Questions re TV selection (plasma, LCD, LED) (1 Viewer)

[CanuckChuck]

Hello: I am in the process of purchasing a new TV and, after research and discussions with local television sales people, have some questions. I acknowledge this purchase is for a lower end model that might not interest some readers. Nonetheless, I’d like to purchase the most suitable make and model. Primary type of use: - not a heavy television watcher (news, nature, maybe a couple shows in the evening) - some, but not a lot, of sports (a couple tennis events a year and a lot of hockey during the Stanley Cup playoffs only) - somewhat occasional movie watching - no gaming - some camera home-made video (nature, especially birds) for playback. Presumably will do any editing on a computer. At this point I appear to have things (tentatively) narrowed down to three choices (these are models I’ve seen in local showrooms): 1. Samsung PN43D450 (43”, Plasma, 720p, 600Hz, $470) 2. Samsung LN40D630 (40”, LCD, 1080p, 120Hz, $650) 3. Panasonic TCL42E30 (42”, LED, 1080p, 120Hz, $630) This particular TV has been a demo at Futureshop (Canadian version of Best Buy if I understand correctly) and has been running 12 hours a day, 6.5 days a week, for perhaps 9 months or so (since first arriving at the store). Consequently, this model would probably involve taking out a 4-year store warranty at an additional cost of $170, making it effectively an $800 purchase (a little higher than I was hoping to pay). A few others are close to the mix, including: 4a. Samsung LN40D551 (40”, LCD, 1080p, 60Hz, $524) 4b. Samsung PN43D440 (43”, Plasma, 720p, 600Hz, $460) I do not know the difference between this D440 and the D450 above. Only $10 difference in cost but this (D440) has a 2 year onsite warranty whereas the D450 above only has 1 year onsite warranty. 4c. Panasonic TC42PX34 (42”, Plasma, 720p, $540) 5. Open to suggestions if I am missing something rather obvious. Comments re above: 1. The difference in costs for above listed models is not a big issue if there is reasonable value to offset the differences (exception being that total cost of Panasonic #3 is higher than I hoped which might factor into final decision). 2. The Panasonic (#3) offers 1080p and 120Hz BUT I do not know how to factor in the fact it has been a long-term demo model. 3. I tend not to change televisions very often – probably will use what I purchase for several years (the only TV in the house). 4. For space reasons, 40 – 43” is as large as I can get (a little smaller might be even better but it appears there is not a big selection option between 32” and 40”). 5. I was leaning toward the Samsung 720p Plasma until a sales person discouraged me from getting a 720p model and pointed out the glare that is present on plasma screens (I resist purchasing glossy screen laptops as I prefer a matte finish). Some questions: 1. LCD vs LED – For somewhat normal use, how much better is the LED over LCD? Can an average user appreciate the differences? 2. 1080p vs 720p – I would probably be content to purchase the Samsung Plasma model above (strikes me as perhaps providing more realistic colour representation) except that it is 720p. (It also has less connectivity options – 2 HDMI and 1 USB, but I suspect that will not pose a problem for my type of use). What are the issues for average users with 720p in comparison with 1080p? Is the difference significant to an average user? Apparently TV channels are starting to transmit using 1080 – will this signal readily convert down to 720 without extensive degradation of image quality? 3. Which feature is generally recognized as more desirable: 1080p (over 720p) or 120Hz (over 60Hz)? 4. I currently use a Satellite input signal with a receiver that is approximately 10 years old. Will the receiver need to be updated for any form of HD reception (something I should have asked a local sales person but did not think to do so)? 5. Extended Warranty: In general, are extended warranties for televisions a good investment (I suspect there may not be a clear answer to this question)? 6. In a room with daytime natural lighting (via window, where this TV will be placed), is the glossy finish on a plasma screen likely to produce excessive glare/reflection? Comments welcome with respect to the primary choices and commentary provided above. Thanks to any informed folks who went through everything above (I realize it is lengthy, but figured the additional details might assist in the appropriateness of advice I receive). Regards, Charles

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings LCD/LED ... They are the same. Both are LCD sets. The difference is in the lightbulbs ... LED or CCFL ... If one insists on calling LED backlighting an LED TV .. then no LCD tv exists at all then. Just LED and CCFL TVs. LED allows the thickness to be less than the CCFL. At this price point ... no real difference in image quality. Panny LED has better viewing angle of all the LCD units. Plasma has the best viewing angles period here. Matte finish screens work better in rooms with lots of ambient light, but the plasma is hardly unwatchable. High end LCD might have even more reflection than a plasma. 99% of all people that buy 1080p TVs watch in an effective 720p mode on their TVs and don't notice. Chances of you noticing are slim to none ... especially if you don't plan to calibrate the tv. regards

