RAINTREE COUNTY on Blu? (1 Viewer)

[OliverK]

It never played in 70mm anywhere in the world. It could have played 'roadshow' in 35mm as was common in those days. I wonder what MGM did with the camera 65 negatives?

They are still in storage - for the general release version.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

So, guess what I did this morning?


Went through stuff that was recorded on my Tivo.


Found Raintree County. Forgot I had recorded it at the suggestion of HTF members. I mean, it has been sitting on my Tivo for months.


So, I had a little time this morning. Actually, 3 hours worth of time, to sit and watch this film for the very first time ever.


Now, mind you, I was watching this SD broadcast on a huge 118" screen. Though the TCM presentation seemed to be in its proper aspect ratio, it didn't necessarily look great.


That certainly, however, did not stop me from completely enjoying this film.


It really took me by surprise.


I mean, I have been hearing about Raintree County on this forum for years. You guys have been screaming and yelling every chance you have gotten to get this released on Blu-ray. I just ignored the cries and hoped that Warner would do the right thing for all of you...


...but now I am hoping that they do the right thing for all of us...if they can....and they may not.


Watching this film, it does have some small problems that need to be dealt with including debris, splotches and other markings across the print. Mind you, as I sat through this film, none of it bothered me. It didn't look like the disaster I had thought it would. In all, the film looked pretty darn good for what it was. If Warner released it with a little bit of additional cleanup, it would be more than passable. My opinion.


I really, really liked this film -- particularly the Civil War bonding between Clift and Marvin.


I was even surprised to see a very short cameo by someone I came to know on television many years later --- no, not DeForest Kelley, but rather an elderly gentleman named Burt Mustin. Quite odd, he looks as old in this late 50s film as he does in the early 70s when he appeared in Sanford and Son, All in the Family and other sitcoms.


So, I totally get it. Raintree County is a film that needs to be released to Blu-ray. I am just concerned that Warner is not going to feel it's going to be cost effective to so.

 

[atfree]

So, guess what I did this morning?


Went through stuff that was recorded on my Tivo.


Found Raintree County. Forgot I had recorded it at the suggestion of HTF members. I mean, it has been sitting on my Tivo for months.


So, I had a little time this morning. Actually, 3 hours worth of time, to sit and watch this film for the very first time ever.


Now, mind you, I was watching this SD broadcast on a huge 118" screen. Though the TCM presentation seemed to be in its proper aspect ratio, it didn't necessarily look great.


That certainly, however, did not stop me from completely enjoying this film.


It really took me by surprise.


I mean, I have been hearing about Raintree County on this forum for years. You guys have been screaming and yelling every chance you have gotten to get this released on Blu-ray. I just ignored the cries and hoped that Warner would do the right thing for all of you...


...but now I am hoping that they do the right thing for all of us...if they can....and they may not.


Watching this film, it does have some small problems that need to be dealt with including debris, splotches and other markings across the print. Mind you, as I sat through this film, none of it bothered me. It didn't look like the disaster I had thought it would. In all, the film looked pretty darn good for what it was. If Warner released it with a little bit of additional cleanup, it would be more than passable. My opinion.


I really, really liked this film -- particularly the Civil War bonding between Clift and Marvin.


I was even surprised to see a very short cameo by someone I came to know on television many years later --- no, not DeForest Kelley, but rather an elderly gentleman named Burt Mustin. Quite odd, he looks as old in this late 50s film as he does in the early 70s when he appeared in Sanford and Son, All in the Family and other sitcoms.


So, I totally get it. Raintree County is a film that needs to be released to Blu-ray. I am just concerned that Warner is not going to feel it's going to be cost effective to so.

Ron, I totally agree with you on this one. I saw Raintree County as a teen in the 70's on my local channel's "Million Dollar Movie", shown in 2 parts over 2 days. I've always loved it, but I have become resigned to the fact that, in today's world, Raintree County (along with so many pre-1970 catalog films) are seen as relics both by the studios and the consumer masses. Everything I've read on HTF about the restoration that Raintree County would require leads me to believe that it won't happen.


Having a finance background, I always mentally "run the numbers" on these things. Using completely hypothetical numbers, let's say a full restoration/clean-up/whatever term you want to use to get the original elements in shape for a BD transfer would cost $150,000 for Raintree County (and that number includes BD authoring, pressing, marketing, BD cases, artwork, etc). WB usually prices these catalog BD's at $19.99 MSRP (but they sell for about $14.99 on Amazon, etc). WB would have to sell 7500 BD's at the full $19.99 price (10,000 copies at the $14.99 price point) to BREAK EVEN.


