New Outlaw LFM-1 and SVS PB2-ISD review (2 Viewers)

[steve nn]

Here is a Thread for yeah Craig.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...hreadid=198988

Never could understand what he was up to over there.

 

[Craig Chase]

There is precisely nothing about this guy that is truthful, plus he hates anyone who disagrees with him.

I actually feel pity for the man...

 

[CurtisSC]

First...I will state, bashing any company is wrong...even Bose. And, it isn't just Rocket or SVS that get bashed...it is just a fact that it is more noticed when it does happen to those two companies.

As for Nightrain and Nicholas R, at first I thought for sure it was the same person, but now I am not as sure...but it probably is. Everything is an OPINION.

But, remember, bashing is a nasty form of stating an opinion. Take it for what it is worth to you and move on. Don't let these guys get under your skin.

And if bashing Rocket and SVS is OK on AVS, why are there still so many owners of both that still frequent the forum? Rocket and SVS still get plenty of recommedations there.

Remember that thread from the Axiom board, where a couple of guys came to my house and listened to my VTF-3, STF-2, and PB1+? It was no big deal on the Axiom board...but when it made it here, it caused a nice stir. That's what I mean by each board has its own personality.

 

[Craig Chase]

Curtis, He has admitted he is the same guy. He also has his Hsu subwoofer for sale on the Hsu site... letting everyone there know he purchased a Servo 15 to replace it.

He calls himself Caligari there.

And his lying is amazing. Six weeks ago he was touting the Widescreen Review uses Mirage subs in several of their systems. It was pointed out to him that Widescreen review tested and raved about the PB2+, so now only Stereophile and Absolute Sound are worthy of testing a subwoofer.

If you look in the latest recommended subwoofers from Stereophile, I do believe they list 3... Not much from which to pick.

Regarding the listening you guys did at your house, two Hsu owners set out to prove the VTF-3 was superior, and you did so. Even the Axiom board guys said "Anyone want to bet whether "Spiff n me" prefers the Hsu?" ... THEY knew who would "win" before you guys did the listening. At least you guys admitted it (after some wrestling)

Over the weekend, an SVS guy set out to prove his PB2+ was far superior to a UFW-10... and HE did so. Believe it or not, I even got into it with Tom V. over it...

There are opinions based in some objective criteria (blind testing and measurments) ... then there are opinions based in personal bias "I listened to more stuff... and mine is STILL the best..."

 

[Dan Hine]

Craig,

Last I heard, David Bott used SVS subs in his HT. Has that changed? If not then I'm not sure why he would act in such a way. Even considering that HSU is sponsored by AVS and SVS is not.


- Dan

 

[CurtisSC]

Wait a second...are you accusing me of something? I had know idea who would "win" when I listenned to the PB1+...or any other speaker for that matter. If fact I don't look at it as "winning" or "losing"...it is more of what I prefer. If people do not like the way comparison was conducted.....then they can choose to disregard it. But just like the Rocket threads, you would rather label me as being biased. Isn't that what happens in Rocket/SVS threads...isn't that how the bashing starts? Someone not liking someone else's opinion?

I claim to be unbiased, but I have no problem being labeled as being biased as long as the person on the other end can handle being labeled as well. This hobby of ours, no matter how you slice it, IS subjective....and that is what makes it so much fun.

There are opinions formed on objective data, but are you saying that opinions based on the subjective is wrong? If so, there are A LOT of wrong people on the forums.

Fine....so this guy is the same guy. You don't like what he has to say, and you are of the opinion he is a liar. Label him as being an a** and move on. There is more than one poster on every board that I think is an a**.

Craig, I have seen you post unbiasedly about products, and I commend you on that, but does someone have to be like you to be unbiased?

 

[CurtisSC]

Dan,

I think Bott now uses Velodynes in his HT setup.

 

[Craig Chase]

Yes, Bott now uses Velodynes.

Curtis, YOU pointed out the Axiom board, and I read it. One guy actually posted that "If the SVS wins, I will laugh" ... I used "win" in quotes because I was, well, quoting from the thread... And by bias, one definition being a pre-disposition to an outcome, yes, you are biased. But in a way similar to someone rooting for a sports team.

