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***Official LOST IN TRANSLATION Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

Fred Bang

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I just want to bring in my opinion regarding all this nonsense about offense toward asian people.

I am myself part-vietnamiese(and do not speak that foreign language) and often, family members comes at my house and do not understand a word of English (or French). The ensuing "conversations" are exactly like the ones in Lost in Translation (the hospital scene, for example). It amounts to funny situations where both sides laugh at each others misunderstanding of the language.

And I hear nobody cry out that LIT is offensive toward Americans! After all, its Bob that doesn't understand the language.

So please, drop this nonsense and see that surely, if it seems offensive, it was not Coppola's intent to make it offensive.
 

Mark-W

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Shane-

I appreciate your point of view, and in fact, you have given me pause to think about some films and whether they are being artistically "lazy" or not. Queer as Folk, the 'hit' show on Showtime, uses stereotypes to try to shock and provoke without being in the least creative about it, and I am talking about the principle characters... In Legally Blonde, and most of the other films I have seen with gay characters that are merely supporting players, I find little reason for "offense," even long before gay characters were represented as "well-rounded" in films.

(Funny how some gay people take the most offense with regard to representation in "gay films" like Boys in the Band, which was written by an opennly gay man who based the characters on different aspects of himself.)

Having said this, I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on Lost in Translation, and actually "Mannequin." ("Mannequin" is far from a good movie, but West Hollywood has more "life" in that film than just about anyone else. No character in that film has any depth, and simply by virture of the fact that Hollywood is a gay black man doesn't mean his character should've been more fleshed out than any of the others for the sake of representation.)

It seems pretty clear to me that if Lost In Translation had the kinds of changes you would make to it, it would be more PC but a lesser film... and certainly artistically compromised IMHO.

Regards,

Mark
 

Chris Farmer

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Was I the only one that thought or Three Colors: Red as I watched this movie? Both are movies about a connection that is formed between an older man and a young woman, there's no sex, there's not even "romance" in the traditional sense, but if one were 20 years younger or the other 20 years older, there might be.

As for the stereotypes, I wasn't bothered by them at all because of the movie's perspective. When you travel to a foreign place, you don't notice what is the same, you notice what's different. I live in Texas, when I went to Minnesota over the holidays I noticed, among other things, that the weather was far far colder, that there was little ethnic diversity, the stereotypical Minnesota accent (which is very real), and the fact that even the woman towered over me. I'm 5'6", and it seemed like up there 5'10" was the minimum average height for the women. Sure, there were people my height there, and the accent was present but people still spoke English, and there were other races there (although no hispanics whatsoever), but you don't notice the similarities. Your attention is drawn to the differences, what's not like your home. And this experience is just form within the US. I can only imagine that it is a sensation that would only be heightened when you visit a foreign country, especially in the first week or so before you get adjusted to the culture (the time period that is being presented here). This goes double for a culture that is so highly different from our Western norms like Japan.

So whatit comes down to, is that feeling of isolation the Bob and Charlotte feel is heightened because htye are both actively looking for and seeking out things that raise that isolation even higher. Sure there's plenty of normal things, but they're glossed over. Had the movie taken place after a few months in Japan, I doubt the stereotypes would hae been apparent, because by then the characters would have become accustomed to things. When I went to visit my family in Minnesota (they moved over the summer while I was in college), they didn't even notice the cold, the accents, the homogeny of the population. It's only notable when it's new and foreign, and I feel the way the movie portrayed this was well done.

As for the nightclub singer, I passed it off not so much that Murrray was looking form something as he was too tired and too drunk to care. His wife had just blown him off, he was taking down drink after drink in the bar, and the singer wanted him. It was the exact opposite of the hooker earlier, he was too worn down to resist the singer's advances. This I think is why he was so disgusted and to me surprised when he woke up the next morning. He didn't see much more then we the audience did. He was in the bar, next thing he knew he was waking up the next morning having cheated on his wife. Oops.

As for the last line, maxing out my volume I distinctly heard, at the ned of Murray's line "that you love him."
 

