I’ll give you a topic: Is Digital before Physical a Good Thing? Discuss! (2 Viewers)

[Indy Guy]

Everyone has their own preferred way of collecting or viewing film and nothing we can debate here will effect that one way or another.

About 25 years ago I made a suggestion that had a major effect on how event films start their theatrical release window. It added a premium tier to the chain of distribution steps where each step delivers direct revenue associated with individual titles.
What's disrupted the distribution pipeline is streaming economics. This is the first time where studio revenue is not a direct measure of an individual film's demand, cost to produce or box office returns. Here's that story.

In 1998 Michael Eisner put out an open invitation to everyone in Disney's creative divisions to come up with a dramatic way to set Disney apart at the dawn of the new Millennium. I suggested the studio premiere what would be the first 3D feature length IMAX film at midnight on January 1, 2000.
At the time, IMAX was an educational format used primarily by museums. Contractually, many could not show films made specifically for entertainment. Fantasia 2000 was too far along to be retooled for 3D, but there was time for it to be formatted for IMAX. There were very few theaters capable of showing IMAX, so Eisner had temporary theaters built to accommodate Fantasia's opening on New Years Day 2000. By the next year, Beauty and the Beast had undergone conversion to both 3D and IMAX so it could re-premiere on January 1 2001. Since then, the $20+ IMAX premiere distribution tier has been regarded by most studios as the showcase platform for major event films. Trickle down consumption of media had found a prestigious top tier.

When films ran their theatrical course, they were remarketed for physical media. There was high demand with large profit margins, though studios were never fully comfortable with the idea of selling off control of content.
The allure of high profits won out and Disney released some of the best quality discs with revenues properly attached to each individual title...the same metric as higher tier theatrical returns. Broadcast television held the tent pole at the bottom rung of the distribution journey. Even today a chestnut like "The 10 Commandments" racks up acceptable advertising revenue for ABC...a direct result of the film's broadcast airing.

Profits (if any) from streaming are very different. To force it to work, studios must deliberately withhold or delay more profitable viewer options to drive captive subscribers and film collectors to make digital purchases or sign up for near free viewing via streaming to feed on the urge for "instant gratification". The most profit damaging aspect from streaming and digital downloads results from their being given priority release dates way before higher priced physical media transactions are allowed.
No longer are studios able to command $20 to $30 dollars for popular titles fresh from theatrical runs. Instead, they get bundled in masses of streaming content for pennies that are not even directly attributable to a specific title. After streaming deflates the value of a high profile film, it's tossed into the physical market where a $30 price tag on "second hand goods" seems absurd.
Had studios let natural demand for ownership (or instant gratification) guide distribution from the top premium format down to the least, rather than pursuing pipe dreams of forced content control, Hollywood's financial health would be in a different place today. Nobody counted on "binge and drop" mentality as a way for subscribers to squeeze miniscule streaming profits even tighter.

Pandemic reactions combined with streaming to permanently wound the theatrical experience and the health of theaters in general. Audiences have grown comfortable waiting a few months to see films almost "for free" at home.
Physical media has been forced into an unprofitable release window "after" digital and free streaming has eroded title value. The Walmart bargain bin has been replaced by wholesale film dumps into streaming outlets. That reality has taken down theaters and physical sales that generated direct measurable revenue for decades. Studio greed to control access has delivered a profit model with no measure for success and very little headroom for return on investment. Brilliant!

 

[Scott Merryfield]

However, it is also possible for a studio to make adjustments to digital copies after they have been redeemed. Toy Story 2 was edited for a 2019 reissue to remove an outtake that was deemed inappropriate in the Me Too era. All digital copies of that movie have removed that scene even if you redeemed your code from an earlier edition of the disc that has the outtake intact. There is no mechanism to prevent the studio from doing this with a streaming version. But I bought my Blu-ray copy before the change, so the scene is intact on that disc.

Yes, this has happened on a few occasions. The positive aspect of this ability, though - - and which happens far more often - - is that a streaming title will automatically be upgraded to an improved version. Many of the titles I've purchased or claimed digital codes for on iTunes have been upgraded from HD to 4K / Dolby Vision (or HDR10) at no cost. That's never happened with a single disc title sitting on my shelf.

 

[Tino]

Many of the titles I've purchased or claimed digital codes for on iTunes have been upgraded from HD to 4K / Dolby Vision (or HDR10) at no cost. That's never happened with a single disc title sitting on my shelf.

