Latest Tidbits From Warner Archives (1 Viewer)

[Neil Brock]

Another show which was rumored to be coming out a few years ago that has gone very quiet is Please Don't Eat The Daisies. Would love to know what happened on that front.

 

[Jack P]

Their replies of the past 6 months or so on the detective shows has been: "Nothing new to report at this time"

Which to me sounds more positive than their old replies and implies that they are working on it.

But at the same time a more cynical take on that would suggest they know after all this time and all the previous questions that people know what the issue is, and they're just being more terse to avoid repeating what people already know. That music is the problem.


Speaking for myself, I'm not willing to accept a music edited solution if there's but the slightest chance of getting it cleared as it was originally. I'd rather see a "best of" volume of uncut episodes as a "sampler" to experience.


I too am surprised there's been nothing on "Please Don't Eat The Daisies" which has the novelty of the UNCLE related cameos.

 

[Randy Korstick]

True on the cynical point but their normal answer if that were the case would be: "Music clearance issues prevent us from releasing this" By saying "at this time" they are indicating that they are working on it.


I think all of us want all the episodes uncut but I would not buy a best of either that is basically what they did for streaming. I would accept season sets that had all the uncut episodes from the best of's as well as musically edited episodes of the problem episodes. That to me would be better than nothing and better than best of's because at least we are still getting all the episodes.

But at the same time a more cynical take on that would suggest they know after all this time and all the previous questions that people know what the issue is, and they're just being more terse to avoid repeating what people already know. That music is the problem.


Speaking for myself, I'm not willing to accept a music edited solution if there's but the slightest chance of getting it cleared as it was originally. I'd rather see a "best of" volume of uncut episodes as a "sampler" to experience.


I too am surprised there's been nothing on "Please Don't Eat The Daisies" which has the novelty of the UNCLE related cameos.

 

[Ed Lachmann]

Why would another company be more successful in handling music clearances than they would?

Perhaps you might remember Fox's dismal release of WKRP In Cincinnati and then fast forward to Shout! Factory's complete set of 2014. Or, how about CBS diddling around with Dobie Gillis and refusing to work with the Shulman heirs and fast forward to the Shout! Factory complete set in 2013. Yes, someone could probably make at least one of these work. Music from this particular bunch of 1950's detective shows is "impossible" or "too expensive" to even consider cutting a deal of some sort? Fifty years after the fact? I don't recall that much music in any of them, anyway, except perhaps Hawaiian Eye. Henry Mancini's estate cut a deal for Peter Gunn and Elmer Bernstein's estate cut a deal for Johnny Staccato, yet this is impossible. I just don't buy it.

 

[Randy Korstick]

These shows are actually full of lounge songs beside all the instrumental music that normally has to be cleared. Most of the artist or writers of these songs have passed on so they have to deal with their estates. People running these types of estates tend to overvalue their holdings and don't seem to eager to negotiate.

As mentioned earlier The Shout music licensing worked because it did not include International rights and is for a short term. Since Warner Archive does not sell Internationally they would be no different than Shout in this regard. So there is a lot more to this than most realize.

Perhaps you might remember Fox's dismal release of WKRP In Cincinnati and then fast forward to Shout! Factory's complete set of 2014. Or, how about CBS diddling around with Dobie Gillis and refusing to work with the Shulman heirs and fast forward to the Shout! Factory complete set in 2013. Yes, someone could probably make at least one of these work. Music from this particular bunch of 1950's detective shows is "impossible" or "too expensive" to even consider cutting a deal of some sort? Fifty years after the fact? I don't recall that much music in any of them, anyway, except perhaps Hawaiian Eye. Henry Mancini's estate cut a deal for Peter Gunn and Elmer Bernstein's estate cut a deal for Johnny Staccato, yet this is impossible. I just don't buy it.

 

[Jack P]

Perhaps you might remember Fox's dismal release of WKRP In Cincinnati and then fast forward to Shout! Factory's complete set of 2014. Or, how about CBS diddling around with Dobie Gillis and refusing to work with the Shulman heirs and fast forward to the Shout! Factory complete set in 2013. Yes, someone could probably make at least one of these work. Music from this particular bunch of 1950's detective shows is "impossible" or "too expensive" to even consider cutting a deal of some sort? Fifty years after the fact? I don't recall that much music in any of them, anyway, except perhaps Hawaiian Eye. Henry Mancini's estate cut a deal for Peter Gunn and Elmer Bernstein's estate cut a deal for Johnny Staccato, yet this is impossible. I just don't buy it.

