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Mary Tyler Moore Show Complete Series Set Coming (1 Viewer)

Jeff*H

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It's easy to understand everyone's frustrations after having spent lots of $$ faithfully supporting the first four seasons, but I also think Fox was between a rock and a hard place. It's been well documented here and elsewhere that the MTM DVD sets lost money for Fox, and it's very reasonable to assume that the 3 remaining seasons would have lost them even more money than before as there is always sales attrition between seasons. Thus, releasing the last few seasons individually as they had the others was not really an option if anyone at Fox Home Entertainment wanted to keep their job in a rough economy.

But they also wanted to find a way to make the fans happy and get them the remaining seasons. They could easily have said 'screw it' and saved themselves a bundle of headaches, but they apparently came up with a financial model that works: doing a complete set. This allows new collectors to get the entire series at once at an average of $20 a season or less after retail discounts. And the die-hard fans still can have a way to get all the episodes too, even though it will require a double-dip. As I pointed out in an earlier post, fans are really only having to spend around an extra $35 to get the set vs. if they had to pay to get the 3 remaining seasons individually.

I'm sure many fans of 'Taxi', 'Bob Newhart', 'Hill Street Blues', 'NYPD Blue', 'All in the Family', 'The Jeffersons' and countless other abandoned shows would be thrilled to have an opportunity like this.

It sucks that there wasn't a better way, but anyone at Fox who would put out something knowing it would lose money would have rocks in their head. Aside from digital downloads, I don't think they had any other viable model that could make money for this show.
 

chadHobbick

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As soon as I saw the news item on tvshowsondvd the first thing that entered my mind was I knew they were going to do this. I'm glad that they are getting all of the seasons out, but pissed b/c I actually bought the first season when it first came out, waited patiently for S2, then S3 & S4. I know companies think that the best way to make money on releases is to do the full series set, just like the PPG series released a few weeks back. With news of a complete series coming, how would anyone make money on the individual sets at this point, imo I can't justify getting $10 on a set that cost me about $50 when first purchased. Yes, Amazon will have great Gold Box deals, but you usually have to wait about 2 years before those series sets get the great deal, and yes DD has their awesome sale as well twice a year, so there will be great deals, but I would personally rather have the last three seasons released on the same date as the complete series set. It has been done before, so please FOX, help the fans out.

I think that the sets didn't sell well due to the timeframe b/t each season that came out. With S1, tv on dvd was a new medium still and it was around $50-$60 dollars. The sales hindered the release of S2, which was due to come out just a few months after the S1 release. S2 finally comes out, but was cheaper than S1 at that point, and that led to low sales, which hindered S3 although S4 came out soon after. Even though the S1 price was lowered, I think that lag b/t releases turned off people, and the only reason we are getting the complete series is due to the power of Oprah. I've been with this show since the beginning of it's dvd release, and just doubted we would ever get the complete series out there, although this gives me hope that the Bob Newhart Show is next in line. I'm thinking the upcoming Rhoda release ties into this announcement somewhat; I mean how can you start releasing Rhoda when MTM isn't complete yet.
 

Gary OS

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I'm with Joe Lugoff on this one. This is utterly outrageous. The studios are losing good will with me by the day at this point. Between CBS/P's treatment of two of my all time favorites, to Universal's abandonment of two more personal favorites, to this type of greed from Fox, I've about had it with this entire hobby of TV on DVD. My enthusiasm is dying a painful death, and it's not just because things are tighter economically.

All of the studios can count on getting about 10% of the money they got off me last year. And that's if their lucky. Sure, they don't give a flip. But neither do I, so I guess we are even.


Gary "this is nothing more than unmitigated greed on the part of Fox" O.
 

Joe*A

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Obsolete Man - great points you've raised.

I for one am happy that the best of the Mary Tyler Moore series is finally coming out on DVD. I'm not thrilled over the potential double dipping. What this has accomplished, Fox executives, has created a apathy in purchasing season sets of ANYTHING. I always wanted to pick up the season sets of Battlestar Galactica (new series, of course) but I KNOW THAT IT WILL BE RELEASED AS A COMPLETE SERIES AT A MUCH LOWER PER UNIT COST. Having said that, my purchase of any TV on DVD has become quite cautious to the point that I've gone from 50 sets per year to maybe 2 per year.

They did it to me with MASH (at least they had the friggin' decency to release the season sets) and now they're sticking it to us again with MTM. Use your heads FOX, if you've created FEAR, APPREHENSION AND CAUTION for yours truly, there's a good chance that you've done the same with many many others out here who buy your product!!! Have you guys figured out how much you'll probably not make because of your schemes?