That’s a great point! And most of mine at a $4.99 price point.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

As I (and some others) have said before, if you think some particular titles are important enough (and perhaps, susceptible enough to future revisionism or even quality downgrade! or whatever else), own it on disc. Nobody's being forced to choose one format (ie. digital) to the complete exclusion of the other (ie. disc)... at least so far... afterall. Plenty of use do both these days often w/ overlap (though often because many disc releases from the major studios come w/ digital copy)...

Sometimes, I forgo the 4K disc and just get 4K digital if I already have a good BD of the title -- and some titles aren't released on 4K disc at all, but the digital might be in 4K... though that might ruffle some feathers of course.

_Man_

 

[albert_m2]

I see it as this - that the studios see physical sales more of a fanbase segment. This isn't totally true, but let's face it, we who buy discs are loyal to it and with each passing year, disc sales shrink, and we are a larger % of that smaller group.

They may get some digital sales from folks like who ultimately buy the disc when released... not sure how likely it is, but you never know.

 

[Todd Erwin]

Walmart tried this with Vudu several years ago, where you’d preorder the disc and Vudu would give you the movie as soon as it hit digital and Walmart would send you the disc when it was released. Demand for this service was low, and the studio wasn’t willing to provide the digital copy to Vudu so they were paying out of pocket to provide the service, and it quietly disappeared after launching with some fanfare.

It kinda sucks but there just aren’t enough buying discs anymore for any of the studios or retailers to bend over backwards for us.

Part of me thinks this was discontinued not necessarily due to low demand, but due to abuse of the program because Walmart didn't think it through completely. What ended up happening is that when the disc arrived, many turned around and sold the digital copy (legally, those codes are not supposed to be for sale if you read the fine print). When FandangoNow took over management of Vudu, some bean counters started combing thru those customers who used the Instawatch program and anyone they suspected of selling the additional digital copies had those copies removed.

 

[Capt D McMars]

With respect and love, as always, very late to the party here.

What they’re calling “premium digital ownership” is something the studios came up with during the pandemic. These are digital purchases for movies that may still be playing in theaters, offered to consumers at a higher price point before the titles become available on disc, subscription streaming and regular lower priced digital ownership.

There was an article recently in one of the trades describing how this has impacted revenue. Essentially, it’s been mostly new revenue, and hasn’t robbed from existing sources. The people buying these titles during the premium price window are generally customers that do not go to movie theaters, and who do not normally buy discs or films. They are people who normally spend on a subscription streaming service, who see value in having access to the movie while it’s still generating buzz in theaters and not yet available on their subscription.

Now, in general, digital versions of movies having been coming out about two or three weeks before discs, and that’s been the case since about 2012. So that’s nothing new.

In terms of quality, that will change over time, especially as compression codecs improve and high speed bandwidth becomes more accessible to people. A disc is just a container for data files. A UHD disc, for instance, can hold up to 100gb of data. There’s nothing to say a streaming version of the same movie can’t also be the same file size or even larger because there’s no physical disc limit on streaming. Discs are also locked into the spec that was agreed upon when the format was created. A DVD has to be MPEG2. A Blu-ray has to be MPEG4 or VLC. A UHD disc has to be MPEG5. But a streaming service can constantly update its app and the codec it uses, so it can take advantage of improvements in video delivery without anyone needing to buy new hardware or software. There’s going to come a time where streaming across the board is better than discs because it won’t have arbitrary file and format limits that are locked in with discs.

The weaklink here is not so much in larger cities where high speed internet is common, but to the outreaching rule communities where either non or few systems have 1Gig or higher. Without the capability to deliver the HD quality or even a consistant means to provide the serive you describe, physical media is much more viable.
And with the ever possibily of internet system crashes and power outages also leaves customers cut off from their streamed collections, unless they have them dowloaded to in house sources. For me I just don't have faith in them...but in larger communities, the idea you discribe is sound.
Again, I just prefer the physical format, and deal with the space/shelf issue as it develops...

 

[Scott Merryfield]

The weaklink here is not so much in larger cities where high speed internet is common, but to the outreaching rule communities where either non or few systems have 1Gig or higher. Without the capability to deliver the HD quality or even a consistant means to provide the serive you describe, physical media is much more viable.
And with the ever possibily of internet system crashes and power outages also leaves customers cut off from their streamed collections, unless they have them dowloaded to in house sources. For me I just don't have faith in them...but in larger communities, the idea you discribe is sound.
Again, I just prefer the physical format, and deal with the space/shelf issue as it develops...