Now, my mind almost fails to comprehend that there aren't at least 10,000 consumers (0.00002% of of the approx. 350 million US population) who wouldn't JUMP at the chance to own Raintree County (and countless other catalog titles), but look at how many of TT's catalog titles take forever to sell even 3,000 copies. Now, I know TT's approach is different (selling only through SAE with little to no marketing outside of very specific avenues), but it is still, IMO, illustrative of the struggles that catalog titles have now.


Frankly, solely from a cost/benefit standpoint, intellectually I fully understand the studios reluctance to spend the dollars for these restorations. But my heart is much less understanding.....

 

[Steve...O]

Atfree- the $150k you quoted for BD prep may be missing a zero. Also, WHV only gets a fraction of the MSRP with each sale. Distributors take a chunk for themselves.

I hope that everyone who wants this on BD gets their wish but the economics make this an uphill battle.

 

[RolandL]

I think WB would like to release the roadshow version, 188 minutes and the full MGM Camera 65 70mm 2.76:1 AR. But they only have the general release 70mm elements. The roadshow footage that was shown on TCM many years ago came from a private collectors 35mm print.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

I haven't been paying too much attention to this thread simply because, up until this morning, I have never seen the film.


Now that I have seen it, I have become a fan. It really is "epic" in many ways. Extremely well made.


As I pointed out, the print on TCM did not look disastrous despite having many blemishes.


I know Warner is not the kind of studio to usually put out anything less than perfect.


However, why would it be so expensive for them to just to a little cleaning and release this film with blemishes intact?


Forgive me for asking something that may already have been asked --- but see the first line of this post.

 

[Allansfirebird]

Seeing this thread pop up again reminds of something I've not been able to find out - is the "reconstructed" version VHS of Raintree County in letterbox format, or is it pan and scanned?

 

[Konstantinos]

However, why would it be so expensive for them to just to a little cleaning and release this film with blemishes intact?

Yes, i don't understand either.

the TCM broadcast looked good enough to me for a Bluray release.

And i wouldn't mind the roadshow scenes either as I saw them at the TCM site.

The Wicker Man I think has worse looking additional scenes on the Bluray but it was released.

Maybe extended Once upon a time in America too? haven't seen that one yet.

 

[JoeDoakes]

RAH indicated that the PQ on some of the films in the Frank Sinatra collection was not at the level of other recent WHV blu releases. Perhaps the archive could release this title without the million dollar restoration.

 

[atfree]

However, why would it be so expensive for them to just to a little cleaning and release this film with blemishes intact?

We would probably need RAH to expound on the "average" costs to release a catalog title like this. But I believe from earlier posts in this thread, this title needs some pretty significant work.

 

[atfree]

RAINTREE COUNTY


This would be a huge restoration, which would probably take decades to recoup.


Seven figures. Easily.


For the short version.


Afaik, the long version only survives in totally faded 35mm prints. Color that existed when the original video was produced, is no more, and I believe all that was extracted was a 4:3 image.


Make no mistake. This can be done.


For the marketplace, let's use 3,000 copies.


How many will sign up at $450 per unit?


I wouldn't bother voting on TCM.


RAH

Here's RAH's post earlier this year.......seven figures....I needed to add a 0 to my cost estimate!

 

[atfree]

Atfree- the $150k you quoted for BD prep may be missing a zero. Also, WHV only gets a fraction of the MSRP with each sale. Distributors take a chunk for themselves.

I hope that everyone who wants this on BD gets their wish but the economics make this an uphill battle.

Yep, no doubt I low-balled but mainly did that to show the uphill battle so many catalog titles, especially ones needing significant restorations, face in getting a BD upgrade.

 

[JoHud]

I think WB would like to release the roadshow version, 188 minutes and the full MGM Camera 65 70mm 2.76:1 AR. But they only have the general release 70mm elements. The roadshow footage that was shown on TCM many years ago came from a private collectors 35mm print.

That may be part of it, and they could be in a continual search for new elements. What's definite is that they do not want to simply restore the theatrical cut, they want to go for broke with the roadshow cut, hence the current stalemate. Though that's not to say restoring the the theatrical cut would not be extremely expensive as is.


