***Official LOST IN TRANSLATION Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

[Ted Lee]

does every film have to be so politically correct??? :frowning:

that's not even what this movie is about.

it's simply about two people in a strange place, discovering eachother, loving eachother, and spending some time together.

 

[Richard Kim]

I did not find the portrayal of the Japanese in LIT to be offensive at all. Consider that most of the Japanese people that Bob interacts with are part of the entertainment industry and is due to buisness rather than pleasure (the Premium Fantasy lady being the exception. ), and of course, Bob is not exactly thrilled at the prospect of filming a whiskey commercial when he "could be doing a play somewhere." As pointed out earlier, the non Japanese characters (like Charlotte's husband and especially the Anna Faris character) are stereotypes and not fleshed out. The ordinary folks that Bob and Charlotte interact with and/or witness are treated more sypathetically.

One of the reasons I enjoyed and related to LIT is because it recaptured the experience of my visit to Tokyo a few years back.

Now if you wanna talk offensive and grotesque Japanese stereotypes, look no further than the gameshow Banzai that aired on Fox last summer. I'm glad that show got canned.

 

[JonZ]

"I did not find the portrayal of the Japanese in LIT to be offensive at all"

Me neither

 

[Kelly...]

I've just seen this film (long time coming) and I wasn't disappointed. I really liked this film plain and simple. I was wondering if you guys can help me with something. I'm looking for one line that I can't really remember. It was something "Bob" says when he and "Charlotte" are lying on his bed talking about life. Something like "when you've found something you really want, you don't let anything upset you".

Many thanks in advance^^

 

[AdeleW]

>

I didn't either. Its hard to find movies that don't "stereotype" things. We all do it - its natural. You don't even wanna know what kind of flack I took when I moved to Texas from Jersey , and the stuff I get when I go back to visit! Sometimes its just easier to identify with things that are familiar - even if they are neglegent of truth.

I didn't think the women doing Ikebana were being "made fun of" and heck even *I* do water aerobics - helps when you have bad knees - and was cracking up. ( Did anyone else enjoy the use of sound in that scene by the way? I thought the change from above and under water sound was a good touch )

I'm all for diversity and understanding ( Im a sociology major even! ) but all the PC stuff drives me crazy sometimes, especially when it comes to being able to enjoy a book, a film or a play.

Having said that anyone who knows me knows how much I love this film. The extras on the DVD made it that much better - especially Sofias giant crush on Bill - how sweet.

 

[Alex Spindler]

Kelly, I think you're looking for:
"The more you know who you are, and what you want, the less you let things upset you. "

It's also featured in the excellent trailer.

 

[Shane Gralaw]

Well, guys- good points on the other two-dimensional characters. I guess my argument is less a PC one and more against a general lack of depth in the film, apart from the central two characters, and I must have mentioned the Japanese stereotypes as that is just the most obvious example so that is the one that put me off first (having seen the film after just having returned from living in Tokyo). But you are right. The simpleton photographer husband, the cheesy lounge singer, the ditzy Hollywood starlet, and the nagging carpet-swatch obsessed wife are all fairly flat and obvious characters. But if anything, that is another knock against the film.

I guess it is more of a gut reaction, either you feel that it works or you don't. Taking Ms. Coppola's previous film as an example, you don't really get to know the girls in The Virgin Suicides that well, or their parents or the neighborhood boys, for that matter. But for me the film had an emotional impact and it worked. Lost in Translation left me flat. Maybe it is a problem of expectations. This film was already thoroughly hyped from the get-go so maybe I was expecting more. If I had seen it completely fresh, not having liked The Virgin Suicides so much and not having read these glowing reviews, I might have been less disappointed. But then again, perhaps not.

 

[Kevin Thompson]

I keep saying that I'm not going to make any more blind DVD purchases, but I went ahead and picked up "Lost in Translation" anyway, based on the critical acclaim it has received, and because I have enjoyed Bill Murray's work in the past--"The Razor's Edge" being the notable exception.

I'm afraid I'm in the minority on this one. The characters were bored. (So was I, after 30 minutes or so.) Because they were bored, they turned in a direction they might not otherwise have gone. They discovered in themselves the ability to befriend, and later care deeply for, someone outside their own generation. While this may be quite difficult for many people, these days, I don't think there was anything truly profound, here.

Or am I missing something?

 

[Dome Vongvises]

It's a valid criticism to say that the supporting characters lack depth, but I try to look at it from the alternate universe angle, and I see that the possibility exists where it can detract from the main focus and story of the film.