Your disc collection isn't going to play during an electrical power outage, either. And from my experience, we lose our electrical power a LOT more than we experience Internet outages.

 

[Capt D McMars]

Your disc collection isn't going to play during an electrical power outage, either. And from my experience, we lose our electrical power a LOT more than we experience Internet outages.

I experience BOTH, but with solar backup, which I have...it's the internet loss which is the larger issue i my area...but that's me!!

 

[Scott Merryfield]

I experience BOTH, but with solar backup, which I have...it's the internet loss which is the larger issue i my area...but that's me!!

Yes, different regions would have different experiences. Here, the one good thing I can say about Comcast / Xfinity is that their ISP service has been very reliable. On the other hand, our DTE electrical service has not -- the summer of 2022 was so bad, I filed complaints with the Michigan Public Service Commission and our congressional representative to get some action in replacing defective DTE equipment (having a next door neighbor who is a retired DTE exec helped, too). If it wasn't so darn expensive, we would invest in a whole-house backup generator system (natural gas instead of solar in our case).

 

[zoetmb]

Listen, I admit as I write this post I am not sure whether I am going to get a lot of crap for starting this topic but I have wanted, for so long to start an actual conversation thread. Been a long time since I have done that and I miss posting stupid sh*t.

Consider that a safety measure in case this thread goes bad

I am just slowly waking up to things.

I know that when Disney announced Avatar 2 last year it was the first time I had ever heard of "FOR PREMIUM DIGITAL OWNERSHIP"

Not sure if that was their words as I just ripped that off of the current BARBIE announcement...

...which brings me to the point of this thread...

Today I am racing (as I always try to do here) to be the first to post an exciting breaking press release. Oh, cool, "BARBIE," I think.

So, I started a new post and threw together the BARBIE announcement inserting the usual "(4k UHD)" and "(BlU-RAY)" into the subject field. I was about to post that announcement when my eyes suddenly, for no reason, glanced over at the words, "FOR PREMIUM DIGITAL OWNERSHIP"

I had to make huge corrections on the press release I was almost cocky enough to post.

So, now Warner is doing exactly what Disney has been doing?!

I mean, I know all the labels do some sort of AVAILABLE ON DIGITAL 30 days before

However, unless I am wrong, these new studio releases seem to be on digital months before physical media

I have two thoughts on this:

I have nothing against anyone who has the opportunity to purchase something like AVATAR or BARBIE digitally at a lower ownership cost, months ahead of the disc release.

However, I also see it as part of the continued wave that has been slowly killing the disc market. This new advanced digital ownership idea seems more like a big FU to Physical Media. I certainly hope the two can continue to get along nicely.

...and yeah, I sadly admit as someone who helped start this very forum of disc enthusiasts...

I buy more movies on digital over disc these days. There's the affordability and the convenience of having it in your hands to watch it that much quicker. There's also the fact I just don't have room for discs anymore no matter how much I love them. Don't get me wrong -- 4k and Blu-ray run in my blood. They reside within my soul. No matter what, the best presentation will always be on a disc. However, I have been slowly (slower than most) waking my eyes up to the fact that discs are becoming less and less relevant in today's world.

I know, late to the party again

Even if the best presentation will always be on disc (and as per others, that's debatable), the fact remains that the broader market is abandoning disc and any look at disc sales will tell you that as they're in free-fall. And (unfortunately), 4K never captured more than a few percent share on most films.

When disc was the only primary delivery mechanism for quality presentation in the home, it made a lot of sense. As we went from DVD to Blu-ray to 4K, it was miraculous. But with the alternatives available, it really only makes sense for films that one wants to watch multiple times or for films that aren't available on a streaming service. It's been a long time since I bought a disc because there hasn't been anything I can imagine watching three times. And I have to admit it's pretty rare that I put a disc on - I go and look at the discs and can never decide what to watch.

It's not that digital is a big FU to physical. It's that consumers of physical have essentially said FU to the studios and distributors so they're seeking other ways to generate revenue. In 2009, the U.S. physical market was $11b. In 2021, it was $2.04 billion. I stopped tracking it after that, but it's definitely lower now.

Having said that, with consumers "cutting the cord" in regards to cable and ever increasing prices for streaming services as well as a push by the streaming services towards ad-supported streaming, there could well be a backlash in the future and therefore a return to physical media as a preferred medium.

And I think you missed the point about cost. My bet is that the advance digital purchase is going to be quite pricey.