Holy Grail of "lost" films (1 Viewer)

[LeoA]

The Land Before Time from the late 1980's, one of the last fully hand animated feature length films (Perhaps even the last without any CGI), had a lot of cuts before release to get a G rating.

The uncut original with numerous scenes not seen in the theatrical release was apparently destroyed meaning that the film as the director/producer saw it no longer exists and will never see the light of day.

A shame for a fine movie.

 

[Stefan Andersson]

The Honey Pot

UK release version, 150 mins., unavailable on DVD. From the ImdB:

The film opened first in London, some two months before its American opening. At its premiere, it ran to 150 minutes, and almost all British reviews commented on its being overlong. By the time it went on general release in Britain, it had been cut by 18 minutes, and this version is the one shown on television and released on DVD. Herschel Bernardi, prominently billed in the original advertising, had had his role deleted entirely, whilst Massimo Serato appears only for a second or two in Capucine's first scene. (There is a brief and now-inexplicable reference to the Bernardi character late in the film.) Both actors are, however, featured in the cast-list at the end of the film, although Serato's surname is mis-spelled as "Serrato".

The Charge of the Light Brigade (1968)

The existing R1 DVD is missing several sequences included on a 1990s UK VHS (itself censored for animal cruelty).
From the ImdB:

Although the cinema version was complete the 1993 UK video release was cut by 7 secs to edit footage of horse-falls. The 2008 Optimum DVD has the cuts length extended to 14 secs and features the 6 minutes shorter print as mentioned below.

The American release version (MGM/UA Region 1 DVD) is missing six minutes 45 seconds' worth of material present in the UK VHS tape released in 1992. The latter has a running time (adjusted to 24fps) of about 136 mins compared to the DVD which runs about 130 mins. Three sections are affected: Clarissa's wedding reception; a church service; and three consecutive scenes in the Crimea, involving a sentry failing to identify Lord Raglan at night and shooting at him, piercing his hat; the sentry being flogged but earning a reward from Lord Cardigan for his bravery; and Captains Nolan and Morris eating the breakfasts of several enlisted men while out riding. The British tape is itself missing seven seconds of footage cut by the censor (shots of trip-wired horses during the charge) and is still short of the original running times of 138 minutes 40 seconds as registered by the British Board of Film Censors in 1968, 141 minutes as listed in most reference sources, and 145 minutes as reviewed by Variety.


Isadora (1968)

The original 168 min. cut is unavailable on DVD. The subsequent 138 min. cut is out on DVD. A later director´s cut (153 mins) has been released on VHS.

http://thepassionatemoviegoer.blogspot.se/2010/04/cinema-obscura-karel-reiszs-isadora.html
http://www.mondo-digital.com/isadora.html

 

[Alan Tully]

The Charge of the Light Brigade (1968) The existing R1 DVD is missing several sequences included on a 1990s UK VHS (itself censored for animal cruelty).From the ImdB: Although the cinema version was complete the 1993 UK video release was cut by 7 secs to edit footage of horse-falls. The 2008 Optimum DVD has the cuts length extended to 14 secs and features the 6 minutes shorter print as mentioned below. The American release version (MGM/UA Region 1 DVD) is missing six minutes 45 seconds' worth of material present in the UK VHS tape released in 1992. The latter has a running time (adjusted to 24fps) of about 136 mins compared to the DVD which runs about 130 mins. Three sections are affected: Clarissa's wedding reception; a church service; and three consecutive scenes in the Crimea, involving a sentry failing to identify Lord Raglan at night and shooting at him, piercing his hat; the sentry being flogged but earning a reward from Lord Cardigan for his bravery; and Captains Nolan and Morris eating the breakfasts of several enlisted men while out riding. The British tape is itself missing seven seconds of footage cut by the censor (shots of trip-wired horses during the charge) and is still short of the original running times of 138 minutes 40 seconds as registered by the British Board of Film Censors in 1968, 141 minutes as listed in most reference sources, and 145 minutes as reviewed by Variety.

