Support the Star Wars OT on DVD campaign! (1 Viewer)

[Simon Massey]

Most of the people passionate about getting the OT on DVD in its original form are not "purists who insist on theatrical versions for everything"

Or just on theatrical versions for films of significant importance. I can manage without the theatrical version of Batman and Robin

 

[Richard Kim]

Then I take that the "preservation of historical documents" arguement is not valid, as those who want the original SW films do not care if other films are not presented in its original theatrical version. (ie, Last of the Mohicans, Close Encounters, Aliens).

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

The fight in question is exactly the same in the Special Edition and looks just as "ridiculous." In my never-humble opinion, if George Lucas really wanted to improve these films, the money used to make Greedo shoot first would have been better spent on the Rancor fight.

This much I agree with. For all the novelty changes of the SEs, I wish they had fixed the damn lightsabers (in ANH, I mean) and removed all the matte lines. That seemed to me to be among the first things to be changed.

 

[Simon Massey]

Then I take that the "preservation of historical documents" arguement is not valid, as those who want the original SW films do not care if other films are not presented in its original theatrical version. (ie, Last of the Mohicans, Close Encounters, Aliens).

No, it means that there are many reasons why people want the OT released INCLUDING the argument you mentioned.

 

[Simon Massey]

But if your saying This film needs to be released on DVD in it's original form because it's a part of film history, then you better damn well be willing to say that about all films.

While I personally would prefer to see theatrical cuts of all films to be released alongside any Directors Cuts, I do not see your point. Not every film has the same cultural or historical importance, and therefore its understandable why some people feel more strongly about the release of certain films in their original theatrical version than others. If they announced a director's cut of say Citizen Kane or The Godfather and the subsequent deletion of the original version, I expect you would get a very strong response.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Not every film has the same cultural or historical importance, and therefore its understandable why some people feel more strongly about the release of certain films in their original theatrical version than others.

Who's to say which films are more culturally important? While I doubt you'd get an agruement that, say, Wizard of Oz is more important than Bill and Ted's Exellent Adventure; there's still alot of grey. What is historical importance based upon? Age? Popularity? Box Office? Or something less tangible? If the latter, then it just gets back to wanting the films the petitioners like to be released in their original versions doesn't it? One could make the argument that any film released has a cultural impact. And one could equally argue that, short of having a missle defense shield named after it, that Star Wars has little real historical impact outside of the cultural arena. I guess I don't see what makes one film more important than another. If a film makes a connection with any portion of the audience in any positive way, even if it's only to lift their spirits for a bit, I consider it important.

 

[Chuck Stephens]

While I completely understand where people are coming from in regards to wanting the original versions of these films on dvd I wonder if this is going to be a never ending battle. What happens when whatever high-definition format the studios choose to embrace comes along? Are the original versions going to be released on that format too? Or are we looking at the same problem a few years from now. Just some random thoughts while I sit here at 4 in the morning.

 

[Simon Massey]

Who's to say which films are more culturally important? While I doubt you'd get an agruement that, say, Wizard of Oz is more important than Bill and Ted's Exellent Adventure; there's still alot of grey.

Agreed which is why personally I would prefer all theatrical versions of films would be released. But this is about Star Wars, and the cultural and historical importance of this film is not in question. So why should someone arguing for the theatrical version of the OT and not of other so-called "grey" films, not be taken seriously ? They want the OT because of its importance.

 

[Richard Kim]

So why should someone arguing for the theatrical version of the OT and not of other so-called "grey" films, not be taken seriously?

So Close Encounters and Aliens are not culturally important, critically and publicly acclaimed films, not worthy of being presented in their original versions?

 

[Patrick R]

I too agree that the theatrical presentation of all films should be preserved. Just because I don't like a certain film doesn't mean that someone else doesn't. I really hope the new Alien Quadrilogy boxed set features both the original and director's cuts of Alien and Aliens. I'm more concerned with Aliens since the theatrical cut doesn't exist on DVD at all.

However, I would be more inclined to replace my Legacy boxed set with Quadrilogy if both films have both versions. Otherwise, I may only buy Aliens by itself if that becomes an option. If not, I won't buy anything.

I'm very disappointed Fox didn't include the theatrical cut of Last of The Mohicans. I'm sure that more Mann's doing than Fox's though. That film would have been easy to seamless branch. I like a few changes Mann made, but I also hate some of the cuts he made as well.

Bladerunner is another film I hope is done properly (my opinion of what properly is) with all 3 or 4 versions of the film since it will be a multiple disc set. One big problem. Warner. They never do seamless branching which is what would be required here. I would love to be able to watch the Director's cut with the monologue (yes, I prefer the monologue). I know the monologue would have to end early since the Director's cut doesn't have the happy ending. However, this problem could be resolved with seamless branching. If Bladerunner is a 3 disc set, it will probably be because there is one version of the film on each disc. That is fine by me too, as long as they have both versions of the film that I know of and the quality is better than that POS Warner put out in 1997. I know that was the early days of DVD, but none of the other DVD's they did that year were that terrible in quality.

