The Mentalist - season 3 thread

Discussion in 'TV Shows' started by Patrick Sun, Sep 23, 2010.

  1. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Moderator
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    Our favorite Mentalist Patrick Jane returns for his 3rd season tonight on CBS in the 10 p.m. EDT timeslot.
     
  2. David_Jr

    David_Jr Supporting Actor

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    I thought last night's episode was one of the better ones, while not that great of a mystery on the current murder, I liked the development of the Red John saga. Patrick Jane and the guru are bonding somehow and you have to think that he is going to be a key in the next Red John move.
     
  3. AlexF

    AlexF Supporting Actor

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    The main mystery was so uninteresting that I actually missed the denouement, and don't feel that I actually missed anything. I somehow watched the whole show and have no idea who actually "dunnit". The psychic girl stuff was quite interesting though.
     
  4. David_Jr

    David_Jr Supporting Actor

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    I agree that the main mystery was almost an aside.

    The church's lawyer dunnit.,
     
  5. David_Jr

    David_Jr Supporting Actor

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    Anybody still watch this? I find it resonably entertaining and fun compared to a lot of what's on these days. But, I did think that Rigsby's father was a little too over the top, like could he really be that different from his son. And I did liked that Rigsby told Van Pelt that he would not go to her wedding and still loves her, but I don't understand why one of them wouldn't transfer units to keep the relationship going. They certainly could be kept in the cast and have the units intermingle occasionally. Hard to buy that she is really that smitten by her finace. Going to keep watching though.
     
  6. Walter Kittel

    Walter Kittel Producer

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    I hardly ever post about television - but yes, I watch The Mentalist regularly and enjoy the show. The show's approach is light and you can't really take it too seriously - but it is fun to watch Jane's interaction with the CBI team and the guest cast. For me, part of the attraction is that Jane does and says things that we might be thinking but would not act upon.

    - Walter.
     
  7. Joseph DeMartino

    Joseph DeMartino Lead Actor

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    I can't believe that nobody has posted about the truly stunning season finale for this show. Maybe people just haven't caught up with it on their DVRs until now. So I'll spoilerize my comments.

    Amazing. I actually thought, "What if he had a pistol in his pocket and just fired through is coat and killed the bastard?" a split second before it happened - but I didn't expect it.
    The implications for the show seem to be catastrophic - far more so than those from the season finales of shows like "Castle" (we're pretty sure the character shot just before the ending will live somehow) "CSI" (the actor who killed a bad guy will be back) or "Fringe" (the actor whose character vanished will certainly be back, although how is a mystery.)
    Jane appears to have shot and killed an apparently innocent man in cold blood in front of dozens of witnesses. Hard to see how he gets out of this and the show returns to its normal lighthearted self.
    Also the pursuit of Red John has defined Patrick Jane. It is why he quit the fake psychic business, it is why he joined the CBI, it is what gets him out of bed in the morning, his reason for living.
    Now that he has achieved his revenge (I'm assuming the guy she shot was, in fact, Red John - more on that below) Jane needs something else to live for. Even if he didn't have any kind of legal problem as a result (if he'd killed Red John in secret and disposed of the body, say) Jane (and the show) would have to deal with the fact that his quest has been fulfilled. What next?

    Now I've always thought they should wrap up the Red John story sooner rather than later. I didn't want the show to turn into "The Fugitive" or "ST: Voyager', where each episode as just a way of *not* resolving the major story arc. I think at some point every show that starts with a very specific premise needs to move beyond that premise and grow. That's why I was glad that "Lost" didn't end with everybody being rescued in the last episode, which a lot of people expected when it debuted. (Early in S2, I predicted that at least some of them would get off the island much earlier and that the show's focus would shift after that.)
    So, assuming the dead guy really is Red John, how does the show go on from here?

    (The first two ideas deal with Jane getting away with the murder, and apply whether the guy was Red John or just one of his minions that Jane *thought* was Red John.)

