Stopping DVD purchases or upgrading dvd library to High Def.

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Bryant Trew, Aug 18, 2004.

  1. Ed St. Clair

    Ed St. Clair Producer

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    Craig W,
    A copy guard will be in place by the 2005 release of the two competing (Ugh!) formats. Rest assured.

    My statement you quoted was in answering too your question of;
    "Flashforward to today, do any of us really think that the studios are gung ho to give us high res copies of their properties?"
    Today & yesterday & the day before, Studios have released in HiRez. That's all, just a fact. In two different formats, no less! And from those facts, I feel (you may not), that it's absolutely clear, they will do it again.
     
  2. Nils Luehrmann

    Nils Luehrmann Producer

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    [​IMG]

    Where are you getting this information from?

    35mm film has a resolution many times greater than even 1080p! Heck, even 16mm film has more resolution than 1080p.

    In fact in some ways it is the other way around. Films like SW: AOTC that are shot with digital cameras have FAR less resolution than movies shot fifty years ago on 35mm film.

    Lowery Digital is in the process of digitally scanning thousands of films and the best they can do right now is 4000k resolution - which even Digital Lowery admits is a compromise of the original resolution - but that's the best we can hope for at the moment.

    Make no mistake about it, even native 720p (not scaled 720p like some DVD players currently do and what some projectors display) will make older films just as spectacular - assuming of course the original film isn't in poor shape, or the studio does a poor restoration, or the transfer is bungled. These are all big "If"s - but no different than what we see in standard DVD as well.

    That said, Hi-Def DVD will definitely be a niche market for years to come as most consumers do not even have a display that can take advantage of the extra resolution, and even when native Hi-Def displays have saturated the market place most consumers will not care or even possibly notice the difference between a scaled image and a native image and as such the only incentive for these folks to buy into a Hi-Def format will be predicated on price.
     
  3. Jordan_E

    Jordan_E Cinematographer

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    I'm a new generation hardware movie nut and will probably get a first gen HD DVD when it comes out, but I'm not holding out buying new DVDs right now. And, a digital to digital, high end DVD player supposedly looks fantastic compared to an off the shelf model, at least according to certain magazines.
     
  4. Brent M

    Brent M Producer

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    I think another factor that many people are forgetting about is the cost of HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray software. HD discs certainly aren't going to be $15.99 on Tuesdays at Best Buy like current DVDs. We all know that the next generation players are going to be very expensive at launch, but I think the software is going to be priced pretty high as well. My guess would be anywhere from $30-45 per title. For me, it would be very tough to justify paying $45 for a HD-DVD/Blu-Ray disc when I can get 3 DVDs for that price. Just something else to think about in this whole debate.
     
  5. Jean D

    Jean D Screenwriter

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    But the studio's will want to push their new copy-protected format over the already mega-sold, copy-protection-bypassed DVD's. The studios would control the prices. Plus at the rate that HD tv's are selling there will be some kind of demand to see what people are paying for. Your forgetting, other than people from forums like this, most people havent spent a lot of money on HT gear or dvd's. We have maximized the current HT setup. We already view dvd's at their best quality. Other people are hearing about HDTV and how great it is. a lot are buying into that, But all they are seeing is 480p. Even I only see HD when there something good on the satellite (ussually Sunday on HBO). People will buy it. We are hesitant because we've spent so much already. I think some of us are hoping it doesnt happen for fear of supporting a dead format.
     
  6. Brent M

    Brent M Producer

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    Jean D,

    I completely disagree. The studios are making money hand over fist off DVD right now and they certainly don't want to kill the "golden goose" anytime soon. They're smart enough to know that an HD format will be a niche market for several years(which means titles will be priced accordingly) while DVD will continue to be their top seller for quite some time. HDTVs are still only in a very small percentage of U.S. households which means the market for a high definition disc format is quite limited. As for buying into a "dead format", well I don't view it that way at all. Right now, DVD is the ONLY high-quality format available that offers titles like Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Lord of the Rings, The Matrix, Spider-Man, GoodFellas, Pulp Fiction, The Terminator, The Godfather, Kill Bill, Jaws, Saving Private Ryan, etc. Until titles like those are available on HD-DVD/Blu-Ray I have no intention of buying into the next generation formats, but to each their own.
     
