What's new

The Official Composer News and Discussion Thread: Hans Zimmer (1 Viewer)

Nick Martin

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2003
Messages
2,690
There is no doubt that former keyboard programmer/performer Hans Zimmer has taken over the world of modern film music.

 

His influence is everywhere, but at the same time it quite skewed because it's primarily his own doing.

 

Zimmer's musical style was made popular in the Jerry Bruckheimer-produced hits like "Crimson Tide", "The Rock" and the "Pirates of the Caribbean" franchise, but what people may or many not know is that he has a type of monopoly on things:

 

Many years ago, Zimmer co-founded a company called "Media Ventures". It was a kind of composer talent / employment agency that attracted a large group of young would-be composers who were given the chance to be put to work on high-profile films out of the gate, with Zimmer overseeing the processes.
 

 

Due to some legalities with Zimmer's co-founders it is now known as "Remote Control Productions".

 

From what I've read, the idea is that directors would approach Zimmer's company, and Zimmer would either develop a series of thematic statements that would be given to the employees to mold and shape into a film score, or a series of composers might be given specific sequences to score but with a set of musical parameters, to give the whole thing a unified sound. They sound like the same thing, and sometimes they might be but I'm not entirely sure.

 

Zimmer would often give credit to these younger composers, despite originating the main themes and ideas on his own, relegating himself to a role of producer for the final credit.

 

There is a massive debate about the merits of this kind of musical factory approach, as the downside (if you see it that way), is that almost all major films have the same basic musical sound to them. The names credited may be different - Steve Jablonsky, Ramin Djawadi, Klaus Badelt and others but the music sound is the same, all based on a signature Zimmer himself created with those popular scores that put him on the map such as "Crimson Tide", "Black Rain" and "The Peacemaker".
 

 

That sound can be described as this:

 

A series of looped rhythms with powerful brass chord phrases, often in a pounding, propulsive manner.

 

It's not a graceful sound by any means - my own criticism of that sound has to do with the performances, since Zimmer and Co. will have a live orchestra perform the written music, but Zimmer will take that recording and overdub all of the brass and occasionally strings with synthesized versions of the same instruments, which (to me at least) cheapens the music to a huge degree - reducing what could have been a powerfully organic performance into that of a cheap keyboard rendering.
 

I listened to two "Gladiator" albums - the original and the follow up album which had a synthesized demo of the opening battle cue.

 

Despite a few editorial differences, the 'live' cue and the demo were interchangeable because of the synthesized overdubs on the live version.

 

It is Zimmer's trademark sound, and it's everywhere.

 

For those who are familiar with Zimmer's music, I suggest you do the following:

 

If you have the "Batman Begins" and "The Dark Knight" albums, play the following tracks back-to-back:

 

For "Begins", play 'Molossus'.

 

For "Dark Knight', play 'Introduce a little Anarchy'.

 

These two pieces of music have the same basic themes, but you'll easily hear the more processed, artificially enhanced sound of "Begins" compared to the "Dark Knight" cue, itself unfortunately damaged by overpowering bass and little dynamic range - like a rock or rap album. "The Dark Knight" is sort of the odd one out, given that it's one Zimmer action score without the heavy synth overdubs. Perhaps that was James Newton Howard's influence to avoid that, but that's only a guess.

 

Of course there is another side to Zimmer's musical personality, with gentler music in "As Good as it Gets" and "The Simpsons Movie", but I'm obviously talking about this bigger, more action-oriented sound that is what has taken over the film music landscape.

 

Directors and studios seem to think that it's what all big films should sound like and the biggest casualty of this is that traditional melodic themes have been on the way out, deemed to 'old fashioned' for more jaded modern audiences. It's all chords and rhythms now. From what I've noticed over the years, a lot of people seem to be eating it up and enjoying it as well. I guess you can't deny its effectiveness.

 

Unless there are sequels to be made, the larger-than-life musical days of "Star Wars" styled film music is long gone.
 

