Discussion on the HTF article on studios dumbing down the DVD format (1 Viewer)

[Glenn Overholt]

Michael, if I may. An HD-DVD would certainly look better, but only if seen on a large screen, and most people cannot afford them, so I don't think that a re-buy would be in order for the average person. If Joe buys a movie and it doesn't get damaged, it will last 'forever' and he wouldn't waste his money on them. (They'd buy another six pack!)
Glenn

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Michael, if I may. An HD-DVD would certainly look better, but only if seen on a large screen, and most people cannot afford them, so I don't think that a re-buy would be in order for the average person.

That's why I'm guessing 10 years or more...if HD ever comes into vogue for the mass market, it will take at least that long.
Regardless, re-buy for standard-definition will never happen. The six-packers will just stretch it if they ever get a wide set, and the hardcores will have boycotted the original pan-and-scan to begin with. You aren't going to sell two copies to anybody with that strategy. Remasters and SEs will result in far more rebuys.

 

[William J Hudson]

Ok, so I've skimmed this massive thread, which is mostly just a discussion about what's apparently happening (the rise of P&S popularity) But I was hoping to find info about what we can do about it.
So, can anyone tell me...
What can we do about it??? Please, I want to know anything that can be done...
Thanks.
-William J. Hudson

 

[MickeS]

What we can do are unfortunately things that most of us do already:

Don't buy or rent P&S products.

If you can't find an OAR version of a DVD in your store, tell the store about it, and let them know that you won't buy P&S.

Inform friends and others who are willing to listen about the benefits of OAR versus P&S.

Send letters to, e-mail or call the DVD distributors and ask for OAR versions of upcoming movies, and let them know that we appreciate their efforts to put out OAR DVD's.

There's not much else we can do I think. I've done all of the above, and I'll keep doing it, but I don't think it'll help much.

/Mike

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Well written, but I think the focus against any P/S inclusion is too strong.
If stuidos did do their job proplery with "turorials" to educate the public, as you suggest, and then provided both versions, more and more consumers would choose to watch the widescreen version as a natural course and the P/S crowd would shrink of it's own accord. This would be a more gentle approach than just "forcing" the uneducated viewer to watch widescreen without any other provision.

Quote:

Well, for starters, have you called Disney? Have you written to Costco and Walmart at told them that you like your black bars on your TV...that you don't want P/S only?
When you contact these entities do not brag about being a member of HTF or any other "club" which, in their minds, places your opinions in a niche that's only occupied by other "non average" consumers.
You want to sound like a "normal" consumer who just happens to know what widescreen is all about and doesn't want P/S only DVDs.

 

[Brian Treinen]

As I always have said before entering the GLORIOUS world of 7.1 in home DVD movie viewing in OAR - whenever that green screen came up when watching a VHS tape that said "This film has been altered to fit your screen" I would shout out "YOU BASTARDS!!!" as my own personal revolt against pan and scan. Pan and scan is the reason I never got into HT with VHS tapes and owned only a handful of them. Since the day I bought our first DVD player and DVDs everything has changed - I am now a movie and HT enthusiast - at a minimum! I own almost 400 movies on DVD and have refused to buy pan and scan titles. I want the movie, the whole movie and nothing but the movie - except maybe for a few extras and a commentary

 

[DaViD Boulet]

An HD-DVD would certainly look better, but only if seen on a large screen, and most people cannot afford them.

Right now you can purchase a 16x9 LCD projector that will do 480P and blow-away the image from just about any Rear-projection set out there (excepting black-level)...for around $2,000.
In five years time we'll have HD-res 16x9 digital projectors that cost $2,000. That's attainable. That's as much as most decent RP sets cost right now. Once J6P walks into best-buy and sees an HD image (or even a good DVD image) on a front-projection screen he will start planning on how to convince his wife to let him buy it.
If you've seen good front projection then you know what I'm talking about because you're trying to convince your partner right now

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Right now you can purchase a 16x9 LCD projector that will do 480P and blow-away the image from just about any Rear-projection set out there (excepting black-level)...for around $2,000.

Except the LCD projector likely has visible line structure at convenient viewing distances, and the rear-projection set probably does 1080i and has a better built-in line doubler for NTSC sources, saving hundreds of dollars...and if you watch a lot, lamp costs can exceed the price of the projector in a few years. Not to mention the cost (for most people) of light control, screen, and other room treatments to make it all come together.
It's all about tradeoffs. There are tradeoffs other than black level given each individual situation.
But I'm certainly planning on buying a 1080p, 3-chip front projector at some point.

 

[Steve O]

William,

What can we do about it??? Please, I want to know anything that can be done...