  7. Ed St. Clair

    Ed St. Clair Producer

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    Last year in Japan, discs were streeting for $27US ($30US retail) a title.
    Any know what they are selling for this year?
     
  8. Scotty_McW

    Scotty_McW Second Unit

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    I will definitely be stepping up to which ever format wins this war, but probably not until then. Or at least not until it starts to be clear who the victor will be.

    As far as I'm concerned, an HD format can remain a niche format. It would be nice if any film released in HD would only be released in OAR. No more fullscreen. This would be perfect. J6P would have their standard DVDs that can come in pan & scan and OAR, while collectors can have a high quality version in the OAR.

    I'm sure this is too simple and makes too much sense to work though.
     
  9. Joe Karlosi

    Joe Karlosi Producer

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    Personally, I'm sick and tired of all this format/style changing. First 16mm, then Beta, then VHS, then Laserdisc, then DVD, then HD-DVD, and what's next.... "superduperDVD"???

    No thanks. I'm tired of upgrading and changing formats, and re-re-re-buying my movies. IMO, we should spend more time watching and enjoying films instead of constantly upgrading them 10 times. You just know that NO format style is going to stay put forever.

    DVD as it is now is more than perfect for me.
     
  10. Jean D

    Jean D Screenwriter

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    has anyone read the article I posted a link to earlier. the #'s of HD sets being sold are staggaring. reading that article made my opinion change a little. Here, I'll post it again
     
  11. Nils Luehrmann

    Nils Luehrmann Producer

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    Thank goodness for that! After all, we are FAR from an ideal format that can completely reproduce the original film source and sound. When that happens, I'll still invite new technologies if it also means improved design and cost.

    After all, most formats have a limited lifespan as it is - sadly much of my old 16mm prints are beyond repair, so why would I want to replace them with the same inferior format?

    Nope, I for one always welcome new technology, but just because I welcome it doesn't mean I am committed to being an early adopter - I just know that progress has almost always led to superior products that over time have been a tremendous benefit to me and given me countless hours of valuable entertainment.

    Geez, I'm even looking beyond Hi-Def DVD and am really, really excited on some of the developments being made for ultra high definition displays (2400p). Standard DVD has been and will continue to be a marvelous format and easily the most successful of all previous video formats and probably will remain so for many years to come, but I for one will always support efforts to continually push the envelope on technology.
     
  12. Nils Luehrmann

    Nils Luehrmann Producer

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    First of all those figures are for digital TVs. Not all digital TVs have a native resolution of 720p, and only a miniscule fraction of those have a native resolution of 1080p.

    For projectors, there are no consumer level 1080p digital front projectors for under $20,000, and even then there are only a few to choose from.

    In the US alone there are over half a billion TV sets in operation, of which maybe 5% have the ability to display a native 720p or greater image. We are several years away from a point where the general consumer will likely have a 720p or 1080p display in their house and will desire a Hi-Def video format.
     
  13. Mark Oates

    Mark Oates Supporting Actor

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    I was feeling a tadge disadvantaged as us videophiles this side of the Atlantic will probably have to wait another couple of years for crumbs from the HD table to fall down to us.

    HD Television in Europe is way behind that in the US and Japan. There are only a couple of unexciting-sounding HD services either operating or just plain mooted, and they're just not going to drive a mass-market for HDTV. HD-DVD/ Bluray will have to drive the uptake of receivers, displays and players. DVD has had a phenomenal takeup for a new entertainment format, but that was because of its obvious advantages over videotape. HD-DVD will require personal investment in new displays to make any improvements obvious, and with unit costs in Europe tending to be higher than in the US or Japan, consumers are likely to sit this revolution out. At least until prices fall and there's a more attractive base of software available.

