SVS problem?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Arthur S, May 5, 2004.

  1. Arthur S

    Arthur S Cinematographer

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    Chris Deering did a review of the SVS PB-2+ for Home Theater Spot. In the next to last paragraph of his long review, he mentioned that he found a "downside" to this sub, he called the problem "tactile pressure". He did say that "this is a problem with larger subs" (not just SVS). He said that "when you concentrate a lot of drivers in one area they seem to "'press upon you"'. He went on to say "having the PB2+ near me didn't make the sub omni-directional from an aural point of view, but rather from a room pressure point of view".

    "It was like the air was pushing against the side of my face". He goes on to say that he recommends the PB-2+ for larger rooms only .

    I had never heard of this issue before.

    What do you make of it?

    Thanks

    Artie
     
  2. ScottCarr

    ScottCarr Second Unit

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    Having a rather small HT this has plague my loud listening heavy bass experiences. After a while, about 10 minutes, I will develop a headache. This is not isolated to SvS. This is a by product of a driver pushing a great deal of air in its travel. If there is not where for that air to vent it will create a pressure in the listening area. This is simply overcome by opening an adjoining door or window.
     
  3. frank manrique

    frank manrique Supporting Actor

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    Guys,

    I think --nope, I know!--Chris Deering couldn't survive a session at my "large" HT room...with EIGHT SVS 16-46 subs going full tilt......pumping lots of air at real low frequencies--in the infrasonic region--and without even having to reach reference levels... [​IMG]

    And I want to add more subbass units to the mix. Maybe a pair of SVS B4+ monsters! Crazy, ain't it?... :b

    Btw...I never get headaches when listening to reproduced sound, although I have to admit puking once when I over-exposed myself to nearfield wavefronts and way too much infrasonic output at very high amplitude levels... [​IMG]

    _THTS
     
  4. JimmyK

    JimmyK Second Unit

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]


    Yikes!

    Repeat after me.....my name is Frank, and I'm a bassaholic! [​IMG]

    JimmyK
    with only one 16-46PC+[​IMG]
     
  5. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    tactile sensations are not limited to subwoofers.
     
  6. EarleD

    EarleD Supporting Actor

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    Frank

    Welcome back havent seen your name in a while.

    You were one of the first too get SV subs if I remember correctly. Are you using the original drivers or did you upgrade to the isd?

    Earle
     
  7. John F. Palacio

    John F. Palacio Supporting Actor

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    IMHO and with all due respect this is sheer nonsense. [​IMG]
    I mean "press upon you"?
     
  8. frank manrique

    frank manrique Supporting Actor

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    Hi...my name is Frank...and am an SVS bassaholic...

    There...I said it!... [​IMG]

    -THTS
     
  9. frank manrique

    frank manrique Supporting Actor

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    Erle,

    Thanks for the welcome. It sure is nice to be remembered! [​IMG]

    Yep, I was one of the first clients that purchased SVS subwoofers (the eight passive 16-46 subs in question. Am really happy to see the company has grown so much too!).

    Nope...the 16-46 octet still has the original drivers.

    But at the present am seriously considering going to the DOUBLE B4+ subbass system route with which to replace the 16-46s, so I hope financial affairs go my way soon...

    -THTS
     
  10. MikeLi

    MikeLi Supporting Actor

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    Frank how old are your SVS's? Just curious. I have one PB2+ in the family/HT room and just love it. I am one of those guys that usually have to have the best but I gave in on this one and got the PB2+ instead of the 4. Now I will always wonder... And I hate that. Anyway the good side is the PB2+ has never been to be above the 1/2 side on gain so I still have plenty of headroom if I really wanted to blow the sheetrock off the walls. Congrats if you dual 4's work out.. please come back and let us know how they work for you.
     
  11. Lee Bailey

    Lee Bailey Second Unit

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    So Frank, where do you hold the BA meetings at?[​IMG]
     
  12. frank manrique

    frank manrique Supporting Actor

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    Lee Bailey,

    Hope to hold "BA" meetings at the recently refurbished old (built in 1922!) Hemet cinema house in Hemet, California...if the idea of forming a new film society (yep...35mm and 70mm films used as reference to judge standard and hi-def resolution video reproduction, etc.) takes hold and videophiles/film lovers begin to join the cause.
    The theater is now own by a good friend of mine, and he suggested I use his facilities for society's meetings since he will only be open for business Fridays thru Sundays (he is opening tonight with a showing of 1959's version of Ben-Hur, my favorite big screen film epic classic of all time!). Perhaps we could put the 16-46 octet to work there in lieu of the house's own bass facilities?... [​IMG]

    -THTS

    "...hi, my name is Frank... and am an SVS bassaholic..."
     
