Church movie connection area needs advice

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by tnoon, May 29, 2007.

  1. tnoon

    tnoon Auditioning

    Joined:
    May 28, 2007
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    We are rebuilding a 35 ft X 48 ft room at our church into a connection area that includes a statbucks type cafe and video theater combined. We'll do movie nights have super bowl parties, etc. We would like the home theater system to be a wow factor (within a reasonable budget). We are planning on a Mitsubishi 1000 projeector (we can darken the room quite nicely) and a 120 inch screen. Now for the sound sys? Thinking of an Onkyo TX - SR 804 receiver, gives good quality and allows us to hook up games as well as dvd, cable, etc. We'd like to budget around $1,200 for the speakers (7.1 system).

    We can use help in selecting a wow system on a budget, and any other advice on making the whole experience a place people will want to go even, if they have a home system.

    Thx fo any input you can give!
    blessings!!!!
     
  2. JohnRice

    JohnRice Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2000
    Messages:
    8,813
    Likes Received:
    207
    Real Name:
    John
    With that size room and budget, you probably should look into PA type speakers rather than home models. They have higher output, are more sensitive and are physically tougher. They won't have the absolute most accurate sound, but should provide the WOW factor. I don't see finding home speakers in that price which will come close to filling the bill.

    Unfortunately, I don't think you'll have any chance of finding a sub which even comes close to what you need within your budget. A good sub which will still not be able to fill that room will more than blow your entire speaker budget.
     
  3. MaxL

    MaxL Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 26, 2006
    Messages:
    503
    Likes Received:
    0
    that's a big room. i think you'd be hard pressed to fill it with "wow" levels of bass with that budget. my first thought is to get in touch with svs directly and see what they recommend. they won't steer you wrong. here's a link: http://www.svsound.com/customer-service.cfm
     
  4. MikeNg

    MikeNg Second Unit

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2004
    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think you'd be hard-pressed to put together a complete system that is appropriate for that room, within your $1200 budget. I agree with John. Consider pro gear when putting together your theater (it is not a HOME theater!). Consumer AVR's will not have enough muscle to fill a room that large - they just weren't designed for that purpose.

    You might need a 'reality check'. Get in contact with a local pro venue installer and have them give you a rough quote. My guess is that it will easily be about 10X what you are currently budgeting to do it right. You may also want to talk to your worship pastor/music director, or whomever runs the sound board for your church for input and insight...

    Mike
     
  5. Ennsio

    Ennsio Second Unit

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2007
    Messages:
    265
    Likes Received:
    0
    Another thing to make sure you have, Tom, is the proper license to show movies to an audience in your church - as the movie will not just be shown to "a private home audience" as mentioned in the FBI warnings at the beginning of every movie. A church needs this license anyway to show clips from movies during the service, so you might already have one. Just double check this and make sure it is in place. I don't think it is very expensive. I found out about this at a church ministry conference I was at, and I don't think our church had the appropriate license at the time but would have movie nights with the youth. Better to be safe than sorry, especially when it is reflecting on the church.
     
  6. MikeNg

    MikeNg Second Unit

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2004
    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    0
    Good point Chris. Want to make sure all the ducks are in order...
     
  7. Stephen Hopkins

    Stephen Hopkins HW Reviewer
    HW Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,598
    Likes Received:
    0
    This thread interested me from the begining, especially coming from a Church w/ a hodge-podge of equipment that made due for every application imaginable. I think with a budget increase to around $2000 - $2500 you can do very well with a mix of home and (mainly) pro oriented equipment. You're not going to be able to fill a room that size w/ 20hz bass... but something good down to around 40hz will still be in WOW territory in a room that size. I would say look at something like:

    Peavey PR10 10" 2-way Speakers x 5 - $150/ea, $750 total
    Peavey PV118 18" Subwoofer x 2 - $240/ea, $480 total
    Behringer EP1500 2x700w Amps x 3 (1 for mains, 1 for subs) - $300/ea, $600 total
    Behringer A500 2 x 230w Amps (1 for center, 1 for surrounds) - $200/ea, $400 total
    Marantz SR4600 Receiver - $250

    Total - $2480

    All but the Marantz receiver is available from Parts Express. The receiver is available for $250 from Accessories4less.com . The only duty being handled by a peice of home equipment would be processing and source switching. All the power and reproduction would come from pro level gear that should (within reason) be able to handle the occasional teenager turning it up louder than it should be.