Alex Spindler

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I have to say I've enjoyed these discussions a great deal. In listening to the arguments against certain aspects of the film, it's forced me to reappraise it and I've come out with a greater appreciation for the film itself and especially Coppola's script.

I was thinking my way through the scenes in the film and I realized that there is a distinct change in how Bob approaches his situation the longer he knows Charlotte. In the beginning of the film, he is passively reacting to everything in his environment. He's clearly in Japan because he has been told to by his agent or his wife despite his desire to be performing in a play. His wife is making all of the remodeling decisions in the house and his reactions to the Japanese is quiet resignation that he doesn't understand.

As he comes to know Charlotte, his attitude gradually changes. He's engaging people in the dance club to conversation (despite still not knowing the language). He engages his wife more steadily in topics like changing his life and diet. He actively engages the old man in the hospital to discussion. He takes the reigns and avoids his entourage and chooses to be on the television show. It's a great progression throughout the film.
 

Josh Dial

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I've been to Japan. My g/f lived there for a time. We both speak Japanese.

The way Japan and her culture is portrayed in the movie is highly accurate to how it is perceived by a tourist, and even fairly accurate to how the entertainment and nightlife aspect actually IS.

cheers!

Josh
 

Chris Farmer

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Lew, it is. San Antonio has the best Mexican food on the planet, better even then in Mexico (of course, it's not true Mexican food there, as I'm sure oyu know, but it still is great). Skip the RiverWalk, that's the tlurist trap restaurants. The real gems are found in Market Square.
 

Shane Gralaw

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Does anyone else find the Charolette character uninteresting? The scene where she does a big boo-hoo over the fact that she doesn't feel anything in the Shinto shrine turned me off. It's like "Oh poor Ivy league girl who expected to have this life altering experience by witnessing, for a few minutes, a Shinto ritual didn't and has to cry to folks back home." Granted, some of the dialogue between her and Murray is quite clever and whatnot, but I didn't really give a damn about her shallow self and her imperious dissing of other characters didn't help either. Honestly, without Murray, this film would be completely a waste. Why should he care about her? Other than being cute, what is the attraction? She is "lost" like him, but is that really enough to make her someone that you should be even vaguely interested in? She might be someone I would hang with if I were truly desperate for company, but we are talking truly TRULY desperate.
 

AdeleW

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I agree Chris - have you been there during La Fiesta ( I think thats what its called ) Its quite fun ( even if the crowds are a little much ). I have friends and such that went to Trinity and we visit often - I love that town! If I weren't still in school in San Marcos we'd move there for sure :)
 

Jason_Els

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WOW! What a beautiful and subtle character study. I rented this only for its Oscar nomination thinking it was a typical Bill Murray comedy but I couldn't have been more wrong. I admit I fell in love with Scarlett Johannson from my first view of her. I wanted to smack around her dingbat husband a few times.

I don't think it's an accident this was filmed in Japan. The Japanese aesthetic clearly matches the style of the film. It's subtle, minimal, and lingering. I agree with the previous reviewers who stated that the film really has no plot but I disagree about some scenes being tacked-on.

The Kyoto scene has Charlotte passing a recently married couple and as she sees them we sense that she's reliving her own memories of her wedding. All the hopes, the intense romance, a future of being happy together. Yet she's outside this couple as she's outside everything else taking place in this country. Already she's questioning if marrying was the right thing for her. We sense that she knows what that couple does not and is wiser for it.

The temple scene is exactly correct. She comes to it looking for some kind of consolation and finds none. To her Japan is curious but alien and something she can't experience as anything other than a Westerner.