There is no accusation there... by the way.

You don't carry your bias to extremes like some do. As in calling people names, putting down their equipment... etc... I agree with you that there are a LOT ... no... the majority of people on the Net forums that have a favorite speaker, sub... etc...

It IS ok to be biased towards "your" gear... as long as you understand two things...

1. Said pre-disposition needs to be taken into account before posting any comparison.

2. As stated above, you respect other's decisions to like something else.

 

[CurtisSC]

By the way...I wear my SVS t-shirts all the time.

 

[Craig Chase]

Now THAT was funny.... I did not know they sold Extra Smalls...

 

[CurtisSC]

hehehehe....they through one in with the 20-39PC+ I bought, and two with the PB1+. I will say they are VERY NICE t-shirts....I kept a long sleeve and a short sleeve, and gave the extra short sleeve one to the guys at Hsu to throw darts at .......Just kidding!! The third actually went with the sub to its final home.....I didn't tell them it came with two.

 

[MikeNg]

What? You got free t-shirts? Man, I feel ripped off. I'm on my second SVS too.


No I don't - I own one of the best subs in the industry!
Having outstanding performance is plenty.

TV, if you're reading this, I'm an XL! :b

 

[Felix_F]

Actually, I was the one who wrote about privacy-driven issues.

Felix

 

[Craig Chase]

Felix - I totally agree with you. As disturbed as I was over the "hate-e-mail", I don't think opening ISP's to the world is a good idea...

Back to audio stuff... Everyone re-read the review, and, being honest, can anyone think the Hsu/Outlaw subs are any more musical than the SVS ?

Or that Hsu, if he elected to, could not build a "super sub" like the PB2 series ? I have been trying to get him to do so for his next Flagship Design... Two VTF-3 Drivers in a PB2+ size enclosure, 800-1000 watt amp... variable tuning... etc...and stackable.

It would cost about $250 more for him to build it, tops...

 

[Charles Gurganus]

When blocking the PB2-ISD ports for tuning does it matter which ones you block? (top or bottom?)

 

[Craig Chase]

Nope... Makes no difference... heck, Some guys have blocked all the ports in order to get below 10 Hz bass... not recommended, but it has been done.

 

[BenCosta]

This review mirrors my experience with the LFM. While it would appear that both subs are a great value, the LFM which is both smaller and less expensive than the PB2 appears to be an incredible value. According to the graph the Outlaws FR appears to be smoother in the most critical areas. Flame suit on.

Peace-

Ben

 

[Parker Clack]

We have taken the position here to never display a member's IP address to the public at large due that very thing happening here several years ago. Besides an IP address is only as good as the ISP that a member goes through. If they are on AOL, MSN, etc. their IP address is never the same.

We have gone after those that we can to report them to their ISP in the past. But many times even the ISP is reluctant to do anything about it when we have asked. If it is a sole business account or a college they are more willing to work with us on going after those that abuse the privilege of being on the net. The vast majority of ISPs won't even look at the problem even though they say that they diligently go after their problem members. We find as soon as a person gets into trouble they simply drop that ISP and join up somewhere else or simply sign up under a different name.

The simple feature that we HAVE implemented though is an ignore function on this board. If a member has become nothing but an eyesore when you try to read their rantings then just put them on your ignore list and you will never have to read what they have to say again. So just like the off button on your TV you have the choice not to view the program.

 

[Robb Roy]

I would say both subs are an incredible value. The SVS is more expensive, but as to whether or not it is a better value depends how important infrasonics are to you.

That FR chart has both subs within a few DB throughout the core operating range, giving us an indication both have inherently flat FRs. I wouldn't put too much stock in it, though, as that's an in room measurement, and unless we actually sit in their Reference System 3 room, it won't tell us too much about how either will perform in our rooms.

-Robb

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

>>>That FR chart has both subs within a few DB throughout the core operating range, giving us an indication both have inherently flat FRs.