the opening sequence that finally leads to the palace and where that grey dress is changing in color from bluish-grey to almost blue and back to grey. I have my doubts that a cinematographer like Leon Shamroy would have allowed this to happen after final color timing.

You are absolutely right about the other scene with the blue light - that must have been intended and maybe somebody saw that scene and thought that the dress should always be blue and timed other parts accordingly?

Whatever it was looking at the HD airing it seems as if for that version they timed that sequence more evenly and not leaning so much to the blue side in some parts. Too bad that we cannot ask Mr. Shamroy about it but in the meantime and when I have time maybe I will get around to do some caps for comparison and to show that some shots are timed almost identical between the HD airing and the Blu-ray and some completely different.

I think that the difference in detail even in the screencaps and the reports I mentioned make a very good case for Fox switching to Todd-AO after only two movies in Cinemascope 55. As you say if they used that old 4k scan maybe The King and I could have been a bit more detailed but I doubt it would look as good as Oklahoma!

 

[Steve Tannehill]

Actually, she proved that in SUNSET BLVD. Julie Andrews never said she like TSOM Live. She said she didn't watch it. More on topic, I cannot wait until they release these films, individually, so I can get OKLAHOMA!

I saw Sunset Blvd on Broadway and listened to the Los Angeles cast recording and Glenn Close could sing just fine. She wasn't as nuanced a singer as Petula Clark, whom I also saw, or the first national tour (which starred the hydraulic mansion) but she could definitely sing.