  13. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    Hi Frank,

    You sound like my kind of guy. Nice to see a owner of more than dual cylinders here on the Forum. I had herd of you but hadn't ever came across any of your posts.

    I will be getting my fourth 25-31CS+ just as soon as I can muster up the courage or in six months> WAF-She is good and tired of my obsessive bass shenanigans. I do plod forward though.

    When you do start up BA don't count on me attending because I'm still in denial. All I ask for is one more sub.[​IMG]

    welcome back Frank

    steve nn
     
  14. Arthur S

    Arthur S Cinematographer

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    So let me get this straight. Chris Deering whose regular subs are 2 SVS 25-31s with a 700 watt Sampson amp, is a dummy who doesn't understand why this uncomfortable feeling of pressure on the side of his face is because the room is too small for a PB-2+, or he has no doors or other openings to his listening room?

    If this is the case, how big a room do you need for a very powerful sub? I know that Tom V and Ron S will give personal advice as to how much sub a potential buyer needs and I compliment them on this personal touch. I also know that Tom and Ron are both straight shooters who are more interested in satisfied customers than making more money.

    I have just never read a sub review that mentions an "uncomfortable tactile pressure". And let me repeat, Deering mentions that this tactile pressure is not limited to SVS subs.

    Does this mean I should forget about something like a Velodyne DD-18 or dual HSU 1220's with the 800 watt amp? I thought that one of the main ideas behind buying a heavy hitter was to minimize compression of the lowest notes.

    Tom and Ron both have huge homemade cylinders and if I remember right Tom's 30 inch diameter ICBM will do 123 db from 25-63 Hz.

    Thanks for your thoughts.

    Please keep them coming.

    Artie
     
  15. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    It has been my experience that the pressure on the (side of the face) equates out to be a sub/subs running to hot. Placement and room do play a factor but if a guy positions a sub correctly and calibrates accordingly the pressure will be felt by the entire body not the side of the face. Some times placement options on a PB2+ (or any other larger sub) can be limited and not very contusive to good quality bass. Your options sound very promising. In a room your size the long-wall looks very promising?


    I have three great options myself with two of them being right next to seating. Calibrated correctly they both work out very well. In the end I wound up with all three in the FR corner> WAF and power to spare.
     
  16. frank manrique

    frank manrique Supporting Actor

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    MikeLi,

    I believe the 16-46s proceeded from the very first batch of subs ever produced by SVS...and are, what, about four years old?

    As for your dilemma (?)...just get another PB2+! That'll make it up to be the equivalent of a B4+, I reckon.

    Really hope to be able to swing a pair of B4+s, so will keep my fingers crossed...

    -THTS

    "...hi, my name is Frank...and am an SVS bassaholic..."
     
  17. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

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    I took the liberty of snapping a photo of myself during Master & Commander the other night.

    My PB2-Ultra sits about 11 feet away in a 2000 ft3 room. "Tactile pressure"? Hell yes!

    Apologies to wimpy subs everywhere....
     
  18. KeithY

    KeithY Stunt Coordinator

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    hahaha

    Tactile pressure! my 2Ultra is 5ft behind the seating area,
    you want pressure? This thing delivers loads of pressure
    during ch2 of Toy Story2!
     
  19. Arthur S

    Arthur S Cinematographer

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    Gee

    I guess I just don't feel comfortable being under a lot of pressure [​IMG] .

    I can also mention that years ago I got front row tickets to a concert. The seats were off center towards the right. At both sides of the stage their were large stacks of huge speakers. I could see the frames of the (sub) woofers through the grill cloth. Just guessing, I would say there were as many as 16 bass drivers in the stacks. The bass was so loud and deep that it actually changed the rhythm of my heart . The bass drivers were each at least 18 inches and possibly 24 inches or more.

    I love bass and long for the day when I can go crazy and treat myself to whatever it takes to give me goosebumps. Right now I live in an apartment, so that day is going to have to wait a while.

    Thanks

    Artie
     
  20. frank manrique

    frank manrique Supporting Actor

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    Shortly after I received the Samson Servo 2000 amp with which to drive the 16-46 octet a while back, I asked my son Steve to listen to my CD copy of Tachaikovsky's 1812 Overture (Telarc) with me. To make it short...both of our pants' legs were set in rather violent motion (fluttering) by the wavefronts generated by the SVS subs during the spirited Overture's finale! U.......g believable...

    Similarly, U-57's underwater charge scenes produced wavefronts that were highly CONCUSSIVE even at moderate listening sound pressure levels, as were the black powder cannon blasts from The Patriot (Mel Gibson's flick), Toy Story 2, Titan AE's "ice field" and scenes from a host of other bass spectaculars DVDs and CDs as well.

    -THTS

    "...hi, my name is Frank...and am an SVS bassaholic..."
     

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