This is the only product that I could think of that is released without any consistency. It's a crap shoot everytime you decide to get into a series. Music is not released this way - singles come out and so does the entire album; why aren't TV on DVD sold in the same said fashion in terms of cosistency? Come on guys!!!
 

David Levine

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It might be financially impossible.

With Circuit City going away, Musicland gone, Fye/Suncoast closing stores, there is not much left outside of Best Buy, Wal-Mart and Target. All 3 chains are drastically cutting what they bring in for new inventory and I would bet that Best Buy said they would not carry individual season sets for 5-7 because they would not sell enough each week to meet their new quotas. But I bet they jumped at the chance to carry a larger MSRP giftset. I would guess WalMart and Target said something similar.

The only working solution to me would be for the studio to do an exclusive deal with Amazon to be the sole seller of the individual seasons. The discs will already be replicated, and they'd likely have to give up the idea of fancy/expensive packaging, but they could easily just print Amaray wraps for the 3 seasons and "build on demand" using those 14mm cases that hold 5-6 discs each. Then they aren't over manufacturing product, and they don't have to worry about retailers either not bringing them in or even worse - returning massive amounts of inventory. It would be the most cost effective way to get the individual seasons into the hands of the people that bought 1-4 already.
 

Tony S

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If Fox is going to pull this crap, maybe we should Netflix seasons 5-7 and burn our own copies.
 

JohnMor

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I'm with Jeff*H on this one. I'll gladly pay the additional $35 or so to get the remaing three seasons, and probably a more compact storage as well.

Selling off my sets will even cut down on the $35, which is GREAT. (Except I can't sell my 4th season set, as Ed Asner autographed it, and I won't part with that no matter what.)

So, I don't see how this is costing anyone much more than they would have paid for the three seasons individually. AND their collection is complete once and for all. No worries about Season 5 not selling enough to warrant Season 6 or 7 being released. With no real extra cost, and all the seasons, how is this not a win???
 

BrianP

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Also Fox did release Goodbye, Farewell & Amen that contained the extras and final episode of MASH that were part of the entire series set. At least fans of the series who purchased the individual sets were not left out and had to repurchase everything again. I don't know why Fox couldn't do a limited production run and bundle the last 3 seasons for everyone who purchased the first four seasons.
 

Gary OS

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I totally agree with David. Of course, he knows what he's talking about so it's only smart that I agree with him.
htf_images_smilies_smile.gif


I believe that the "Charles in Charge" series is going this route, so it makes sense all the way around to me. I understand there might not be a viable way for Fox to get this series out to the B&M stores. Still, I can't stand the idea of them sticking the consumer with this type double-dipping deal. Seems very unfair.


Gary "good to see you, David - hope things are going well for you" O.
 

Joe*A

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Oh, they did finally release the "extras" separately but they charged $30 because they included the final episode, which I already had in Season 11. They did me no favor.
 

WendyCR

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Let me preface this by saying I am not a fan of the Mary Tyler Moore show, but I have read all the comments, pro and con, about this complete set versus individual seasons and figured I'd throw in my $0.02 economic-wise.

Does it suck that loyal viewers paid for each individual season when they came out only to realize there's no chance to complete the series without double dipping? Of course.

But the sad fact is, it has been apparent that MTM seems now - be it due to the passage of time or the fact that a lot of viewers of that time who watched MTM may not truly be hardcore into TV on DVD - like a "niche" show. And niche shows do have their place and its fans. But TV on DVD is a business. And the company had to decide on quitting altogether or doing the last big push to get all seasons out.

Besides, isn't it usually the way that, as later seasons of a show are released, the less each subsequent season usually sells? That would seem to be a problem then for MTM, which did not sell well to begin with.

I am not implying that fans who have been loyal and bought the individual sets do not have the right to be upset, but from a business standpoint, Fox was damned if they did and damned if they didn't. Now, however, at least those who are into the show at least have the option for the entire series.

Other shows that have sold poorly (i.e. Hunter, stopped at season 3; Silk Stalkings, ended at season 5, just as a couple of examples) cannot say the same. It is up to each buyer what they can afford and/or if they feel it would be worth re-buying the first seasons to get the rest.

Anyway, just my rambling, for what it is worth.
 

TravisR

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Everyone who is mad won't listen to you but you're right. At least, no one has to worry about the set selling well enough for another set to be released.