 

[Alex Spindler]

I think it is fairly important for the supporting characters in this universe to be somewhat non-dimensional. As soon as you introduce any other characters that have depth and are interesting, you no longer have a world that the mains are cast adrift in.

Take, for example, his wife. If Bob's wife were attentive to his plight, or had something profound to say, then you would be yelling at him to stop moping around. Charlotte is talking with her husband and his friends, and they might as well be speaking Japanese for all that she could gain from it. I mean, she is even talking to someone and he goes on about his musical mixing philosophies and she hasn't connected with him at all.

This is one of those rare circumstances when flat and one-note supporting characters is an asset to the film. Anything more and it ruins the environment the film carefully builds. Not only do Bob and Charlotte find each other in this film, but we're drawn to both of them because the film is so focused on them that all of background characters are just that.

I suppose a dangerous line is tread when your establishing the mood for bored characters that you may make some of the audience bored as well. But I think that helps make the feast at the end of a string of TV dinners all the better.

 

[Seth Paxton]

As soon as you introduce any other characters that have depth and are interesting, you no longer have a world that the mains are cast adrift in.

 

[Shane Gralaw]

There is no difference between the others being too short and him being TOO TALL. If it were NYC and it was a 7'3" guy then it would suddenly not be stereotypical?

It is not a stereotype that New Yorkers are shorter than 7'3". It is an (incorrect) stereotype that Japanese people are really short. I can't tell you how many of my friends in the US emailed me to ask "What is it like towering over everyone?" (I am about 5'10"). The answer was "I don't tower over everyone." Many Japanese men were as tall as me. Some taller. Unless you are, in fact, 7'3" the likelihood of you going to Tokyo, getting on an elevator and being that much taller than everyone else is unlikely. It might make some sort of statement about Bill's character being an outsider, but the shot makes that point by playing on an existing stereotype to make a visual joke.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

There are always exceptions to the rule. I'm Thai, and I tower over all my relatives. The only person taller than me is my brother.

Again, I think expectations have a lot to do with how people interact with this film. To most people (and it's hard to argue even from my perspective), Asians are rather short relative to other people on average. That's why folks like Yao Ming and Wong Zhezhe (sp?) are rarities. Even a film like Ocean's 11 plays on this.

But to some people, they simply don't see or acknowledge these differences. Their justifications are certainly valid, but I'm finding it hard to accept why these simple physical differences have negative connotations to them or why they shouldn't be there. If we didn't have ways of contrasting physical differences, people would be in a lot of trouble, particularly scientists who sit and identify tissues all day (I hate histology by the way).

Of course on the other hand, I can see why people have problems accepting behavioral stereotypes. But again, I think it boils down to how you look at it and only what you're aware of. Not every Japanese person spends their time on Dance Dance Revolution or playing in Pachinko bars, but it does happen more often than not relatively speaking.

 

[Eric Peterson]

I'll start off by saying that I absolutely loved this movie. I've watched it three times now and each time it only gets better. Hands down my favorite from last year with the only close runner being Monster.

Now, it seems that most of the negative opinions are related to either the pacing or the stereotypes. I can't debate about the pacing, as I found it to be a very short movie. If it's too slow for your tastes, then thats your opinion and there's nothing to debate.

However, the remarks about the stereotypes absolutely befuddles me. I don't find the stereotypes derogatory at all.

If you viewed every movie ever made, you'd find a stereotype in damn near every film, so I don't see this as a valid complaint. The only way to set up a character in a film is to make them sterotypical to some degree, otherwise every movie would be infinite in length in order to properly describe each charcter. The old saying goes something like this "It takes a lifetime to get to know somebody". The viewer has to make some assumptions about a character in order to understand them and these assumptions are generally based on stereotypes. In the case of LIT, there really are only two characters, so the surrounding characters have to be stereotypes for this film to work at all. The stereotypes may be a bit stronger in this film, but that's to make a point that I describe below.

I also agree with most of the other fans of the movie in saying that the stereotypes are even more important in this film than most others. This requirement is needed to emphasize the "Fish out of Water" theme that is the center of Scarlett's and Bill's characters. This is a common theme through movie history and it's almost always based on the central character(s) being surrounded by strong stereotypes, and I don't think this makes those stereotypes wrong.

Let's also remember that the actor's playing these "Stereotypes" are Japanese. If the characters are supposedly so offensive, then how did they find actors to play them?