If you want to help with a REAL SOLUTION, see this thread:
Widescreen Education Consortium
It's a solutions thread, so please bring your best talents to help with the cause.
:star:

 

[Carl Hood]

Totally agree with all said! The thought of pan & scan only makes me shudder. In Australia, "Harry Potter" is available P&S only .... so I purchased out of the UK instead who at least gave me a choice.

Further more, as sales of widescreen TV sets gain ground, these same people crying for pan & scan now are going to complain about black bars again - only this time at the sides! So who's the winner then?

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Further more, as sales of widescreen TV sets gain ground, these same people crying for pan & scan now are going to complain about black bars again - only this time at the sides!

Since I love to repeat myself, they will just stretch the image and not give a crap!

 

[streeter]

Ron, I have a suggestion for you. In the 2001 report of one of the chapters of the VSDA, an organization a lot more powerful in affecting studio practices than the HTF, it is mentioned that store owners would like to see SINGLE releases with both the widescreen and fullscreen on the same disc. Granted, many stores put stickers on their discs (grrr!) and are thus annoyed with double-sided discs, but if this is what independent video store owners prefer for their customers, maybe you should team up with them, and try to get the entire organization to have a position that they prefer double-sided discs.

 

[Terrell]

I'll just say this to any studio releasing DVDs in pan & scan. I don't care if it's a DVD I really want.
READ MY LIPS
I will not buy any of your DVDs that are not in letterbox at least. All of your releases should be in original aspect ratio, and anamorphic widescreen. At the very least, they should be in original aspect ratio letterbox. You're doing the DVD format and consumers a severe disservice. Educate consumers. Release the DVDs in anamorphic widescreen, regardless of what Wal-Mart moms and dads want. Do right by the consumer, the director, the enthusiast, and yourselves by treating the films the way they should be treated. If you don't, you can count this 102 DVD owner out.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Terrell,

Did you contact Disney yet? Also, if any of you are interested in the here-and-now situation with Muppet Treasure Island and Christmas Carol please contact Brian Henson ([email protected]) and other contacts and Henson Co. and let them know you want them to ask Disney to go 16x9 WS with these films to satisfy the Muppet fans desire to have OAR.

Next task...contact Walmart, Best Buy, and Block Buster and tell them you PREFER WS and that you're upset that they've put pressure on the studios to go P/S only or issue separate releases (as they only order the P/S version)...you want *both* versions on one disc.

 

[John Berggren]

David:

Has it been confirmed that this email address will get to Brian Henson? I'd love to get in touch with him on the Muppet Widescreen issue as well as Fraggle Rock.

Has anyone received a reply from a message sent there?

 

[Lars Vermundsberget]

Quote: "I WILL NOT by any Pan& Scan movies, unless that was there original aspect ratio when shot."

Couldn't be. P&S means that the presentation has been altered from the OAR.

 

[Lars Vermundsberget]

Ryan Spaight wrote:

"2) People aren't uninformed, they simply don't care. They're not interested in "artisitic intent," they just want to watch a movie."

If they don't care about the art and just want to "watch the movie", they could DO JUST THAT - and stop focusing on the unused screen space (or so-called "black bars").

 

[DaViD Boulet]

John, please contact any and all of the following:
Brian Henson: [email protected]
Michael R. Polis
The Jim Henson Company
Senior Vice President of Marketing Worldwide
1416 N. La Brea Avenue
Hollywood, CA 90028
323-802-1500
[email protected]
Debbie McClellan
The Jim Henson Company
Vice President of Corporate Communications & Publicity Worldwide
1416 N. La Brea Avenue
Hollywood, CA 90028
323-802-1500
[email protected]
Betts Fitzgerald
The Jim Henson Company
Sr. Vice President, Licensing
117 East 69th Street
New York, NY 10021
212-794-2400
[email protected]
I sent emails to all 4 and the only reply I got was an "out of office" memo from one woman (which provided an alternate email in the interim so I sent one to that too ) so I know the naming convention/domain is correct.
Whether Brain actually reads first-hand the emails sent to "his" email address or has a secretarial staff who sift through and filter message for him who can say. Sending your email to him and the others certainly increases the chances that they will be read vs not sending them at all
(the following is *not* directed at John, but rather the apethetic majority)
It's a shame how many people on this forum complain and complain but won't do the slightest thing to actually contact these agents at the studios to effect any real change
So let your voice be heard! You CAN make a difference!!!
p.s. feel free to *call* Henson Company too. That's what I'm about to do too.
-dave

 

[Irens Cruz]

Ron
Great article.
Another very important point is that the digital format will be widescreen. What will these people do with their PS DVDs on Widescreen TVs ?
Probably someone else already posted about this but I couldn't read all 13 or more pages
congratulations again.
Jr.

 

[Karl Englebright]

David.

Well, I sent emails to all 4 people on your list. Chances are it won't matter a bit, but a least they will know my opinion on the subject!

It's very important that these people get the perception that there are many people that are angry over this issue.