    Jane has two possible outs: Self-defense and some version of a diminished capacity defense.

    1) Jane claims that Red John threatened to kill him and was reaching for something in his own pocket. Jane fired self-defense and kept firing until the threat was over - as cops are trained to do. No one was standing close enough to hear what Red John actually said, and their position in relation to passers-by no one could swear that Red John didn't make a threatening move.
    The obvious objection to this is simply that Jane *had* a gun. The goes to premeditation - especially for a man who famously dislikes the things. The prosecution would argue that Jane brought the gun with him with the purpose of killing Red John when he walked into his trap.
    I'm actually a little fuzzy on what Jane's plan actually *was*. Not only his "real" plan, but also what he told the CBI crew. Was he expecting Red John to show up to kill Hightower himself? Send another minion that they could follow back to RJ when Hightower didn't show up?

    Either way, Jane's defense would be that he was going to be sitting at the table with the mole, waiting for a dangerous serial killer to show up, and with backup posted too far from him to render immediate aid. So he carried a gun - despite his distaste for them - as a last option. He certainly didn't expect to stand up in front a of bunch of armed CBI agent and murder Red John in mid-arrest (which would have been the expected scenario.) Jane was never supposed to be alone with Red John.

    Again - the obvious objection is that Jane planned things so that he'd be alone with Red John. This is wholly implausible. For this to be the case, Jane would have had to know who the real mole was before they went to the mall. Then he waited to tell them until he had identified Red John in the crowd. But that means he would have been willing to put Lisbon, the rest of the team, Hightower and *Hightower's two children* at risk. Jane would never have put innocent lives in danger, not even to get Red John.
    2) Jane gives the same explanation for having the gun. Then he simply tells the jury what Red John said to him about the smell of his daughter's shampoo on the day her murdered her and how without even realizing it, his hand tightened around the trigger of the gun in his pocket and he fired three shot into the man who destroyed his family. Red John had both uttered "fighting words" and created in Jane an "irresistible impulse."
    "Insanity" or diminished capacities don't work very often, and for good reason. But for Jane it could work. He is famously the victim of a horrible crime, and he has been a great assistance to the police in solving other crimes and in making it possible to stop Red John. If anybody might snap in one moment and kill a monster - and then be no further threat to society - it is Patrick Jane.
    Jane is also wealthy, and can afford the best possible counsel to help him make either of thise arguments. Since the prosecution has the legal burden of proof - even in the face of an insanity defense - if Jane's team can raise enough reasonable doubt about Jane's intent in either case, he could easily walk.
    In fact, either of these defenses is good enough that the District Attorney might not even file charges. DA's like to win, and one way to keep up that batting average is to avoid going to trial in cases that look like sure losers. At the very worst Jane might plead to involuntary manslaughter (he was reaching for his gun to detain Red John for the cops and he accidentally discharged the unfamiliar weapon) and probably a gun charge. (Unless Jane actually got a gun and concealed weapons permit at some point. I wouldn't put it past him.) Or maybe he'll just walk.
    Either way, he still needs a way to move into the future. Does he stay with the CBI because his fears for Lisbon when he thought she'd been shot bring feelings to the surface? (Notice he didn't ask about Grace, who would presumably be most in danger from O'Laughlin.) Maybe he starts to feel some guilt about taking a human life. For all that Red John was a monster, most people aren't casual killers. Even trained cops and soldiers who have killed in the most obviously "right" circumstances - defending themselves or others from imminent threats of death - often feel horrible guilt. (Many people are surprised to learn of a post-WWII study that found that even *combat soldiers under fire* often refused to shoot enemy soldiers. On average only about 25% of soldiers shot at enemy troops with the intent to kill. The other 75% either didn't fire their weapons at all, or deliberately shot high or completely away from human targets.)
    Jane may find he has something to atone for.

