Hey Austin Texas Buddies? Can anyone help me out? (1 Viewer)

[Chad Anson]

Nils, thanks for the offer. I'm definitely game.

I'll leave it to you and Jeff to pick a date. My weekends are pretty packed with theater room construction but I'm always happy to take a few hours off to play with my new toy.

 

[Jonathan DA]

8 weeks to convert a garage to a theater? I think I've had my setup for over 6 months and I still haven't finished my room, and all I had to do was retrofit an existing space. Something's not right here. Oh yeah, it's me.

 

[Jonathan DA]

Mike, 10'x5' isn't an optimal dimensioning scheme for a movie screen. I would suggest you trim your plastex sheet to a 1.78:1 ratio (106.8"x60") which matches the native aspect ratio of your projector. Even then it seems like a really big screen for WVGA resolution.

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

(scratching my head)... Mike, what happened to the screen made from blackout material? You sure do a lot of 360 turns in your HT decision making don't you?

RPTV -> DLP -> LCD + Blackout screen -> PLAS-TEX screen -> Dazian Celtic screen

Thre different display devices, and three different screens, all in just a couple months... WOW!


Any how... You'll have to forgive our friend Dr. J, he comes from the world of CRT so he isn't familiar with the "Zoom" option which would allow you to use a 2:1 ratio screen when watching material of the same or greater aspect ratio and considering that 2.35 is a popular choice of film makers this means that you would have plenty of oppertunity to use a 10x5 screen.

On the other hand I would recommend you trim your 10x5 screen as Dr. J suggested because it would mean having to constantly adjust your zoom depending on the aspect ratio of each source. If you didn't adjust the zoom, the top and bottom of any image less than 2:1 ratio would be off your screen.

Now Dr. J also brought up another important issue, and that is your projector's resolution. I would agree with Dr. J that the projector you have (Sanyo Z1 - unless of course you have changed it yet again?) doesn't have a high enough resolution to be used with a screen larger than 7' wide unless you are planning on sitting at least 15' from the screen or don't mind the image to be slightly pixilated (screen door).

But even then you have some other issues with your Z1, which I pointed out before and that is it doesn't have enough lumens (only 700max, +/-500calibrated) either to produce an ideal image larger than 7' wide, unless you use a screen with a much higher gain.

So it may sound like I am suggesting you trim your PLAS-TEX screen to about 7'x4' - but I'm not, and here is why:

Regardless of what size image you want/need to have and what size screen would be needed you would still want to mask it as there are numerous differences in aspect ratios from different sources (4:3,16:9,1.85:1,2.35:1, 2.74:1,etc). So regardless of your size/shape of screen you will want to be able to adjust the masking on all four sides. For this reason, ideally you want the largest possible screen you are willing to make/buy and install. Then you simply mask the screen to match the exact size and shape of the image you are watching.

This is precisely how movie theaters do it, and how HT systems should be designed for. Consider this, you buy a projector that is really only capable of displaying a quality image of say about 92" diagonal, but a couple years later you upgrade to a new projector that is capable of displaying up to a 120" diagonal image. Had you installed a screen that would only fit a 92" diagonal image than you will be forced to buy/make a brand new screen.

Masking makes screen sizes irrelevant and if for that reason alone they should be used. The fact that they also significantly improve the presentation of the screen and prevent any ambient light from being reflected onto the unused portion of the screen (such as what occurs when you use a 16:9 screen while watching DVDs with 1.85:1 or greater aspect ratios). Also if you are using a DLP, masking will also absorb any light halos that could otherwise be reflected by the wall behind the screen.

BOTTOM LINE: My advice is to install the largest screen possible that you are comfortable with. Install 4-way masking such that no matter what projector you are using, and no matter what the aspect ratio is from your source, you will always have a screen that matches them perfectly.

 

[mike_frontier]

Hi Nils and all.

Thanks guys for the feedback.
I plan on doing an 10x5 frame and then the screen material.

As for for the ZOOM adjustments on my 1HD it is all the way off and a 7'x4' will not work due to where my PJ is at and how far away. You have to understand that I am projecting over my 32" TV and entertainment center so that what makes my setup really unique and the SMALLEST image from where my PJ is is 96" wide in 16:9 Natve and zoom all the way off. But so for the aspect ratios no matter what I view since my settings on my PJ are 16:9 native, ZOOM and 4:3, w/ the zoom all the way off all the movies I have seen still puts out an 96" wide image. If I zoom my lens at all the SOB is huge. So the reason why I am going with 10x5 is I will just have enough if I want to use the zoom option if I plan to move it or ever move to a house with a much larger living area it will work out better then also.