 

[CanuckChuck]

Thanks, Michael for your reply. I guess I am leaning toward the Plasma at the moment -- the primary concern being glare/reflection which will be difficult to assess until the TV is in the room. The TV is for my mother -- perhaps the Plasma screen will be somewhat similar to the reflection off the CRT unit that it is currently in use. All the best, Charles

 

[Michael TLV]

Greetings In the old days where CRT rear projection sets were on the market, the sales never spiked until they started to put reflective plexiglass fronts on the displays. They may have called it a protective screen but it was there to create a reflection. People were used to the reflections from the CRT so a rptv without a reflection was too foreign ... Put a reflection on it and it is just the same as their home tv ... only larger. Just make sure you set the picture size correctly on the cable box to stretch standard def material because plasma sets will still suffer from burn in if abused. Ignorance counts here ... as abuse. regards

 

[Mike Up]

I'd stay away from Plasma. For the casual viewer, it's very high performance for a low cost but for videophiles, the technology offers more negatives than LCD, CCFL or LED. I bought the LG 50PV450 Plasma and was really discouraged by it. Not 10 minutes out of the box, I seen brightness fluctuations that can be described as strobing (slower fluctuations) and flickering (faster fluctuations). This was very apparent to 'Me' but not the wife, although she seen it. It drove me nuts. The screen reflections were worse than the CRT (picture tube) television it was replacing, which means really bad. It was hard to view the screen unless the drapes were shut and the only lamps on were completely out of the screens viewing area. This brightness fluctuation is a byproduct of the plasma technology. It takes a lot of current and power to make the brightness in these screens and a full white screen would draw to many amps and overload the TV's power supply. Even large areas of brightness could do this as well so the Automatic Brightness Level (ABL) circuit adjusts the picture brightness to keep the circuit from overloading and to keep the picture looking best. The other issue weren't related to watching the TV, but man does this thing put off a lot heat. I believe it had a fan as I could hear something in it running and the heat was literally pushing through the vents. I stood 2' in front of it and it felt like a space heater. Now for the Cold Cathode Florescent Lamp LCD. They offer inferior blacks to the Plasmas and their off center viewing is washed out and dim. However they put out much much better light and white output next to Plasma but have an inferior contrast. They also do not reflect the light as they have a mat screen finish. I actually prefer the CRT to the LCD. Then you have the newest Edge Lit LED LCD which has better off center viewing but has brightness uniformity issues that CCFL doesn't. These sets have been cheaper than higher end CCFL LCD TVs. The better is the Newest Edge Lit LED LCDs TVs with local dimming that turns certain LED zones off. This is better than Plasma and CRT, offering the richest black scenes, best colors, best contrast, and very good off center viewing. The best is a Full Array LED LCD TV where the LEDs are on the back of the TV shining forward. You get better brightness uniformity there and also get less clouding from LEDs that can not turn off in Edge Lit TVs. There is more accurate local dimming so you get the best picture possible. These TVs cost thousands. I bought the LG 47LW5600 Edge lit LED TV with local dimming and am really impressed by the quality. It completely blows away my previous LG 50PV450 Plasma and was PCMag's HDTV of the year. Of course, this is my viewpoint as many others will favor their particular choice and highlight it's benefits over the other technologies. I have Comcast cable which has programming in 480i/480p, 720p, and 1080i. Some say that 720P being progressive looks as good as 1080i being interlaced. I disagree, the 1080i is so much more detailed and what I consider 'true' HiDef. I'm sorry, but I don't consider 720 HiDef, as it's just moderately better than 480i/480P. Now 1080i is worlds better than 480i/480p. Now I don't quite understand all the motion differences but CRT rules as it's motion is flawless. The 50" LG Plasma 50PV450 had no better motion clarity than my LG 47LW5600 LED LCD with 120Hz. In fact, I directly compared the Plasma to my son's 32" CCFL LCD with 60Hz and saw no difference. Comparing the same 32" CCFL LCD to my JVC CRT showed just how much smoother the CRT motion is.

 

[Gregg Loewen]

HI guys. I need to jump in on this

it's very high performance for a low cost but for videophiles, the technology offers more negatives than LCD, CCFL or LED.

Your opinion on this in the EXTREME MINORITY. Plasma is always considered the reference for videophiles.

the richest black scenes, best colors, best contrast, and very good off center viewing.