    Or maybe he'll take Red John's advice to heart. His mission over, Jane can move on, start living a human life again. The CBI is the closest thing he has to a family now, and Lisbon the closest thing to a love interest. Maybe it is time for him to accept that reality. Then the trick will be getting *her* to do so. (Without using hypnosis. That would be cheating. ;-))

    Finally there is the possibility that Jane will get past his legal problems and later discover that the man he killed wasn't really Red John, but yet another minion.

    I *really* hope that they don't go this route. It would just be the horror movie cliche of the Jason/Freddie/Michael jumping up out of the open grave just after everyone thinks he's dead. Been there, done that, haven't actually leapt from my chair at this track in about 30 years. Red John should stay dead. He served his purpose. By now Jane has other reasons for sticking with the CBI, and it is OK to adjust the show to a new reality. That's what keeps a series like this one from getting stale - losing the initial gimmick. Does anybody remember when Jim Rockford* only* investigated *cold cases*? The idea was too limiting, so they dropped it. I *hope* that "Castle" will wrap up the "who killed Beckett's mother?" story early next year, because she her life is changing and the single-minded vengence thing just gets boring after awhile. I'd hate to see it turn into the kind of baroque mythology that eventually sank "The X-Files".


    Anyway, I'll be very interested to see how the producers of "The Mentalist" choose to resolve the cliff-hanger. I just hope they don't do something cheesy or dumb.

    Regards,


    Joe
     
  8. David Norman

    David Norman Cinematographer
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    I have watched just enough shows to have a little idea of what's going on -- 1 was the show where Hightower took Jane 'hostage' and went into hiding.

    The season finale previews drug me into watching this one.



    The plan as best as I can tell was to fake turning Hightower over to the Presumed Mole in a public place figuring RJ would be somewhere in the vicinity

    either watching or in position to take custody after the switch. Obviously Jane was prepared for RJ to be there by carrying his gun. When it turned out

    that the Boss wasn't the real Mole, I guess it was a bit fortuitous that RJ was actually keeping tabs on Jane (or Jane knew that RJ would always be following him

    since the obsession goes both ways). I'm assuming RJ knew that the FBI real mole was going after Hightower and had no reason to believe he would fail to take

    out Hightower.

    [Aside - I still want to know whether the locket was a camera or tracking device since that was never explained)



    As far as how will Jane get off -- I'm betring there is an audio recording of the confession involved since Jane obviously had some sort of communication device to talk with the

    other team members in the Mall. Red John obviously was carrying a gun so self defense should be easier to prove since RJ was facing Jane when he was shot.
     
  9. Matt Hough

    Matt Hough Executive Producer
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    I don't think Jane will have much problem getting "off" with what he did. A more pertinent question is will there be a reason for him to continue with the CBI now that he has put his demon to rest? Of course, Red John does have minions out there that could continue to be a problem, so I'm thinking that's where it might go.



    Just a few thoughts on the finale and aftermath.
     
  10. Patrick_S

    Patrick_S Producer
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    Jane won't have any problems for gunning down Red John for the reasons others have already posted.


    I too will be interested in how they work it so Jane will come back to the CBI since his whole reason for being there was his interest in tracking down RJ.
     
  11. Joe_H

    Joe_H Screenwriter

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    It's also possible that he killed the wrong guy (though I don't think that's the case).


    But Bradley Whitford was perfect for the role, as far as I'm concerned. That scene was really great... it's just too bad the whole Hightower/mole thing was so lame and predictable. I mean, they always make the mole the one who's emotionally closest, so it was obvious (way before tonight, in my opinion) that it was him. And as soon as they set up the cameras, I thought that the killer would go in the room above, faking out the CBI, with the intention of rapelling down to the room underneath, with the big reveal later.


    But the last scene was great.
     
  12. Steve_Pannell

    Steve_Pannell Supporting Actor

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    I hope the guy Jane killed was Red John. I don't think it will be a series ender if it was. As others have said RJ has other minions for Jane & the CBI to deal with. And even though RJ may be dead, Jane still has to deal with the guilt he still feels for the death of his wife & daughter. I think he still has plenty of demons.