    The only costs not accounted for are cabling (RCA to 1/4" cables for receiver-to-amps, 1/4" to 1/4" for amps-to-speakers), tripods if that's how you decide to mount the speakers, and shipping (free for the speakers and amps).

    Speakers - http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=248-830
    Subs - http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=248-840
    EP1500 Amps - http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=248-745
    A500 Amps - http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=248-745
    Receiver - http://www.accessories4less.com/cgi-bin/item/MARSR4600

    Setup is going to be a big part of how well the equipment really translates into the effect you're looking for (as well as how usable the room is). Depending on how you're arranging seating (temporary, permanent, long, wide) you could use the subs as the stands for the mains or you could put them closer to the seating areas for more output / tactile transmission. Also, depending on how you do your seating, a 120" screen may not be all that big. If the front row is 15' away and the back row is 30' away you may want to try to get more like 200"... at which point you may want to look for a brighter projector, even if resolution is traded off.
     
  8. tnoon

    tnoon Auditioning

    Joined:
    May 28, 2007
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thx for the tremendous input so far--- it is a real blessing to us. Not sure if this is the right venue or if I should do a thread in another forum - but I'd also like feedback on our choice of projector and receiver (we did a lot of homework to get to those choices but nothing is yet set in stone.)
     
  9. MikeNg

    MikeNg Second Unit

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2004
    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    0
    The right projector is going to be a function of how many seats, seating area, ambient light conditions, and media content being viewed (I assume the latter is 100% widescreen, but some churches do double duty and run 4:3 for Powerpoint, cameras, etc.). Can you comment?

    I'd also would not rule out getting used gear as a way of shaving a few dollars.

    Something not discussed or mentioned are the acoustics of the room. This could greatly affect the quality of WOW you are after. What is the height of the ceiling, and are any of the surfaces acoustically treated? Big rooms tend to have big echoes. Bad for theater!
     
  10. SethH

    SethH Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2003
    Messages:
    2,867
    Likes Received:
    0
    Something that was alluded to in the solutions above, but not directly mentioned, is that you should probably go with 5.1 (or 5.2) instead of 7.1 given your budget and some other considerations.

    Also, you should probably budget for a copy of Avia and an SPL meter to properly calibrate your system. Avia is usually $45-50 and the SPL meter will probably run about $30. Not a big expense, but well worth the price.
     
  11. tnoon

    tnoon Auditioning

    Joined:
    May 28, 2007
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    The room is not ideal for sound- 35 X 48 rectangle, 8 ft acccoustical tile ceiling, sheetrock walls, and a hard surface tile floor.
    5.1 is an option since that saves the center speakers.
    Seating will be at movable tables that can be anywhere from as close as reasonable to about 40 ft away. (last 6 to 8 ft is front walkway area).
    We have complete flex on where to place speakers, except one side wall farthest from the screen has about 20 ft of counters and cabinents and appliances.

    ps main use is 16/9 which is reg format for the projector but will be some 4/3 (powerpoint) useage also.
     
  12. Stephen Hopkins

    Stephen Hopkins HW Reviewer
    HW Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,598
    Likes Received:
    0
    At 40ft a 120" screen is going to be very small... a 200" screen won't be huge but would work. If this is going to be used for PA at all (my churche's hodge-podge system was used extensively for youth worship) then I'd also consider a mixing board.
     