The most fortuitous thing to happen would be for them to locate a pristine print, or nearly so, from a foreign archive though with this particular film, the likelihood of that happening would be extremely remote. I just mention it because that is what they have done lately to circumvent paying very high restoration costs, especially for relatively obscure films.

 

[Mark Collins]

I am glad Ron got a chance to view the film. The other fact that he enjoyed it.

The movie really is a classic. The GWTW comparisons have never been fair to it. The former is one of my all time favorites. Raintree I too discovered on TV when it aired on Saturday Night at the Movies and then those syndicated broadcasts in two parts. I loved my extended VHS copy when it first came out but just cannot pull it out anymore.

I still lobby for a release in any way they can possibly do it. I believe one member thought of sending emails to Robert Osborn at TCM.

 

[Robert Harris]

Ron, I totally agree with you on this one. I saw Raintree County as a teen in the 70's on my local channel's "Million Dollar Movie", shown in 2 parts over 2 days. I've always loved it, but I have become resigned to the fact that, in today's world, Raintree County (along with so many pre-1970 catalog films) are seen as relics both by the studios and the consumer masses. Everything I've read on HTF about the restoration that Raintree County would require leads me to believe that it won't happen.

Having a finance background, I always mentally "run the numbers" on these things. Using completely hypothetical numbers, let's say a full restoration/clean-up/whatever term you want to use to get the original elements in shape for a BD transfer would cost $150,000 for Raintree County (and that number includes BD authoring, pressing, marketing, BD cases, artwork, etc). WB usually prices these catalog BD's at $19.99 MSRP (but they sell for about $14.99 on Amazon, etc). WB would have to sell 7500 BD's at the full $19.99 price (10,000 copies at the $14.99 price point) to BREAK EVEN.

Now, my mind almost fails to comprehend that there aren't at least 10,000 consumers (0.00002% of of the approx. 350 million US population) who wouldn't JUMP at the chance to own Raintree County (and countless other catalog titles), but look at how many of TT's catalog titles take forever to sell even 3,000 copies. Now, I know TT's approach is different (selling only through SAE with little to no marketing outside of very specific avenues), but it is still, IMO, illustrative of the struggles that catalog titles have now.

Frankly, solely from a cost/benefit standpoint, intellectually I fully understand the studios reluctance to spend the dollars for these restorations. But my heart is much less understanding.....

Easily seven figures.

 

[Darren Gross]

I wonder if Warners still has the 35mm print of the roadshow cut. If not, perhaps it's in the hands of the same collector who has the A Star is Born roadshow prints. That could be one of the reasons it's a non-starter...

 

[lionel59]

In answer to a question posted above, the VHS release of the longer version (which was actually never Roadshown according to MOVIE ROADSHOWS by Kim R. Holston) was in Letterbox format. I had it but gave it away after it was shown on TCM. It was not in full 2.76:1 but-as with the broadcast version- looked fine in 2.35:1. It can't be owned by the guy who has the 181-minute version of A STAR IS BORN, he won't "come to any parties". I'd be happy with that master converted to 16:9 and released on dvd.A print of the shorter version which looks as good as the one shown recently on TCM would be ok by me on Blu Ray. I would put up with minor, unrestored flaws for the greater clarity and more vibrant colors. Not everything released on Blu Ray is pristine (eg. Olive titles)

 

[Andrew Budgell]

My heart skipped a beat when I saw all of these responses. I thought maybe now was the time and a Blu-ray had been announced. Sigh...

Ron, I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed the film and now see what the fuss is all about. It's nice to have another member on Team Raintree.


The situation with Raintree County really is a shame. It's totally out of circulation on home video and currently the only way to see it is on TCM. But what happens when TCM only broadcasts in true HD? Will Raintree just fade away? It would be a sad fate for one of MGM's biggest films of the 50s and one with such a glittering cast.


Anyway, I'll keep yelling and shouting (in the most polite way possible) for as long as it takes.

 

[Charles Smith]

Ron was only the second to last person in the human race to catch up with Raintree County.


I guess I have my work cut out for me.

 

[Mark Collins]

I am with you Andrew. I also enjoy those Raintree FB posts that I receive from you.

I also love your enthusiasm for all the Taylor films. I only wish Sony would release Suddenly Last Summer. Perhaps TT will take it on.