Nice one. I love The Charge Of The Light Brigade, & can still remember when I saw it at the cinema: the best main titles ever. We need a complete restored version (BFI?) with those missing scenes back in, they're important, esp. Noland & Morris pinching the soldiers breakfast without a thought - & one of the soldiers was the man who got a flogging for Noland (the actor Norman Rossington) & those attitudes are what the film is really about, not about the charge. There is a French Blu-ray, but by all accounts it's the same as & looks just as bad as the DVD.

 

[bigshot]

This is a great article. EVERYONE should read this.

There is one other thing the article glosses over. I heard from film collector friends that Haver and the studio called in the FBI and they raided the collector with the Star is Born footage. Heavy handed tactics like that guarantee non cooperation.

 

[Dave B Ferris]

I think there will be (or just was) a showing in L.A. of found footage (not the entire movie) of Orson Welles' "Too Much Johnson".Speaking of "too much", is it too much too hope that the entire movie could one day be found?

 

[sonomatom1]

bigshot: I find your antecdote about Haver and the FBI sounding a little apocryphal with just a dash of sour grapes added. Haver is no longer with us to explain or defend his actions, but it seems pretty obvious to me that Warners would not get involved unless it had good reason to believe that some individual had a stolen copy of ASIB. And if the FBI did, indeed, retrieive a copy of the film, obviously it did not fall into Haver's hands, and if Warners has it back, it doesn't appear that they plan to do anything with it -- unless -heaven forbid! - it's rotting away in some FBI evidence locker somewhere.

As I wrote earlier, I'm not writing to defend Ronald Haver. I know very little about the man or his motives; I am just grateful for the work he did on Garland's greatest triumph.

 

[Moe Dickstein]

Dave - what was found of the Welles project is everything I believe. It was actually a hybrid film-stage production so the missing sections are the actual stage work.

 

[Dave B Ferris]

^http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/moviesnow/la-et-mn-turan-on-film-20140420-story.html#page=1This article talks about 66 minutes, out of nearly 4 hours.I suppose it could be like any other film, even a film shot today, with extra footage (is "coverage" the term I've seen used before?) that is discarded during editing or post-production.To me, though, it is not clear that the 66 minutes represents what would have been considered the "full" film, even given the hybridized nature of the project.

 

[Moe Dickstein]

I don't think the EDITED version of that would even have been that long. I remember reading what was intended to be used was maybe 20-40 minutes worth of filmed material and the rest was the live stage show.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I'd love to see a complete version of Frank Capra's "Lost Horizon" -- the current DVD has a complete audio track, but the picture is a mix of 35mm, 16mm and stills (about 10 minutes worth) -- I'd love it if those moments covered by stills could be located one day.

And based on semi-recent news, it doesn't seem truly "lost" just "buried" but I'd love to see the original premiere version of "2001: A Space Odyssey" -- it's my all-time favorite movie and seeing the slightly longer version would be my personal holy grail.

 

[Dave B Ferris]

I don't think the EDITED version of that would even have been that long. I remember reading what was intended to be used was maybe 20-40 minutes worth of filmed material and the rest was the live stage show.

Paradoxically, I'm getting *more* confused. Would you be able to point me to another similarly hybridized (more modern) project that I could use as the basis for a comparison?Or would Welles' project have been a forerunner to today's presentations during which a live play staged at, say, one of London's famous playhouses, is broadcast (live) in theaters across the world?

 

[Moe Dickstein]

The filmed material would have introduced each act of the stage play.

 

[ljgranberry]

My real wish for a find is the uncut AMBERSONS. Just out of curiosity - has anyone ever done an exhaustive search in South America to find the print Welles worked on while there? That seems like the best chance to find it.

This ultimately makes me think that all of us who love film need to pool our resources and get kickstarter campaigns going to save and recover what we can. It's just that damn lack of money thing.

 

[Michael Elliott]

Can't believe I forgot this one but the alternate ending to THE SHINING would be very high on my list as well.