Sorry, but I'm not buying that argument with Warner. Warner has only palmed off one title on Shout, which was "Welcome Back Kotter" and that was a case where all they had to give them was existing tape masters for a show that can't be remastered further. If any music clearance is going to come, it's going to come from them and be put out by them, and to assume that Shout could somehow be bigger geniuses in getting all of that taken care of compared to Warner, which let us remember has more of a vested interest in wanting to put these out themselves through their *own* program, is IMO falling victim to the old "Help me Shout Factory, you're my only hope" syndrome which overstates what they're capable of doing (and often leaves out the matter of how they have their own track record of stalled titles and releases in less than stellar quality even amidst their successes).

 

[Ed Lachmann]

Perhaps short term is the answer then, maybe a Twilight TIme type deal where there are only a limited number of units. Those of us who REALLY want these shows will pay a premium price, the music clearance would be cheaper and this thing could get a move on. I'm really surprised that any classic TV show has come out on DVD if this is how complicated it gets. Still, why do I suspect this is more about on demand streaming. Shout may not be bigger geniuses than WB, but they sure seem to care a whole lot more about classic TV fans, certainly the ones who prefer to buy DVDs.

 

[Randy Korstick]

They have already removed 77 Sunset Strip and Hawaiian Eye from the streaming service so I don't think streaming is the issue and they never had a season 1 of 77 and all the seasons were best of's. Seems more like the streaming service for these shows was a "hold me over" for fans until something better comes along.

 

[mark-edk]

It's surprising how the music rights are a sticking point. I say this because the detective shows shows were done on the cheap, and to save money they used songs Warner Bros already owned. And used them over and over. Watching 77SS and now Surfside 6 I can't count how many times I hear "When My Lover Has Gone" "I Only Have Eyes for You" or any number of WB songs sung, or played in the background, etc. I suppose decades later they might have lost the rights to some songs, but not sure why or how that would have happened.

 

[Jack P]

Sometimes the hang-up can be if the contracts covered use in TV but not films etc. Not all of these contracts are alike. The real problem that caused this limbo for a lot of shows for a long time was that in 1957, Warner stopped commissioning original scores for their TV shows and went ENTIRELY to library music as underscore. This policy wasn't lifted until 1964 which was after all these classic shows of the late 50s and early 60s saw their runs end. So as a result this is why we've had these problems from the get-go and it's also incidentally the reason why "Cheyenne" got out first long long ago since its first season was before the ban on original episode underscore went into effect.


When you're talking about songs I think each one has to be studied in contrast to use of a singular stock music library like the CBS library on Fugitive etc. where collectively everything is part of one library. So that means the process takes inevitably longer. The westerns obviously were less of a problem if it was just a stock library as opposed to individual songs hence the reason why the Warner westerns are now just about finished.

 

[Randy Korstick]

Each form of media is different so just because you had the rights to a song cleared in a movie doesn't mean that is cleared to release in a TV show or to release as a music CD. Each one has to be cleared separately because are different types of media or revenue.

It's surprising how the music rights are a sticking point. I say this because the detective shows shows were done on the cheap, and to save money they used songs Warner Bros already owned. And used them over and over. Watching 77SS and now Surfside 6 I can't count how many times I hear "When My Lover Has Gone" "I Only Have Eyes for You" or any number of WB songs sung, or played in the background, etc. I suppose decades later they might have lost the rights to some songs, but not sure why or how that would have happened.

 

[Bob Gu]

With 77 SUNSET STRIP there may also be clearance issues with the use of Dean Martin's name and likeness on the Dino's logo.

77 Sunset Strip is the most known/wanted series of the classic WB shows, (1955-1964), and has the most episodes. When it finally comes out it will bring a lot of traffic to the WB sites and raise interest in the previous Archive TV releases with casual fans who still may not know these other shows are out on DVD. So could WAC be trying to get more of the other classic shorter run programs out first, to give the new crowd that comes to the Archive site a bigger selection when 77 Sunset Strip is released?

 

[kitt1987]

Call me crazy but I'd like to see the WB give the Dukes of Hazzard the blu ray treatment!

 

[Professor Echo]

They have already removed 77 Sunset Strip and Hawaiian Eye from the streaming service so I don't think streaming is the issue and they never had a season 1 of 77 and all the seasons were best of's. Seems more like the streaming service for these shows was a "hold me over" for fans until something better comes along.