By the way, my Mom loved the movie and my Dad hated it. That's a total reversal for me, so the film obviously has it's ability to polarize it's viewers.

 

[Alex Spindler]

Very interesting comparison there, and not one that I had considered. Certainly more romantically inclined, but it has a good deal of nice parallels.

 

[DaveGTP]

It's a valid criticism to say that the supporting characters lack depth, but I try to look at it from the alternate universe angle, and I see that the possibility exists where it can detract from the main focus and story of the film.

I'm with Dome on this one. Making any of the 2D characters 3D would have punched a hole in the adrift & alone feelings that Copolla & crew were trying to evoke.

And I hate anything that comes across as racist, stereotypical, etc. Yes, not all Japanese people are short. But yes, their average height is less! You don't have to carefully mix in a 6ft Japanese guy to avoid stereotyping. I found nothing ACTUALLY offensive or portraying Japanese people negatively as dumb, inferior, midgets, etc. Yes, some stereotyping was going here and there to quickly create an atmosphere or a 2D character. It wasn't negative stereotyping, just a quick shortcut - like showing a drunk guy with a shotgun to show that you are out in the middle of nowhere.

Keep PC editing every scene, movie, etc and you end up with the cast of the Captain Planet cartoon. How well would that work?

 

[Peter Kim]

I'll preface what I say with my evidence is purely anecdotal. In my experience, with trips to both South Korea & Japan, and my relationships with Koreans and Japanese (if not egregious by now, I'm Korean), Asians in general are shorter than Americans. I'm 6'00" and I do find myself towering over other asians in the elevator more often than not. I also think it's not entirely best to use Tokyo as a baseline for the rest of Japan - not everyone in Japan dresses like those in Harajuku.

My wife, who is native Japanese, claims that she and her family are of 'average' height. If I were to extrapolate this to the remainder of Japanese society, then they are shorter.

Neither my wife nor I got a racist vibe from this film. That which was most evocative for my wife was a sense of homesickness.

 

[Shane Gralaw]

I still don't buy that you need stereotypes for shortcuts. Look at Jim Jarmusch films, where he often has a foreign fish-out-of-water type character. Take Mystery Train, for example. The Memphis characters were quirky without being a bad stereotype of the "eccentric southerner", because the director bothered to invest them with some individual personality traits. It didn't take a lot of screen time to do this either. You don't need to give a supporting character a lot of screentime, a snippet of dialogue can suffice if the director is more skillful.

And yes, on average Japanese are shorter. But I am teaching in Mexico now (the food is better than Japan) and, on average, the Mexicans are shorter too. Still, it's not like I walk around here going "wow, everyone is so short, I'm so unususal" because there are more than enough tall people, too- just like Japan. I think the distinction is between generalizations and stereotypes. There is not necessarily a "Mexicans are short" stereotype to live up (or down) to. The reason it is off-putting is not that it's racist, but because it is cheap and obvious and not necessarily true. Now there are other anatomical generalizations you can make about the Japanese that ARE true, and if you want to put those in a movie, fine. But the height issue I will argue.

 

[Lew Crippen]

. But I am teaching in Mexico now (the food is better than Japan)

Off topic for sure, but I find that a very interesting statement. And one with which I would take issue—not that I love Mexican food less, but that I love Japanese more.

I would suggest that the Japanese cuisine is far more complex in taste sensations, it can be much more subtle and it is certainly much more elegant in presentation.

But this is just I. I have a good many friends who feel differently and head for the nearest western, fast-food outlet.

I write this as a person who actively seeks out Mexican food of all types and regions.

 

[Alex Spindler]

Is that really a fair comparison, Mystery Train to LiT? The southern characters in MT were much more interactive in the storyline. And it isn't so much that Bob and Charlotte are fish out of water (out of their natural environment) as they are lacking an environment for which they feel comfortable (like a robot on wheels built in a lab with all stairs). They find as little comfort in the Americans they meet as with the Japanese. Look at how Bill reacts to the banal praises of his fans in the bar - he unceremoniously gets up and moves seats.

I think the landscape they create (or people and places) is what makes LiT so special. Several films have been mentioned about finding love in a foreign land, but Bob and Charlotte's soulful connection stands out in stark relief to the alienating environment of the movie.

Also, some random site has a chart stating the average Japanese male height at 5'5", which would give an accurate view in the elevator to Bill Murray's 6' stature.