 

[MatthewA]

My holy grails:

—The original premiere version of 2001: A Space Odyssey (IIRC, Kubrick was the one who ordered the cuts in the first place)
—The original pre-reshoot version of 54, similar to the OutFest cut assembled on tape in 2008.
—The first verse of "Easy Street" from Annie (1982), as well as other cut scenes shown in the PBS making-of documentary.
—"A Step in the Right Direction" from Bedknobs and Broomsticks, as well as any audio tracks that as of now only exist as inconsistent-at-best redubs
—Numerous cut-and-reshot scenes from The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas
—The 12 minutes of The Black Cauldron cut by Jeffrey Katzenberg
—"Shall I Tell You What I Think Of You," filmed for The King & I but cut (some of the other numbers were only recorded for the soundtrack album, according to the expanded CD liner notes from the 1996 laserdisc box set)
—The original cut of The Magnificent Ambersons
—The longer UK cut of The Muppet Movie, last scene on a UK VHS tape in 1987
—Two cut songs and a bunch of dramatic scenes cut from The One and Only Genuine Original Family Band. Robert B. Sherman called the studio "horses' asses" for cutting it.
—The song lyrics to two songs in Pete's Dragon that are, as of now, only heard on the soundtrack album
—The uncut print of A Star is Born (1954); to think all this wasted time could have been prevented if they'd just credited Arick for finding the uncut A Streetcar Named Desire.
—Richard Williams' original intent for The Thief and the Cobbler. He's in his 80s, so time is of the essence.
—The original preview cut of The Watcher in the Woods that Anchor Bay tried to restore when it held the license, but was prevented by Michael Eisner.
—"The Jitterbug" from The Wizard of Oz

 

[bruceames]

Off the top of my head, the original music and effects track for Lucky Star (which also had talking sequences), as well as City Girl, and the 1929 version of Show Boat.

 

[Ignatius]

Plenty of great films already mentioned, so I'll dedicate my small list to some off-the-beaten-path exploitation stuff.

All of trash auteur Andy Milligan's early work (with the exception of his very first short film) is missing, rumoured melted down by producer William Mishkin. Exploitation legend Michael Findlay's first feature "Body of a Female" is also missing, a pity as it features his then girlfriend Roberta Findlay in the starring role. Possibly the greatest exploitation holy grail is Roger Watkins 3-hour "The Cuckoo Clocks of Hell", edited without the director's knowledge by the distributor into the infamous "Last House on Dead End Street". Almost no chance the original still exists in any form, but many of us are holding out hope.

The world of early gay pornography is littered with films either totally missing, or only available on fuzzy VHS copies. Many productions were shot quickly on 16mm and had very few prints made, all of which were subsequently exhibited until they fell apart.

Then there's the multitude of standard exploitation films for which all physical elements have disappeared into the ether. I'm particularly interested in seeing elements found for Jose Ramon Larraz's excellent "Symptoms", starring Angela Pleasance. Watchable VHS bootlegs aren't hard to find, but the lack of film elements have led to the BFI including it on their 75 Most Wanted list.

And lastly there's the already mentioned Ken Russell's "The Devils", which has had some significant footage restored under the late Russell's supervision. Sadly the restoration only exists in standard definition, and Warner has only allowed the restored version to be screened a few times by the BFI while deliberately preventing any other release.

 

[SilverWook]

Can't believe I forgot this one but the alternate ending to THE SHINING would be very high on my list as well.

The Eastman House advertised a Halloween screening of a print with that ending intact a few years back.

http://www.slashfilm.com/rare-uncut-version-shining-screen-new-york/

Then suddenly, they backpedaled without much explanation.

http://news.moviefone.com/2011/09/19/rare-chance-to-see-the-uncut-version-of-the-shining-if-you-li/

Did somebody get their wires crossed, (as the European cut is shorter) or did the Kubrick estate object?

 

[Jari K]

The European (at least some of them) BDs include the "international" version of The Shining. US BD has the US version. Do you mean these differences?

 

[Eric Vedowski]

My real wish for a find is the uncut AMBERSONS. Just out of curiosity - has anyone ever done an exhaustive search in South America to find the print Welles worked on while there? That seems like the best chance to find it.

This ultimately makes me think that all of us who love film need to pool our resources and get kickstarter campaigns going to save and recover what we can. It's just that damn lack of money thing.

Vanity Fair magazine did a story on the search in South America:
http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/classic/features/magnificent-obsession-200201