Randy, don't you think at least the first season of 77 will be released to retail and not through the Archive? It certainly seems to have as much recognition and desirability as MAVERICK and MAYBERRY RFD.

 

[Randy Korstick]

hmm. Interesting question. Yes it has a lot of interest but also has been out of TV circulation for a long time so that would be a concern. As I'm sure you know Maverick went to the Archive after season 2, Eight is enough went there after 1 season and I suspect Mayberry RFD maybe heading there as well.

Warner Archives Facebook page is always quick to answer: "That is a question for WHV" when a movie or show is in the hands of WHV but since they have never given that answer for the detective shows I believe they are completely in the hands of the archive which most likely means they have even less resources available to clear the music. Another possible reason for the long delay.

I'm sure they will be pressed discs from the archive.

Nothing is written in stone on this so its possible they could go retail but I doubt that based on the shrinking retail disc market plus the lack of recent exposure of the show.

Randy, don't you think at least the first season of 77 will be released to retail and not through the Archive? It certainly seems to have as much recognition and desirability as MAVERICK and MAYBERRY RFD.

 

[Professor Echo]

hmm. Interesting question. Yes it has a lot of interest but also has been out of TV circulation for a long time so that would be a concern. As I'm sure you know Maverick went to the Archive after season 2, Eight is enough went there after 1 season and I suspect Mayberry RFD maybe heading there as well.
Warner Archives Facebook page is always quick to answer: "That is a question for WHV" when a movie or show is in the hands of WHV but since they have never given that answer for the detective shows I believe they are completely in the hands of the archive which most likely means they have even less resources available to clear the music. Another possible reason for the long delay.
I'm sure they will be pressed discs from the archive.
Nothing is written in stone on this so its possible they could go retail but I doubt that based on the shrinking retail disc market plus the lack of recent exposure of the show.

True, MAVERICK played on Encore Westerns and westerns generally sell well at retail and MOD, plus it has built in appeal with Garner and a fond reputation overall. RFD has the TAGS connection, but few associate it with the glory and most traditionally remembered seasons of that. In addition, it had been off the air for a long time, save for isolated indie channels and a TV Land weekend marathon in the early 2,000s.

But here's something that has occurred to me since my earlier post: Maybe the biggest difference between the three shows is the "Walmart factor." Westerns and rural set shows sell at Walmart, an urban cop show maybe not as much. This may be the real reason why it's destined to be an Archive release?

 

[bretmaverick2]

Randy, don't you think at least the first season of 77 will be released to retail and not through the Archive? It certainly seems to have as much recognition and desirability as MAVERICK and MAYBERRY RFD.

Not sure that is true outside of real television fans. Maverick was kept in the public mind because of the Garner connection, the first reunion movie, and the two spin off series (YOUNG and BRET). Add to that, the hit movie starring Mel Gibson and Garner. So there was quite a few things that kept Maverick in the public arena.


For whatever reason, TAGS stayed a beloved program even after the departure of Don Knotts. And it runs ENDLESSLY on various cable outlets. MRFD was just an extension of TAGS. Andy even showed up in a few early episodes.


Other than true tv fans like ourselves, very few folks well remember 77 or other WB detective shows of that era. So I doubt the same mass marketability for 77 that the other two you mentioned actually exists.

 

[Richard V]

Call me crazy but I'd like to see the WB give the Dukes of Hazzard the blu ray treatment!

You're crazy.

 

[bretmaverick2]

And as for my long oft-repeated desire to see a release for YOUNG MAVERICK, well, I may finally be losing faith.


WA's facebook page had given me hope a few times last year. When I asked if there was any update on a release for the show recently, I got no response.

 

[Professor Echo]

Not sure that is true outside of real television fans. Maverick was kept in the public mind because of the Garner connection, the first reunion movie, and the two spin off series (YOUNG and BRET). Add to that, the hit movie starring Mel Gibson and Garner. So there was quite a few things that kept Maverick in the public arena.

For whatever reason, TAGS stayed a beloved program even after the departure of Don Knotts. And it runs ENDLESSLY on various cable outlets. MRFD was just an extension of TAGS. Andy even showed up in a few early episodes.

Other than true tv fans like ourselves, very few folks well remember 77 or other WB detective shows of that era. So I doubt the same mass marketability for 77 that the other two you mentioned actually exists.

I had previously addressed a lot of your contentions in the post directly above yours, which you must have missed.??? And I believe my Wal-Mart explanation is a sound one regarding the question of why the two shows I mentioned received pressed releases.