Since I have my PJ sitting about 13.5' - 14' back from the wall my screen image like I stated is 96" (16:9 native)... unless I am doing something wrong. :frowning:

I did plan on going with Parker Plastic,,, but since I found out about Dazian Celtic cloth they are sending me out a sample fabric. I think the Dazian will be a much better screen material since its made for PJ's,, well at least what John told me from Dazian .

So still this weekend I am doing the frame and going to be borrowing a miter saw(spelling ?) so I can butt the end of frames together.

The demo fabric will be here on Monday and if it works out I will get an order for it next week.

I know my image will not be 120" wide (10') but I will have curtins and drapers to fill in the extra on the screen so I will not see all of it, just like Nils screen is (Nils, is that what you meant by masking?).

Since I owned an PJ I been hooked. No LIE!! I love the big screen and I cannot see screen door even sitting 12 feet + back away from my wall. The only thing I seem to lack is higher colors contrast since its b/c of the wall texture, but that should be fixed .

Nils and all thanks for the info you have provided to me and I might have to ask you guys for your assistance to help me caliberate my equipment to get it all better once I get everything together. Once its final and complete I will do a movie night for sure!!

If you think I gone through allot of PJs and my final decision,,,, you cannnot even imagine how many centers speakers I messed with before I decided to get the one that I have now. lol

 

[Jeff Meininger]

Chad: I'm for picking a time that will work well for you. If you'd rather be building the HT during the weekend, a weekday-night evening would be fine with me! I'll post later with more details... I'm on the way out the door.

THANKS!!!

 

[Hank Frankenberg]

I agree with Nils "few details included" Luehrmann - his screen is the way to go. The black velvet masking really makes the image theater-like. Remember the threads a couple of years ago when folks were "masking" their direct view TV's? Well, I tried it and it works - replacing the "black bars" with truly black material showed the bars were actually dark grey, and the contrast between truly black and the screen image makes the image *pop*.

Mike, you DID spell "miter" correctly (although you could use the Queen's good English and go with mitre), but you probably had the measles during the week that that the English teacher covered "a" and "an".

Nils, regarding Mike's CC speaker quest, you probably shouldn't go there.

 

[Jonathan DA]

I figured I'd get flak from the digital guys over that I was coming at it from the angle that the pj is probably going to be up on the ceiling and you're probably not going to want mess with zooming it in and out all the time to fill up the width of the screen. Or maybe it has a powered zoom? The other thing I was considering was aesthetics; if your pj is in a multi-use room then personally I would want to minimize the visual impact of the screen, and the extra wide masks on the sides would annoy me.

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

Dr. J

I was just messing with you.

(It's not often that I get a chance to poke fun of CRT owners, so when one comes up I just have to take advantage of it.)

As it is, the Z1 doesn't have a power zoom, but frankly even if it did, or Mike had a projector with a power zoom, I still wouldn't recommend a set-up where you would zoom in on sources greater than 2:1 because ideally you want a HT designed for a specific viewing distance to screen width ratio that best meets the needs of the owner and the performance capabilities of the projector. Once you have that set-up correctly, and then start monkeying around with the zoom it will change those parameters and will adversely effect the quality of the image.

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

I agree with Nils "few details included" Luehrmann - his screen is the way to go

I wouldn't go so far as to say that. My screen is still a work in progress as I have not yet resolved the best way to manually control all four masks (which is also why I have not yet installed the bottom mask). I was originally going to have a single drawstring for the two vertical (left and right) masks, but I soon discovered that believe it or not, not all 4:3 sources are centered such that masking them properly would mean having the ability to adjust each side separately. This also goes for the horizontal (top and bottom) masking as well.

Once I have my masking system completed, Linda will finish it all out with decorative curtains such that the masking is not so intrusive to the aesthetics of the room.
(as pointed out by our resident interior decorator Dr. J)

 

[Jonathan DA]

Hey Mike, did you already order your Dazian cloth? I was just reading this thread over at AVS and noted that this cloth seems primarily suited to people who are looking for an acoustically transparent screen that will not be used against a wall. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that doesn't sound like your installation. Are you sure this is the best material for you?

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

I wasn't going to say anything regarding Dazian CC screens, in fear it would cause Mike to have yet another 180 degree turn, but Dr. J is absolutely correct and in fact CC screen material is designed for huge commercial theater screens such that the holes from the perforated material are much more noticeable up close than perforated screen material designed for HT use. This is also why CC screens leak a significant amount of light and frankly would have a severe impact on the PQ of Mike's Sanyo Z1 clone, which has few lumens to work with in the first place.

Still, for just $50, it may be worth at least trying it out, but considering there are far better choices for even less (blackout material and PLAS-TEX being the most obvious), that $50 may not be such a great investment.

The only reason I would even suggest considering Dazian is if all of the following were true:

1) The screen placement was such that it has to cover one or more speakers.