Sorry this has branched off of Star Wars, but I felt it important to point out that my views of preserving the theatrical presentations of all films is important. I don't care if it is "Glitter" we are talking about. Someone out there likes that film. I don't know who he or she is, but that is irrelevant . (Just kidding). Someone mentioned Rollerball. I happen to like the original 70's version of that film.

I'm also disappointed Lucas didn't give us the option to watch the theatrical versions of Episodes I&II. I've seen Director's cuts that are superior to their theatrical version counterparts (Brazil). That is irrelevant. I like to be able to compare the differences and how the films have changed.

I see so much attention brought to the matte lines. I too can see them, but they are not that distracting to me. I also noticed that they are hardly noticeable by the time you get to Jedi.

Here is something else to think about. Here are the budgets for the Star Wars films found on the Internet Movie Database in US dollars. A New Hope (1977)$11 million, Empire (1980)$18 million, Jedi (1983)$32 million, Phantom Menace (1999) $115 million, and Clones (2002) $120 million. I don't know about you, but I think it is incredible that A New Hope was made for only $11 million even though that amount of money meant a lot more than now. In comparison, 2001 A Space Odyessy (1968) cost $10.5 million. Those that hated the "dated" special effects of the original versions of Star Wars think about that. I'm not saying to stop hating them. I'm just saying to take a look around at what else was around during that time and see how the effects of Star Wars were incredible (still incredible to me). With the exception of 2001 A Space Odyssy, I can't think of many other space Sci-Fi films from the 60's or 70's that even came close to matching the achievements of special effects made by A New Hope. In my opinion, the greatest space battle I have ever seen in a movie was the one in Jedi. That was all models. No CGI used.

While I prefer the original versions of the Star Wars films, I want all three versions of the films. It would be nice to be able to preserve the history of the films and be able to study how the films changed over the years.

Someone also mentioned HD-DVD. The original versions should also be preserved on that format. The greater greater storage capacity would allow them to include all three versions of the films with fewer discs and with no loss of extras.

Finally, I just want to say that I realize Lucas has his own vision and he owns these films. I'm not asking him to change his vision and stop making changes to his films. I'm just asking him to include the original versions either as separate releases or packaged together with the updated versions. I don't see the harm in that. Sometimes I feel that he plans to do that all along, but likes to generate all of this publicity. I'm sure he doesn't like the negative publicity, but the positive publicity of having people begging to get the original versions of the Star Wars films keeps him in the spotlight between the prequel trilogy films. I think he had this in mind when the announcement was made on the THX releases back in 1995. That's just my opinion though and not one that is based on any fact that I have found. So, it can be taken with a grain of salt.

Patrick R.

 

[Jeffrey Gray]

Tell me...if Lucas decided to release the originals, but with all the effects digitally recomposited (but no new CGI) to remove optical problems (matte lines, gray boxes, the opacity problems in the Hoth Battle, etc.)...would you still buy it?

 

[nousername]

So Close Encounters and Aliens are not culturally important, critically and publicly acclaimed films, not worthy of being presented in their original versions?

Who the heck said that? Just because we want the original versions of the Star Wars OT doesn't mean we also don't want the original versions of other movies such as Close Encounters and Aliens. A lot of us DO want the original versions of ALL movies on DVD--the reason you don't hear much about these here is because this is a thread about the Star Wars movies--NOT Close Encounters, Aliens, etc.!

Stop bringing the thread off topic like this. If you want to start a thread petitioning the original versions of those other movies, do so, but stop hi-jacking threads like this which only deal with the Star Wars movies.

 

[Patrick R]

Yes I would. I know many may criticize me for that, but I feel what you describe is more of a limitation of the way the effects had to be composited. The matte lines are not that big of a problem for me as I've stated. The biggest complaints I have are adding what I feel to be uneeded scenes, altering scenes with CGI additions, changing the original effects to CGI in some scenes, changing some of the music, and adding sound effects like Luke's cheesy scream. To me the matte line removal would be like removing scratches and burn marks.

However, I will buy nothing if the Special Editions are all I have to choose from. I know I've stated that I would like to have all of the versions, but the original versions are the ones I have the highest regard for. If there are no Original Version DVD's, I'll see nothing special about the Special Editions since there will be no Original Editions to compare them with.

Patrick R

 

[nousername]

Tell me...if Lucas decided to release the originals, but with all the effects digitally recomposited (but no new CGI) to remove optical problems (matte lines, gray boxes, the opacity problems in the Hoth Battle, etc.)...would you still buy it?

Yes, I would buy it, but I can understand how some hard core purists might object to this.

 

[Simon Massey]

So Close Encounters and Aliens are not culturally important, critically and publicly acclaimed films, not worthy of being presented in their original versions?

Well Allan beat me to it so thank you. I never said any such thing at all!!!

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Stop bringing the thread off topic like this. If you want to start a thread petitioning the original versions of those other movies, do so, but stop hi-jacking threads like this which only deal with the Star Wars movies.