Neil Middlemiss

Premium
Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2001
Messages
5,322
Real Name
Neil Middlemiss
Nicholas - excellent post and largely I don't disagree. While I prefer the more orchestral (traditional) film score styling (Goldsmith, Herrmann, Horner, etc), I have a fondness for the thematic action scores from Zimmer and his legion of underlings :)

 

Perhaps it is because I enjoy the ambient textures which seem to run through Zimmer's scores, even his action scores (The Peacemaker, Crimson Tide, etc), and I also have a deep apprecation for his skills in crafting great themes, but I have always enjoyed his style.

 

Some if his best work, however, has been when he produces a more traditional score, such as The Da Vinci Code, or when he experiments, as he did with his extraordinary Thin Red Line. I don't like the moving away from the intimate collaboration between director and composer though. To me, the magnificance of the craft is the uniqueness of marrying a purposefully written peice designed to play against (or beneath) a specific set of actions, dialogue, or events onscreen, timed with precision. I can take a peice of music and apply to images and get a certain degree of effect, but nothing compares with a peice of music inspired by the film, its scenery, action and acting, and merged into a whole to create the movie experience!

 

Again, great post (and I changed the title, if that 's ok :)
 

Brian Borst

Screenwriter
Joined
May 15, 2008
Messages
1,137
I usually compare Zimmer's music to a meal at McDonald's. You know it isn't any good, but once in a while you can't help yourself and you have to take it in. It isn't original, but it works, you know? But if you listen to the major new movies, then the majority is done by Zimmer and his cohorts, it seems. His sound is oversaturated, and if your work is highly repetitive, then it just comes off as boring and uninspired.

However, I really do think it's ironic that some of the people that came out of the Remote Control group, are actually really good composers, and are much better than Zimmer himself. John Powell comes to mind, and Harry Gregson-Williams too.

I don't really object to the use of synthesizers, since everybody does it, nowadays. But the creativity seems a bit gone, sometimes. Jerry Goldsmith used it to create interesting effects, and that worked. Doubling for the orchestra just seems a bit lazy to me, I dunno.
 

Nick Martin

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2003
Messages
2,690
Originally Posted by Brian Borst

However, I really do think it's ironic that some of the people that came out of the Remote Control group, are actually really good composers, and are much better than Zimmer himself. John Powell comes to mind, and Harry Gregson-Williams too.

I don't really object to the use of synthesizers, since everybody does it, nowadays. But the creativity seems a bit gone, sometimes. Jerry Goldsmith used it to create interesting effects, and that worked. Doubling for the orchestra just seems a bit lazy to me, I dunno.

Once they're free from the constraints of the company's mandate, their own voices can emerge.

 

It's the doubling that ruins the music to me, since I like synthesizers on their own, especially when they're not replicating brass and string instruments. Woodwinds, chimes, vocal effects can be replicated very well without sounding cheap.
 

Jason Charlton

Ambassador
Senior HTF Member
Joined
May 16, 2002
Messages
3,557
Location
Baltimore, MD
Real Name
Jason Charlton
Thought I'd join the discussion and offer a few thoughts.

 

As a fellow film-score geek, I too am conflicted when it comes to composers like Zimmer. Yes, a lot of his stuff sounds similar, but we can say that about almost any film composer out there. Even some of the "all time greats" like Jerry Goldsmith, John Barry, and John Williams have a signature "sound" that persists in most of their scores. Sure, on occassion they have produced something unique and a little more "outside the box" than their standard fare, but by and large composers stay within their comfort zone and it takes new folks with a fresh approach to innovate.

 

So from that perspective I agree with you that Zimmer's approach, while creatively stilted in many ways, is at least good in the sense that it helps cultivate new talents that hopefully will emerge and grow into their own over time.

 

Despite that, I really do enjoy many of Zimmer's earlier scores (before his style became so overused and ubiquitous) such as Backdraft, A League of their Own, Crimson Tide, and The Rock.

 

Originally Posted by Nicholas Martin

Unless there are sequels to be made, the larger-than-life musical days of "Star Wars" styled film music is long gone.