This comment is not at all accurate (the good off center viewing comment). On a side note....turn 120 hz, or any other advanced processing off (usually). Gregg

 

[GeorgeAB]

My company serves many film and video program production professionals around the world. Frequently, I get to talk to colorists, imaging industry engineers, and studio technicians at length on the phone. I also read SMPTE's 'Motion Imaging Journal' and 'American Cinematographer' every month. The vast majority of input I've received from such motion imaging experts has revealed that most use plasma displays, rather than LCD panels, for critical analysis and showing off their work to clients. Viewing rooms are designed so as not to interfere with picture performance. Of course, anything smaller than 42" has to be LCD. I advise my clients to consider plasma for their primary entertainment display. If ultimate picture quality is the objective when investing in a large format, primary display, to be used for movies (let me check.....yep, this is still the "Home Theater Forum"), I advise my customers to get a plasma, and make provision for adjusting room lighting as needed. There are plenty of other options for general, casual, television use. The mass market TV consumer does not understand, or value, ultimate image quality like the typical, avid, home theater hobbyist/videophile/dedicated cinephile. Most TV consumers want what looks "good enough," is convenient, simple, cheap, and reliable. Oh, yeah, and THIN! It's my conclusion that typical readers of this forum are not the average TV consumer. However, far too few videophile types have been exposed very much to reference-quality images, on calibrated displays, in correct viewing environment conditions. So who do you heed when seeking guidance for mega buck video equipment buying decisions? My advice is to listen to folks who are thoroughly familiar with reference imaging, if ultimate image quality is your top priority. Unfortunately, there's no shortage of less informed, comparatively inexperienced folks on forums eager to assertively voice their opinions. What is popular does not always equate with what is correct. There is no perfect electronic display. Each type has weaknesses and strong points. Be clear about your priorities. If image fidelity is top priority in a television, get the best plasma you can afford. Best regards and beautiful pictures, G. Alan Brown, President CinemaQuest, Inc. A Lion AV Consultants Affiliate "Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

 

[Mike Up]

HI guys. I need to jump in on this

it's very high performance for a low cost but for videophiles, the technology offers more negatives than LCD, CCFL or LED.

Your opinion on this in the EXTREME MINORITY. Plasma is always considered the reference for videophiles.

the richest black scenes, best colors, best contrast, and very good off center viewing.

This comment is not at all accurate (the good off center viewing comment). On a side note....turn 120 hz, or any other advanced processing off (usually). Gregg

I don't believe my viewpoint is the minority. There are a lot of individuals who learned the negatives of plasma the hard way, as I did, since it's hard to see them in a brightly lit store front. In fact I thought my plasma was defective with the brightness fluctuations until I read that all owners were experiencing this and some had 'learned' to ignore it. I agree that some Plasma have better performance but there's LED LCD TVs that outperform many. That LG Plasma I had, had poorer black levels than what I get with my LED LCD. Now with my LG 47LW5600 Television, I can get very high contrast viewing off center with it. With my Son's 32" CCFL LCD we can not as it quickly washes out and dims as soon as you're off center. I've seen many professional reviewers that had their reference being a Full Array LED LCD and not a Plasma, and actually reviewed many Edge Lit LED LCD TVs as bettering many plasma TV, not all but many. I use to believe Plasma was the end all and why I bought one and was severely disappointed with my LG 50PV450 choice with the lower overall brightness output, and inferior black levels to my JVC CRT AV-36D302 Television. It did have very good white level output and color. While I would love to keep my living room a home theater 24/7, I have a family and that is just not possible. So I have to learn to enjoy watching movies and shows with the lamps on and even during the day with the drapes open. The reflectiveness of my JVC CRT was distracting but tolerable. With the LG Plasma, it was so mirror like, that I always had television programming with mirror reflections of my living room in the background of the picture. It made watching some dark scenes nearly impossible. Brighter scenes helped in drowning out the reflections. The LG 47LW5600 is not perfect as I do get some minor clouding near the edges of the screen where dark areas border the TV's edges, while bright areas are more centered. While it is visible, it's not much worse than the picture blooming I experienced with my JVC AV-36D302 that I paid more for, not even 10 years ago. I turn off all artificial processing when I do critical viewing, just as I do when I do critical listening on my Denon AVR. BTW, I did find that Best Buy did have their 60" Plasma's positioned to keep the lighting off of them as much as possible. Even with the bright lighting still, I saw the same brightness fluctation flickering on the Panasonic 60ST30 plasma TV that I seen on my previous LG 50PV450 plasma TV, while none of the LCD exhibited the defect. I guess we'll agree to disagree.