I don't see how it's hijacking the thread at all. It's a very interesting discussion about the merits of perserving film, and what lengths should be taken to preserve them. And if one is launching a campaign for any goal, they should be able to field questions regarding that campaign, which is all the CE3K, Aliens, etc. comments are. Besides, us detractors are really doing the campaign a service in that we're keeping the thread fresh in people's minds.

 

[Carlo_M]

Adam, yes it IS hijacking. People here want the Star Wars trilogy in its original version. For you, and others, to insist that now we have some sort of obligation to start threads on other films is inappropriate and hijacking.

I can support wanting these films in their original format without starting threads on other films. Just because I don't start or participate in those threads does not mean I am violating my principle in wanting the OT in its original form.

Just because I (and others) may feel that the original version of the OT should be preserved does not sign us up for some "massive campaign of theatrical versions on DVD"! I will agree that it's important to preserve films, but don't presume to make me fight battles which I choose not to.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

I will agree that it's important to preserve films, but don't presume to make me fight battles which I choose not to.

I wouldn't and indeed haven't. For all I know, you like the flow of the movie better in the original cut. Perhaps you find the CG additions gimmicky. If you want the original cuts for any reason other than the preservation of film as history, than none of my comments were addressed to you anyway. In the end, you will fight the battles you choose to as I will fight the battles I want to. I am simply suggesting that people appreciate the platform for whatever indignation they may have over the OT being released.

(Boy, was that convoluted enough?)

 

[David Lambert]

I've been - to a small degree, anyway - following this debate for the past few days, and to those who ask "why not express the same outrage over other films' alterations?", I present these points:

1) The OT are a set of films that are not on DVD yet, and will be a while before they come out. It is highly probable work has not begun on putting ANY version of these films onto DVD yet.

2) The person who owns these films - GL - has stated already, however, that he has no intention of putting those films out in their original theatrical versions, giving us reasons for this decision that we feel to be, perhaps, misguided.

3) This presents us with a UNIQUE opportunity to use this petition and platforms to persuade him to change his decision long before the production process begins on these films.

4) With the other films mentioned, they are already out on DVD, and have been for some time.

5) When those other films were first produced for DVD, there was not enough people who knew prior to production, nor enough lead time before production began, to begin a campaign of this nature to make the film's owners aware of the interest in Original Theatrical Versions.

6) At the time those films were produced, there was not a big enough base of potential petition signers to perhaps have made a difference in any case.

7) The issue had not yet received the same amount of national attention it has by now (examples: the South Park episode concerning the matter of revising films after-the-fact; the entire situation with E.T.).

8) With the success of the outcry over the situation with E.T., and with a "dollars" situation toward that film (based on low box office for the theatrical run of the revised version) backing up the idea that the public has an interest in seeing the films in their original form, the studios now have a firm idea of just how much this type of thing is taken seriously by the customers. The best part is that this wasn't so much an organized campaign with E.T.; it just sort of happenned. But it proved the interest in original versions all the same.

9) With that in mind, the campaign for the OT has a chance of success that frankly would have been absent on all levels a few years ago.

10) *IF* and when the "battle for the OT" has been won, then it will permanently open the eyes of the studios about the importance to the buying public of preserving film history.

11) For now, though: one battle at a time! We should concentrate our resources on getting THESE films (the OT) put onto DVD in their Original Theatrical Versions. Afterward, perhaps, we can look into re-opening the matter of the other films, such as CE3K and Superman.

12) In the meantime, perhaps we should consider to stop sending studios some mixed messages. Warner probably thinks we are crazy when we object to changed soundtracks on Superman, cited that we want the film as originally screened...yet on the other hand a significant number of us also demand that we should be able to buy a "Donner cut" of Superman II, and threaten them that we won't buy the original threatrical cut that is already available on DVD until and unless we also get the other cut. Yes, some people on this forum have stated that. We should put the same careful thought into those types of requests as we have the request for the OT. Remind owners of films that we enjoy the Original Theatrical Vesions of films, and buy and support those, but remind them also that there is interest in Director's Cuts and other "revisions" that may or may not "improve" the film in question. Politely point out that this is an acceptable way to get you to double dip. After all, they have to know that there is something in it for them. They don't want to spend money unless they can make some money in the process.


Now, perhaps we can get this thread back on-track to discussing JUST the OT, and talk about what else can be done at this point to continue driving home the point about this issue. Has Entertainment Tonight been made aware of the petition? How about Entertainment Weekly? Did the petition site ever get Slash-dotted? (Is that the right term?) What's next?

 

[Aaron Reynolds]

The fight in question is exactly the same in the Special Edition and looks just as "ridiculous."

Except that the Rancor fight has had very significant work done to it in the Special Edition: it has been recomposited, removing tons of printed-in dirt and grain, and the black matte lines, while still visible, are greatly reduced. Compare them side by side and the improvement is substantial.

Like George himself said, he tried to give us the films we remembered seeing, not the films we saw.