    At any rate, any bugs in the system will be sorted out by that time, so maybe waiting won't be that bad. [​IMG]
     
  14. StevenA

    StevenA Second Unit

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    Is the DLP we're seeing in cinemas comparable to the HD we'll be getting on HD DVDs?
     
  15. Brent M

    Brent M Producer

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    Nils,

    You're exactly right. I think a lot of us fail to realize that having a HDTV is either not important to or not economically feasible for a VERY large percentage of the people in this country. It may be a big deal to those of us here at HTF, but we are a very small group in the grand scheme of things.
     
  16. Ed St. Clair

    Ed St. Clair Producer

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    Yes.
    1080p is coming.
     
  17. Joe Karlosi

    Joe Karlosi Producer

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    Nils,

    Your quote is more than an exaggeration, to say the least. Just to clarify a bit -- I've welcomed different home movie technologies throughout the decades. I was the only person I knew who believed fully in the concept of DVD -- sight unseen! -- when it was first talked about, and I was sold on it as a "movie equivalent of a CD" immediately. I was an early adopter, bought my player at launch in March 1997, and was the only one I knew personally who owned a DVD player for quite some time and was more than happy to throw out my inferior VHS cassettes.

    But what I'm saying is that, for me, I've had enough and am more than satisfied with DVD. I'm 42 now... I don't know how old you are - you may even be older than I am, as you mentioned watching "films" - but I've just reached the point where I'm satisfied with DVD and do not feel a need to re-buy everything for the umpteenth time. To a 25 year old, maybe the prospects of an even better format is exciting. To each his own. But I'm at a point in my life where I want to enjoy what I've got now instead of always looking to upscale to the next format. I didn't always feel that way.
     
  18. Jason Harbaugh

    Jason Harbaugh Cinematographer

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    I think many of us aren't aware of the current trend in HDTV, and that is consumer awareness and education. I don't know about the rest of the nation, but in the Denver area they have been really strong in advertising HDTV as well as trying to educate the casual consumer on why it is better than standard tv. NBC has been the biggest pusher with their local news broadcasts in HD as well as having the only HD equipped helicopter. Add in the tie-ins they have with Soundtrack to sell more HDTV's. The Olympics have also been a major HD advertisement. (even though NBC practically screwed that one up) Everywhere you look, HD is being plugged and I think consumers are starting to listen...or for a better term, see.

    Just look at the numbers. In 2002 it was estimated that 4 million HD capable sets had been sold. It is estimated that by the end of this year that number will have grown to 12 million. It isn't near the penetration point that the FCC wants but it has been a steady rise and 12 million possible customers is not something to scoff at. This is the perfect time to start pushing a new format. Everyone that I have talked to that is interested in buying a new tv has gone straight to the HDTV section. That is their new set, they just want to know how it will benefit them.

    The biggest complaint of HD right now is the lack of content or HD media. Being able to watch dvd's on an HDTV is nice, but that isn't what will sell more tv's. Having an HD media format that consumers can embrace (sorry D-VHS) and will take full advantage of the HD displays is going to push more HDTV's into households.

    But back on topic,
    I love DVD's and have a current collection of almost 400. I have slowed down a lot this year in my DVD purchasing. It used to be that I would get at least one, if not more titles each tuesday. Now I will maybe get one per month. Only hot titles I really want. I am holding out for HD-DVD or Blu-ray. I won't replace my DVD collection when that arrives. Probably just the A titles. But once it is here, I will buy exclusively HD titles of new releases. So the sooner it can get here the better because I know there will be a waiting period to see what studios support which format and how that whole format war works itself out.
     
  19. Barry_B_B

    Barry_B_B Second Unit

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    I waited 3 years after introduction before jumping into DVD and have not regretted it one bit. HD-DVD will get at least the same treatment while I evaluate the market (longevity and availablity of titles), equipment, price trends, etc. In the mean time, my standard DVD collection will selectively but continually keep growing. After all, this will be backward compatible, right? [​IMG]
     
  20. Barry_B_B

    Barry_B_B Second Unit

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    Oh, and Joe K. must be my clone, age and all; hit the nail on the head with a sledgehammer [​IMG]
     

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