Denon 1803 keeps blowing speakers

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by MarcW, Apr 2, 2003.

  1. MarcW

    MarcW Agent

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    A friend of mine bought a Denon 1803/Energy Take 5+1 package over christmas. After about a month of usage one of the rear woofers blew. He contacted Energy and they send him a replacement woofer. A few weeks later both of his front woofers blew. He contacted Energy again and now they are saying that he is driving the speakers too hard. The receiver is rated 80w/ch @ 8ohms. According to Energy's documentation on the Take 5+1 system the satellites recommended amp power is 15-100watts/channel. So if the speakers are supposed to be able to handle up to a 100watts/ch then how come 80watts/ch will blow the woofer ? He is not even pushing his receiver to the max. Usually his listening level is around -10db. If anyone has this specific receiver/speaker combo and could offer some advice my buddy would highly appreciate it.

    Thanks,
    -MarcW
     
  2. Keith Shaw

    Keith Shaw Agent

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    Did he set his front speakers to "small" in the receiver settings?
     
  3. Lee Bailey

    Lee Bailey Second Unit

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    He can be driving the amps in the receiver into clipping, and this can happen with sudden peaks. You're saying that he is running it at -10db below the max, that does not leave alot of headroom.
     
  4. Rich Malloy

    Rich Malloy Producer

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    I'm also guessing he's clipping the signal. In other words, it's not the speakers, it's the receiver. Simply not enough juice to get the volume he wants. Remember, it's far more dangerous to run with too little power than too much.

    Still, you say he's running at 10db below reference? Any receiver rated at 80watts/channel should easily be able to hit those levels with the easy-to-drive Energy speakers. And I'm also surprised that one of the rear woofers blew first... did he associate it with a particular loud sound?
     
  5. Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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    On my receiver, -10 is way past the half-way point. That’s some pretty hard driving for speakers with little 3½” woofers.

    Energy specs these speakers for small-to-medium sized rooms for this reason.

    Regards,
    Wayne A. Pflughaupt
     
  6. MarcW

    MarcW Agent

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    Thanks for the replies guys. His fronts are set to small on the receiver. I haven't heard his setup but I agree with Rich that running these speakers at -10db below reference shouldn't be a problem. My buddy tells me that at -10db DVD's are really not all that loud. So what are your suggestions ? Buy better speakers ?

    Thanks again,
    -MarcW
     
  7. Ian_A

    Ian_A Agent

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    Maybe your buddy when he set up the receiver he could have turned the volume for each speaker all the way up. The factory settings are 0 and if he just turned them to +12 thinking it would make it louder now that -10 on the Master volume is more like +5 and there will be no headroom left.
     
  8. JeremyFr

    JeremyFr Supporting Actor

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    I've got the 5+1's running off a Yammy 730 and have never had a need to get them past -20 on my reciever, though the satellites are internally crossed off at 90hz as to prevent blowing them, I've had mine since December and have had no problems with them at all. Depending on the source material used -10 could very easily drive the amp into clipping which yes would easily blow most speakers, I would suggest either something with a little better headroom or trying to listen to not nearly as loud.
     
  9. Marc H

    Marc H Second Unit

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    I would also guess at clipping too but it's usually the tweeter that goes first in that situation.
     
  10. Rich Malloy

    Rich Malloy Producer

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  11. Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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    Marc,

     
  12. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

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    I don't understand why so many people seem to think the only acceptable volume levels are maximum and slightly less than maximum. He is simply overdriving the speakers. The Energy Take 5 system and the Denon 1803 should be a perfect match for each other.
     
  13. Michael R Price

    Michael R Price Screenwriter

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    10db under reference is peaks of 95db per channel at the listening position if everything's properly calibrated. In a large room there may be a 6-10db drop in SPL from the level at one meter... so he's asking way too much of those little speakers. Their low efficiency may be causing the amp to clip trying to get to those levels, but that's not the problem - woofers wouldn't be damaged by clipping, but rather by too much power (distorted or not). It's not the receiver's fault.

    Unfortunately, if you want big sound in a big room, you'll probably need big speakers.
     
  14. Adam Bluhm

    Adam Bluhm Supporting Actor

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    Just for a reference, I'm powering JBL S26II's all around with an 1802. I'm in a small room, but I've never had any clipping or powerloss problems... from Dumb and Dumber to Lord of the Rings, it's worked okay.

    .. just a reference.
     
  15. Craig Morris

    Craig Morris Stunt Coordinator

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    I'm not denying that he may be overdriving the Take 5's, but I would like to point out that the original Take 5's had an internal built-in high pass filter to protect them.

    Maybe they dropped it on the 5.2's...

    I also thought that clipping would blow his tweeter first.
     
  16. Adam Bluhm

    Adam Bluhm Supporting Actor

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    By the way,

    I posted what I did above because I am not knowledgeable enough to give two cents and figure out how this happened. I figured that if I post what I did, it might strike a candle for one of you more knowledgeable fellows.
     
  17. EricSm

    EricSm Stunt Coordinator

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    I have used my 1803 with a Polk RM-6600 system and have had zero problems driving them at whatever listening levels I find strike my fancy. I doubt the energy take system would be significantly different in regards to the load they can take, and I also have a hard time imagining that there simply isn't enough power to drive them. Energy makes highly efficient speakers. Just my two cents, but I'd be shocked if there was an incompatibility between the receiver and the speakers. Sounds like something maybe faulty with the receiver, however. I'd email denon as well and see what they have to say, if anything. I think that receiver and those speakers would be a perfect match. Something is wrong somewhere...
     
  18. Marc H

    Marc H Second Unit

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    The 5.2s still have the buit-in high pass filter but it's ten hertz lower than on the original Takes.
    I wonder if the receiver might be leaking a bit of DC current when pushed. That would explain the woofers going first.
     
  19. Lee Bailey

    Lee Bailey Second Unit

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    If the receiver is still under warranty, take it in, explaining the problem. They should be able to re-create the conditions. Unfortunately, you'll be without sounds for a while.[​IMG]
     
  20. Phil Iturralde

    Phil Iturralde Screenwriter

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