I also believe the sex club scene is completely appropriate. It accomplishes a few things. First, it lets us know that Bob isn't secretly being smooth, trying to get into bed with Charlotte. His idea of sex clearly isn't the crotch shots we see in the club as it isn't domination games with a daffy Japanese call girl. We can assume that as an A-list actor he had the pick of women and sowed plenty of wild oats; at his age he wants love and meaning with his sex. This is reinforced when he apparently sleeps with the lounge singer. When he awakes he has no memory of the night before and is clearly disappointed with himself for having fallen prey to the adventuress singing the tarty Midnight at the Oasis. But the sex club scene also tells us there's a sexual tension going on between Bob and Charlotte. They don't stay in the club, they leave immediately as if being confronted with sex is a threat to their friendship. I think they both realize sex would turn their relationship into a cheap affair and the resultant heartbreak that inevitably follows would tarnish the beautiful partnership they've created. We see this again at the shabu-shabu restaurant when Charlotte is clearly disappointed in Bob for having succumbed. We can tell she wants to think better of him and she expresses this in her jealousy. Thankfully Bob is disarming enough to let her comments slide after a quick retort and then they both decide to let it slide. There isn't enough time for jealousy when both know they can't risk going any further.
 

Alex Spindler

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For me, I really started to like her as she was gamely listening to the soul searching CD. After that every encounter she had seemed to flesh her out more and made their connection feel just right and never forced. By the end, I was totally hooked on both of them and didn't want it to end. I think you're reactions are to her when she is feeling a bit stifled in the role of the career wife, which isn't something she is cut out for. She grows more into her element when she is with Bob, which I think reflects her true character best.

Of course, having her deliver that Pretender's song went a long way towards locking me down in the "I love Charlotte" camp.
 

Jason_Els

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Of course, having her deliver that Pretender's song went a long way towards locking me down in the "I love Charlotte" camp.
Yup! That was it. My surrender was complete. But when it drifted into More Than This.... I just fell in love with this movie. I even gasped out loud, "Perfect!" What perfect musical choices for these two.
 

Shane Gralaw

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And as for Mexican food, Austin has some amazing places as well. Even though I am in Mexico now, I haven't found anything to rival the Chuychanga with deluxe tomatillo sauce at Chuy's. The mole is better here, though.
 

Dave Poehlman

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Rented this the other night and loved it. I kind of knew what to expect from the good and bad reviews I've heard from friends and on here. ie:
DON'T RENT THIS, BUY THIS, OR GET NEAR THIS MOVIE, UNLESS YOU TRULY HAVE THE DESPERATE NEED TO GO INTO A DEEP SLEEP.
:)

I think this film is a refreshing departure from the stereotypical romantic comedy.

I'm also excited to see Murray's comedy becoming something more subtle and cerebral.
 

Lew Crippen

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I agree Chris - have you been there during La Fiesta
I have been--and thought I agree with Chris as to the tourist bit, that is a good time for the Riverwalk. I'd never eat there however, at least for the food.

Strange turn for a thread about a movie shot in Japan.

So has anyone else been to San Antonio, Tokoyo and Kyoto?
 

Shane Gralaw

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Umm, how about a shot at bringing these ideas together? Ok, if you go to the Shibuya area Tokyo (where Charlotte sees the big TV screen with the dinosaur on it) and you turn right at the big TV, go down a few blocks (at the intersection right past the Tower records) and turn left, you can find a passibly ok Mexican restaurant, but it will be massively overpriced. Equally overpriced but of much better quality is a small place in Ebisu, just take the same train Charlette was on and you should see it from the train on your right (the small place painted yellow)about a minute before you reach Ebisu station. If you are in Shinjuku, avoid the Mexican places there, espescially the fast food looking one near the hotel where most of LiT takes place.
 

Lew Crippen

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In all of the years I lived in Asia/Pacific (seven in a row the last time), I never found an acceptable place for TexMex.

I'll take your word that the place in Ebisu is OK, but the next time I'm in Tokoyo, I still won't pay the preimum.
 

Henry Gale

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Just screened this for the first time in 3 years. The Bob/Charlotte relationship was much more intense than I had recalled.
Love this film and that girl.
 

Brian.L

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Scarlett Johansson's best. role. ever. As much as I like her, after seeing her in more movies recently than even the ubiquitous Michael Caine (and even one movie *with* him), I think it's fairly apparent that she will never come close to equaling this.
 

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