"ON TRIAL: LEE HARVEY OSWALD" -- A Personal Review

Discussion in 'TV on DVD and Blu-ray' started by David Von Pein, Oct 28, 2008.

  1. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Messages:
    6,531
    Likes Received:
    15

    I'm afraid that's just what it was. Hard to believe, but that's just what it was. The charismatic, handsome, young father and leader of the free world cut down in his prime, his brains blown all over his wife's dress, by an insane nobody who thought it would make him a somebody. Of course we want a conspiracy, because in reality, the trade off really, really sucks. Doesn't make it any less true, but it really, really sucks.

    "He didn't even have the satisfaction of being killed for civil rights. It had to be some silly little Communist."

    - Jacqueline Kennedy
     
  2. Jeff Willis

    Jeff Willis Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    3,387
    Likes Received:
    244
    Location:
    Dallas TX
    As a native Dallasite who was around when it happened, it's my belief that Ozwald did it. One reason that I think this is true is that the killing of Officer Tippett says a lot about this case. That case is an open/shut case and I think that indicates who killed JFK.

    That said, Danny makes some points here that are interesting. I don't claim to have studied the JFK case but on the surface there seemed to be inconsistancies with some of the stories.

    There are a couple of other points that make me believe that Ozwald did the killing:

    It's always seemed to me that, if there were a planned conspiracy, we'd have heard about it by now. The media usually breaks most stories eventually...someone will surface, say something, etc.

    The other point that made an impression to me about the lone-gunman belief was that TV special that was shot in Australia years ago where the exact distances, etc, were duplicated for an expert marksman with human-like dummies in a vehicle traveling at the same speed, etc. If I recall, the marksman duplicated the same incident as in Dealy Plaza on that infamous day with the same entrance/exit wounds as were on the JFK & Connally bodies.

    Something that I've wondered about over the years was this....what if Ozwald were the lone killer but that there were other gunmen in Dealy Plaza that day to insure the death of JFK? The other gunmen didn't fire shots but may have been seen behind the fence on the knoll. That would have proved a conspiracy as well as the lone-gunman belief.

    It's just something that I've thought about over the years.
     
  3. Jack P

    Jack P Producer

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    3,890
    Likes Received:
    1,159
    Jacqueline Kennedy's quote is rather sad, because to have been killed by a "silly communist" only highlights in fact the matter of how JFK should have been ultimately viewed as a martyr in the great struggle that the Cold War was, and why communist ideology represented the evil that it did during that time. Instead, even those who had the sense to realize Oswald did it, attempted to downplay ideology in his motive and instead served up a lot of nonsense about how JFK's murder said something about the American character when it did not.
     
  4. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Messages:
    6,531
    Likes Received:
    15


    I don't know about that. As Communists go; Lee Harvey Oswald was about as little and silly as there ever was. He wasn't a KGB agent or an operative from Spaetznaz; he was a silly little commie, who ultimately wasn't even wanted by the commies themselves. Although he dreamed of being a Communist hero and legend, he was hardly someone the world could ever see representing the true power and menace of Communist ideology. True to his nature, Oswald even failed at that.
     
  5. Colin Jacobson

    Colin Jacobson Producer

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2000
    Messages:
    5,928
    Likes Received:
    498

    Some folks - and I include myself - can't do that because it means the conspiracy theories deserve some credence. They don't. If someone argued vehemently that Dan Quayle was elected president in 2004 and that person wouldn't back down from their claim, would you "agree to disagree"? No - you'd just think the person was a nut, but you can't really just "disagree" on something that's a fact.

    And that's the case with the JFK assassination. I'd no sooner "agree to disagree" with a conspiracy nut than I'd "agree to disagree" with someone who thinks the world is flat...
     
  6. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Messages:
    26,645
    Likes Received:
    3,808
    Location:
    The basement of the FBI building
    But it's like religion and politics, you most likely aren't going to change anyone's mind.
     
  7. RobertR

    RobertR Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 1998
    Messages:
    9,694
    Likes Received:
    164
    Perhaps not, but for those who haven't gone into "true believer" territory, but might be thinking "hmmm, maybe the believer's claims have some credence", it IS important to debunk such claims by exposing the flawed reasoning/methodology, distorted/made-up facts, and sheer wishful thinking behind them. Such nonsense should ALWAYS be challenged.
     
  8. SwatiShankar

    SwatiShankar Auditioning

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2009
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    "ON TRIAL: LEE HARVEY OSWALD" -- A Personal Review
    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  9. Neil Brock

    Neil Brock Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,740
    Likes Received:
    760
    I always wondered where the small minority of people were who actually believed the Warren Report. Lo and behold, they're all here on the HTF!