    I also hope they give us a little more info on Red John. Seems to me he was more than just your average serial killer.
     
  13. RAF

    RAF Lead Actor

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    Once the Sacramento PD find the gun in the folded newspaper complete with hollow bullets it will be evident that Patrick was merely defending himself against a person who was definitely up to no good. I look forward to next season. And with Red John out of the way, "Red Head" can get back with her real boyfriend. That other guy was really lame and I knew a long time ago that they would find a way to get him out of the picture. A bit of poetic justice regarding his demise and by whom .
     
  14. RichM

    RichM Agent

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    Wasn't Patrick wired? I know he could hear the other agents but couldn't they hear him as well. So wouldn't his conversation with RJ have been recorded even if the other agents left the scene? I was surprised that RJ, as smart as he is, didn't check for a wire or Jane's pockets for a recording device.
     
  15. Joseph DeMartino

    Joseph DeMartino Lead Actor

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    I didn't have the impression that he was wired - just wearing an ear bud so that he could communicate with Cho and Rigsby. Police wires are usually monitored, they don't just leave an unattended recorder running somewhere. If someone were monitoring Jane's conversation with RJ, they would have moved in. As for RJ checking him - presumably one (or more) or his moles told him that Jane was not wearing a (police-provided) bug. That doesn't mean Jane may not have bought something at a spy shop and wired himself without telling anybody. After all, he managed to come up with a gun nobody was expecting.


    But, as others have noted, he wouldn't necessarily have to have RJ on tape to get out from under his apparent difficulties.

    Regards,


    Joe
     
  16. David_Jr

    David_Jr Supporting Actor

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    Thanks for using the spoilers, I couldn't watch till last night.
    Really enjoyed the episode also and couldn't really add much to your fines posts. I am wondering who will arrest Jane though. Lisbon? Or LaRoche? Nobody asked too many questions about LaRoche shooting the store clerk and he had such a guilty look on his face. I imagine the CBI crew will be hard at work trying to prove Jane's innocence while LaRoche prepares to throw the book at him. I agree they should let Red John go, but they did kind of make it look like they wouldn't.


    Glad to see some more chatter on this show also.
     
  17. Joseph DeMartino

    Joseph DeMartino Lead Actor

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    One thing to remember going forward is a seeming throwaway moment from another recent episode - when Cho ticked off the DA's office by "interfering" in their case against the young kid's father. The ADA swore that Cho's unit will never get another favor from the District Attorney, and that little dust-up could come back to bite Lisbon's team in a big way in the aftermath of the finale. Not only will Jane have problems but they still need to legally establish Hightower's innocence - which is a lot tougher to do with two of the key figures involved in framing her having assumed room temperature.

    Regards,


    Joe
     
  18. todd s

    todd s Lead Actor

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    True. But, those in the DA's office and political office above them owe a lot to Patrick...seems to break a lot of big cases for them.
     
  19. Yee-Ming

    Yee-Ming Producer

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    Until Jane fired, I doubt any witnesses were watching their exchange very carefully. So the police will find RJ dead, but with a gun loaded with hollow-points in his possession, lying nearby and presumably with his fingerprints on it. Jane can very easily claim self-defence, and I doubt any witness could testify with absolute certainty that RJ wasn't pointing the gun at Jane at the time Jane fired. In which case, reasonable doubt as to whether Jane in fact murdered Red John. Perhaps the only difficulty is that after RJ was shot, Jane simply sat down calmly, finished his tea and even called for his check, and left payment when the waitress fled in fear. Too cool which suggests some pre-meditation of some sorts, but then again it could also be argued that he 'shut down' after the event and was trying to calm himself down as well, and in his daze even automatically tried to 'do the right thing' by paying his check.
     
  20. RichM

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    I would also think that the whole encounter was probably caught on at least 1 security camera. I would think that will come into play as well as they recreate the crime scene.
     

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