I still think you'll see a release of the other sets at some point (which of course will piss off everyone buys the series set and sells the other 4 sets).
 

Michael Rogers

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I can understand both sides of the equation:

The money that Fox lost in lacking sales of MTM

The fact that later seasons sell less than the earlier ones.

The pressure brought to bear by Oprah to continue the series even though the sales were bad and promise only to get worse because only the later seasons are left.

That's why I am not too mad at Fox per say.

Still, I think some concession to previous season holders is a good idea. If individual season set releases are not it, than a rebate program of some type.
 

FrankPitt

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I'm still on the fence about this, and will probably wait to see if the final three seasons are released in some other way, either separately or in a bundle. Sure, it's "only" a $35 difference in the end, but $35, nowadays, is nothing to toss out the window. For some, that's grocery money. Or it goes towards rent. At best, it's money that could be spent on a new DVD set you don't already own.

Business-wise, this might be Fox's best option. I really don't see how. As has already been stated, the MTM fans likely to buy this set will have already purchased the first four seasons. A "bundle" release of seasons 5-7, to me, makes tons of sense. Then, a year later, they can package the 1-4 and 5-7 bundles together as a complete set.

Hopefully, Fox will present other options in the coming weeks. I'd even settle for a proof-of-purchase rebate program with a minimal discount for each Season 1-4 set (say a $15 rebate for each, potentially totaling $60 off the complete series set). Just something...any gesture of good will...to make me feel like I didn't throw my money away.

I've got a bad feeling that if this set sells at all well, All in the Family will be next in line for the same treatment. And I already own six of those sets!

-Frank
 

Joe Karlosi

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Interesting that you say that. Because though I am not interested in the MARY TYLER MOORE SHOW, I am a fan of ALL IN THE FAMILY, and I'd be in a similar bind as you fans of MTM are talking about, because I already have 6 season of AIF and I want the rest (well, almost -- I only want up to when Mike and Gloria leave the show -- more on this later)...

In other words -- I am not personally affected by this MTM fiasco, but I have read this thread anyway because I think it's a damn shame that the studio is doing this to its loyal fans. I do think something should be done -- somehow, some way -- to compensate those who already sprang for the earlier seasons and supported this show all down the line. This new business of releasing a few solo seasons and later going ahead and putting the ENTIRE SERIES out of any TV series is becoming really weird.

Recently I had a good fortune from this type of routine... I was able to buy the entire series of SANFORD AND SON (6 seasons) for only $49.95! But what about all those others who got rooked by spending $30 or more per individual release of S&S, for the entire show, separately??? This is not the same scenario as MTM I understand, because in the case of MTM you guys didn't have the choice to buy these final seasons individually.

It is truly raping the customer, pure and simple. Since the studio cannot make much money from MTM, they figure the best way to go about it is to snare those other loyal fans who already shelled out their cash for the earlier seasons, to make them DOUBLE-PAY just to gain the last few seasons! Most of their interested customers are obviously going to be the ones who already bought the first seasons previously!

But here's the catch with me... when we mention ALL IN THE FAMILY, then I am suddenly in your predicament myself. If that comes to be down the pike, it's really going to be a problem for me, and maybe even moreso - because in the case of AIF, I would have to re-buy the first 6 seasons I already own, plus I'd be stuck getting all the added Stephanie episodes after Mike and Gloria left the show, which I wouldn't have wanted and would not have bought!!!
 

BrianP

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I stopped buying MASH season sets after season 8 because I thought it started going down hill and couldn't see myself watching those episodes much. However the final episode and extras set can be found for well under $20. I think I got mine for around $15 new. Well worth the price not having to buy the complete series to get them.
 

Gary OS

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With all due respect, I don't think that's a fair characterization. I fully, and I do mean fully, understand the argument from FOX's point of view. That's not the point. The bottom line is that some of us are arguing from the side of the studio and others are arguing from the side of the consumer. It's just that simple.

Is Fox a studio that's main purpose is to make money? Of course. So can we argue from their perspective and make the case that this is a viable way for them to recoup costs from previous sets? Yes. Does it make sense from a brick & mortar shelving and returns point of view like David Levine mentioned? No doubt.

But...

Is a consumer allowed to be upset about double-dipping? Of course. So can we argue from their perspective and make a case that this idea hurts them in the wallet because they will be having to rebuy previous seasons they've already paid for? Yes. Does it make sense for them to be disappointed and even mad at this prospect? No doubt.


Gary "we can go back and forth all day long - but it always comes back to which side you want to argue from more so than who's right or wrong" O.
 

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