2) The projector being used has more than 1000 calibrated lumens.

3) The viewing distance is at least 12 feet.

4) I was unable to find a perforated screen specifically for HT use for less than $250.

Mike, I admire your tenacity and 'seize the day' mentality. Its refreshing to see someone who doesn't spend eternity always on the fence infinitely contemplating and evaluating decisions - and therefore unable to make any.

On the other hand it may quite possibly be that you have swung to the opposite side of the extreme and as such are pulling the trigger too fast on all these HT decisions before you have had a reasonable chance for evaluating the impact.

 

[Jeff Meininger]

Well, looks like my L300U shipped and I didn't even know it. It should arrive on the 13th!

Chad Anson: thank you for your kind offer to demo your PJ for my wife and me. I appreciate it, but at this point we'll have ours before we could schedule anything anyway.

 

[Chad Anson]

Jeff,
No problem, hope you enjoy it! Do you have a screen yet? I'm going to build a frame but order Da-lite screen material (HCCV to be more precise). The material is a little more expensive than some of the DIY materials, but not unreasonably so (~ $4.50/sq. ft.)

 

[Jeff Meininger]

I ultimately want to build a fixed screen in a dedicated room, but current we have to use a pull-down in front of a window in the living room for now. I'm using Da-Lite Matte White.

 

[mike_frontier]

Dr. J and Nils,

Thanks for the replies and comments.
I was out for a while since we have an new little baby girl to the addition to our family, but we brought her home yesterday .

But as for the Dazian material I did check all the info out on AVS.com and I personally PM'ed some people that have or used the Dazian material that I would be interested in and they had nothing but great comments on it. One person whom I chatted with and exchanged e-mails owns it and runs an z1 (I have an 1HD) and claims that all he did was run an black felt cloth behind the screen and it was great looking. The person was very nice and even sent spme snap shots of it in action and the colors as he even stated were pretty nice and claims its much more brigher in person. Here they are:

http://us.f148.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Sho...&view=a&head=b

http://us.f148.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Sho...&view=a&head=b

http://us.f148.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Sho...&view=a&head=b

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

Mike,

A couple important things to keep in mind.

Screen shots are practically useless and very misleading as they tell more about the photographer and the camera and almost nothing regarding the image quality of a projector and/or screen. I can promise you that if you gave me two different cameras and I used them to take a photo of the exact same screen shot - they would not look identical. Not only that, but when looking at screen shots you are adding even more variables (different lighting, screens, equipment). Screen shots are more like eye candy and using them to evaluate the performance of a projector, screen, etc would be extremely risky.

The other thing to keep in mind is that while these forums can offer some seriously valuable information and advice, unfortunately there are far too many messages from people with very little experience and yet will gladly offer reviews how "spectacular" their equipment is. I would bet that the far majority of those types of posts are not intended to mislead anyone, but rather they are from people who have not compared their equipment to many other similar products.

For instance if someone had Bose speakers and had not compared them to many if any other speakers, then I have no doubt they would feel comfortable about posting a highly positive review of them. Of course we all know better than to use "Bose" and "quality speaker" in the same sentence, but that's because we have compared them to others.

It is no different than these posters claiming that the Dazian CC screen is fantastic. In the fact that that is what they are using and haven't compared them to other screen material then I can understand their sentiment.

BOTTOM LINE: Mike, by all means, make yourself a Dazian CC screen and as long as you never compare it to another screen while you own it, I suppose you will be satisfied, but if you do and are disappointed with the Dazian - just remember we all tried to warn you. :frowning:

 

[Jonathan DA]

Hey Nils, I think it's time to update your .sig for St. Patrick's Day. Let's see the little one with a pint!

 

[Chad Anson]

I'm not getting the Dazian CC myself, but came across the following that might be helpful

use black velvet backing behind Dacian Celtic
Hi folks,
I just recently switched from blackout fabric to the Dazian Celtic cloth. I use screen door bug screen channel mounted on the back of my frame to attach the screen material with...makes it easy to tighten and change materials...I have an older (pre-1990) Runco CRT projector.

Celtic cloth with no backing - frame supports are visible through screen, colors are somewhat washed out

Celtic cloth with blackout cloth backing - color still washed out but better than no backing, some bright spots, overall picture better than just the blackout fabric as a screen

Celtic cloth with black velvet backing - vibrant colors with sharp contrasts, black is very black, picture is much better than the blackout cloth

I did not even have to stretch the black velvet fabric tightly behind it...imperfections in the velvet (ripples, etc.) are not noticeable in the screen picture.

The picture color and contrast changed so much this way, that I had to dig out the old Avia DVD and readjust everything. I am very pleased with the result...try it yourself

You could probably get a sample for free from Dazian.

 

[Nils Luehrmann]