  13. MikeNg

    MikeNg Second Unit

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2004
    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    0
    Unfortunately a 200" diagonal 16:9 screen will not fit vertically on an 8' wall (98" vertical height), so your room is a limiting factor. 120" in 16:9 seems to be a good size when considering the vertical constraint, but is a problem with the intended viewing space.

    IMO I don't think you should consider 40' back as part of your viewing area. Maybe only half of the room should be considered for theater and the rest can be used as a gathering place of sorts. Even at 20' back a 120" screen that drops 12" from the ceiling is going to end 2 feet above the ground. A good amount of the screen will be obscured from view by tables or chairs for the person in the rear. On a horizontal viewing plane the bottom of the screen should be higher than the tops of the viewer's heads so that no one has an interrupted view. That's going to be a virtual impossibility for your intended audience. I don't know if this is the best venue for a 'theater', with the scope you intend.
     
  14. JohnRice

    JohnRice Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2000
    Messages:
    8,813
    Likes Received:
    207
    Real Name:
    John
    Besides, with an 8' ceiling, you need to take into consideration that too big a screen will cause problems with the heads of the people in front blocking the screen for those behind.
     
  15. tnoon

    tnoon Auditioning

    Joined:
    May 28, 2007
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    The 120 inch width on 16/9 ratio has less than 6 ft height- starting near ceiling- would have about 2 ft from floor at bottom-- excellent comments re blocked viewing.

    We have 15 tables and 60 seats that are all moveable- so for a movie we can spread the tables out near the screen (have 35 ft width to work with) and alternate them so line of sight is maximized. Really good point on line of sight though!

    Simple issues arise that we never would have thought of until useage happens.
     
  16. SethH

    SethH Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2003
    Messages:
    2,867
    Likes Received:
    0
    One other thing to consider is that this room is likely not going to be very good at all acoustically. I'm not sure if there's really much room in your budget for acoustical treatments, but with the PA-type systems people are suggesting -- specifically with multiple subs -- could potentially sound pretty bad in a room that size and shape with tile floors and hard walls. Even if you could add large rugs to the floor for movie nights -- but enough rugs to do much good in a room that size would be pretty costly.
     
  17. tnoon

    tnoon Auditioning

    Joined:
    May 28, 2007
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    One idea has been to run wire down the sides and hang curtains that we would run out for movie nights.

    Would the multiple tables, chairs and people help from the floor standpoint?
     
  18. MikeNg

    MikeNg Second Unit

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2004
    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    0
    Curtains are not that great for absorption, mainly because of their irregularity you can't predict how well it will absorb (it's not uniform). Depending on the weight, it may have absorptive and diffusive properties as well. However, good 'theatrical' curtains are WAY expensive and might be prohibitive unless you find it on the cheap at a local fabic shop and can DIY. It would lend a nice aesthetic ambience to the room though, and help control light reflections off the walls (I bet they are WHITE aren't they?!?!!).
     
  19. DaveF

    DaveF Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2001
    Messages:
    17,493
    Likes Received:
    1,382
    Location:
    One Loudoun, Ashburn, VA
    Real Name:
    David Fischer
  20. JohnRice

    JohnRice Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2000
    Messages:
    8,813
    Likes Received:
    207
    Real Name:
    John
    Don't think yourself into too many problems. The room is most likely brighter than it should be, but doing much about it may be impractical. Plus, when it has dozens of people in it, the people themselves will deaden the sound a great deal. When you test it before anyone arrives, it will most likely sound too bright. This isn't a Home Theater and there is no way you can make it one.

    Regarding the SuperBowl thing. I just have to shake my head. Notice it refers to a church which was planning on having hundreds of people attend and they were mixing it with religious messages, even though they were delivered by the two competing coaches. Clearly the NFL only wants certain messages delivered with their product. Drunk and stupid: OK. Relegious messages, even from their own coaches: Not OK.
     

Share This Page