    Figures you would be one of them, Oatsy.
     
  10. MohanShankar

    MohanShankar Auditioning

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2009
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    The above quote came from the lips of Mrs
    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  11. Jeff Willis

    Jeff Willis Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    3,387
    Likes Received:
    244
    Location:
    Dallas TX
    I still think Ozwald pulled the trigger alone but I can't rule out a possible conspiracy with others either involved or perhaps with prior knowledge of what was going to take place in Dealy Plaza that day.
     
  12. RobertR

    RobertR Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 1998
    Messages:
    9,694
    Likes Received:
    164
    Keep in mind, though, that there's a difference between saying the facts and evidence show there was a conspiracy and saying you can't prove a negative (ie "prove there wasn't a conspiracy"). Asking people to prove a negative is a logical absurdity.
     
  13. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Messages:
    6,531
    Likes Received:
    15

    “No one in this world has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people."

    - H.L Mencken
     
  14. David_B_K

    David_B_K Advanced Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,957
    Likes Received:
    397
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Real Name:
    David

    That is probably true, but if people open their minds, and come to grips with the idea that many of the conspiracy theory "facts" are not true, they can see the validity of the Warren report and the lone gunman/single bullet "theories".

    I used to be a JFK conspiracy nut. I still remember watching The Men Who Killed Kennedy and Oliver Stone's JFK lapping up every bit of it. I now find those films ridiculous. The conspiracy theories are based on nothing, IMO. I'm not trying to prolong the argument. I just wanted to mention it is possible to reject the conspiracy side and accept the evidence that Oswald dunnit. Alone.
     
  15. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Messages:
    6,531
    Likes Received:
    15

    Some can do this, but as you've seen in this very thread, most just hop from theory to theory; ignoring the fact each theory spouted contradicts the next (i.e. The Mob did it . . . and the Dallas PD covered it up . . . with help from the Secret Service . . . and the Doctors at the hospital!!), or each theory is shot down in seconds by those with the appropriate facts. Culminate all this with a statement like "Hey, I don't have all the answers, but the questions have to be asked" and you have the futility of arguing the JFK conspiracy in a nutshell.
     
  16. Colin Jacobson

    Colin Jacobson Producer

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2000
    Messages:
    5,928
    Likes Received:
    498

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Colin Jacobson

    Colin Jacobson Producer

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2000
    Messages:
    5,928
    Likes Received:
    498

    Agreed for the most part, though I think that's true only for the die-hard conspiracy nuts. I think 99% of the believe who believe there was a conspiracy know very little about the assassination. They've heard bits and pieces, they saw JFK - that's about it.

    That used to be me. I was SURE there was a conspiracy after I saw JFK! Then I actually did some reading and found out what a load of crap that movie was, and I firmly moved to the "no conspiracy" side of the street.

    No, all the facts in the world won't affect the mindset of the conspiracy nut jobs. The ghost of LHO could come back and tell them he did it and they'd STILL believe in their absurd theories. While I won't "agree to disagree" with them - because that means I'd have to give their ridiculous ideas some credence - I also prefer not to engage them. There's just no point.

    But those obsessives remain a very small minority. Like I said, the vast majority of people know next to nothing about the assassination, and once you give them some actual facts, they can see how stupid the conspiracy theories are...
     
  18. RobertR

    RobertR Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 1998
    Messages:
    9,694
    Likes Received:
    164
    I have to shake my head at the endless trotting out of theories, which is obviously done in an attempt to hide the fact that each previous theory is shown to be nonsensical ("never mind what I claimed a minute ago! What about this?"). Pathetic.
     
  19. Jeff Gatie

    Jeff Gatie Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2002
    Messages:
    6,531
    Likes Received:
    15

    Bugliosi has a chapter on the truly loony theories that are the end result of the "never mind what I claimed a minute ago! What about this" obfuscation technique. The absurdity of the claims in that chapter (switched bodies, JFK wasn't even in Dallas, cardboard coffins, Lee Harvey Oswald's KGB trained identical twin, etc.) could drive even hardcore conspiracy nuts to question their allegiance.
     
  20. Neil Brock

    Neil Brock Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2009
    Messages:
    2,740
    Likes Received:
    760
    Still haven't gotten an answer yet on why the limo, the actual CRIME SCENE, where the most actual evidence might exist, was immediately wiped clean of ALL evidence. Please explain exactly why that was done and why it would be done. What, because in the few hours after the murder all of the possible evidence they could ever hope to find had been found and there was no possible need to look at it anymore?
     

Share This Page