The recent emergence of Michael Giacchino has given me hope that this will not be the case (at least for a while). I find his work to date refreshing, very musical and most important of all (to me) it's so far lacking a signature quality that immediately identifies it as him (well, aside from his punny track names). Consider how diverse his scores to The Incredibles, Ratatouille, Star Trek, Up, and the credits music to Cloverfield are. His "range" for lack of a better terms seems astonishing. He's quickly becoming one of my favorites.
 

Nick Martin

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2003
Messages
2,690
There are two different meanings to a composer's "sound".

 

All composers do develop their own style and overall approach. Williams, for his more adventurous scores always seemed to go for this 'everything and the kitchen sink' method of a huge, technical mass of complex material, where every instrumental group is doing its own thing. Goldsmith had this slightly stilted rhythm in is action music, and went for the larger-than-life brass/tympani pounding hits that punctuate scenes.

 

Horner (my favorite composer) has shifted from style to style over many years, going from more highly complex (and from what I've read difficult to play) brass fanfares to more string-heavy dramatic weight. Not to mention that Horner is synonymous with "familiar" - something I welcome rather than deride. "Avatar" was essentially Horner's entire career's worth of musical ideas all condensed into one massive score.

 

What makes Zimmer unique in this sense is that because he set up a composing 'factory' so to speak, the people who work under him all provide that same Zimmer sound - the electronic overdubbing sound and rhythms I described earlier. The names are all different but the sound is the same because they are providing what seems to be "in" now, almost because they made it "in" now. Impossible to avoid if everyone is giving the same thing. It really is just like McDonalds :)

 

I guess it's more what someone actually does with that sound that matters in the end.
 

Amadeus19

Grip
Joined
Sep 4, 2010
Messages
17
Real Name
John Livingston
I just want to start by saying that I have followed Hans Zimmer ever since I started watching movies and discovered that the quality of the music is just as important as the quality of the acting. I own all of his major film soundtracks, and I have collected quite a few of his sheet music scores and am working on a project to arrange them for Advanced piano. But now to the main reason for my post:

 

I have heard some say that Hans Zimmer's scores are loud and overpowering and lacking in dynamic range and melodic themes. To this I would like to politely point out such scores as Pearl Harbor and The Last Samurai (two of my favorite all time movie scores). These scores are FILLED with sumptuous melodies and soaring dynamics...There are sweet, tender moments that make one almost want to cry...and yes, the rhythmically driven cues for the action sequences where they belong.

 

From the Pearl Harbor Soundtrack listen to "Tennessee" and "Brothers"....two of the finest tracks off that soundtrack. From the Last Samurai sample "A Way of Life" and "Idyll's End". Pure beauty.

 

 

P.S. Zimmer's recent score for Inception is pretty beautiful.
 

Neil Middlemiss

Premium
Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2001
Messages
5,322
Real Name
Neil Middlemiss
Jason - good call on Michael Giacchino. I think there are a few composers that are carrying the mantle of more traditional scoring. There are a number of Brian Tyler scores that I like, but recently I have been digging deeper into history's composers and have become especially enamored with the work of Georges Delerue. His themes are extraordinary and his nuance of orchestra are quite something to behold. I highly recommend his work.

 

Back on to Giacchino - when I compare his work on LOST to Star Trek and then to Up and to The Incredibles, his versatility is a rarity in movie scoring today. One of the best working out there...
 

Originally Posted by Jason Charlton The recent emergence of Michael Giacchino has given me hope that this will not be the case (at least for a while). I find his work to date refreshing, very musical and most important of all (to me) it's so far lacking a signature quality that immediately identifies it as him (well, aside from his punny track names). Consider how diverse his scores to The Incredibles, Ratatouille, Star Trek, Up, and the credits music to Cloverfield are. His "range" for lack of a better terms seems astonishing. He's quickly becoming one of my favorites.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Sign up for our newsletter

and receive essential news, curated deals, and much more







You will only receive emails from us. We will never sell or distribute your email address to third party companies at any time.

Latest Articles

Forum statistics

Threads
357,077
Messages
5,130,222
Members
144,283
Latest member
mycuu
Recent bookmarks
0
Top