CHRONICLES OF NARNIA (retitled thread) (1 Viewer)

[Edwin-S]

Why? I highly doubt this is going to be the type of umovie that says "You're gonna burn in HELL if you don't believe in Jesus!" or any such exclusionary tactics like that.

Did I say that or even imply it? Atheists avoiding this film has nothing to do with them burning in Hell due to non-belief, since, obviously, Atheists don't even believe in Hell. They will avoid it because they will not care to be subjected to a film that they might (or will) interpret as thinly disguised theist propaganda. If they don't agree with theistic beliefs, why would they take their children to a movie that, by the very nature of the base material, will have to contain references to such beliefs?

 

[Ernest Rister]

You've got to be out of your gourd to think that the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe is Theist propaganda.

The Magician's Nephew? Maybe
The Last Battle? Maybe.

Buit TLW&TW? No way on Earth. You might as well say Disney's The Jungle Book is theist propaganda since it has a lovable animal co-star go down in the line of duty and arise at the end. It is no different. Seriously.

 

[Edwin-S]

You might as well say Disney's The Jungle Book is theist propaganda since it has a lovable animal co-star go down in the line of duty and arise at the end. It is no different. Seriously.

Frankly, I do not agree with your comparison. It has been a long time since I have read the book, but IIRC Aslan's resurrection had the theme of redemption woven into it with regard to Edmund's "sin". I have never remotely gotten any vibe of sin, sacrifice, resurrection, and redemption from Disney's "THE JUNGLE BOOK"; however, all of those elements are clearly evident in C.S Lewis's "THE LION, THE WITCH, AND THE WARDROBE".

Regardless, I still believe that strongly Atheistic people would be disinclined to see TL,TW&TW because of its Christian and Theistic themes and elements

 

[Tony_Ramos]

Hey Edwin,

i think all that the other guys are saying is that it's possible to not be Christian and still enjoy the books, which would really be nice. Seriously, unless this is really overt, ppl probably won't notice

Also, Edwin, just FYI, both Lewis and Tolkien wrote that, in their opinion, all myth are retellings of how the Creator wants us to live. Hence they are popular b/c they speak to the deeper part of us. By that assumption, Ernest's comparison to Jungle Book is correct.

The NYT article asked a great question: if the movie is overtly Christian, then will it hurt Disney's business in other parts of the world, or tarnish their image, etc? I'd say no, judging by the box office of The Passion!

Quick rebuttal on Tolkien: Tolkien himself said that we're all allegories for the Creator ;p And, he said that he's wasn't surprised that his work is so identified as Christian, as being raised one, he couldn't help but be influenced by it. I think most writers are influenced, even unknowingly, by their experiences. But in LOTR's case I think it's pretty overt if you ask the right questions about it.

 

[clayton b]

Hello Brandon,

And that's exactly what I don't like about it, and that's exactly why I am an agnostic. And that's all I'll say on that subject as to go further would probably offend someone's beliefs and violate HTF policy. And about the sex thing, many people believe that because when one of the Pevensie children were asked about Susan, they stated that 'she doesn't believe in Narnia anymore, she spends all her time going to dances with boys' or something along that line. Certainly showing an interest in boys and dancing does not equal sex, but that's where that theory comes from. But you are right, she was denied the privilege to be with her family because she turned her back on Narnia and Aslan. And that's what I hate. She was a good person, she did more for Narnia than many of those that Aslan allowed into his 'heaven' (that enemy soldier for one).

I know this is silly coming from a 30 year old man, but The Last Battle is a pretty bitter pill to swallow at the best of times, seeing so much that is good and beautiful being destroyed. Sure it's all made right, but Susan's exclusion completely cancels it out.

I know that's exactly the point that Lewis was driving at, but that doesn't mean I have to like it or agree with it.

Yes mods, I know I might have said too much. I will say no more on the subject. And I hope I haven't offended anyone.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

If they don't agree with theistic beliefs, why would they take their children to a movie that, by the very nature of the base material, will have to contain references to such beliefs?

For the same reason many Christian families take their children to movies that are entirely secular. Because quite aside from the theist/atheist subtext, they are entertaining and involving stories.

 

[Mike Brogan]

Athiests probably won't go to see this film anyway, so why worry about alienating them.

I don't know, I'm atheist and I plan on seeing it. I would never ignore a movie just because it's "spiritual" or religiious whether that motif be Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Jewish or any other world religion. In fact my DVD collection consists of many films with religious themes (The Matrix, The Apostle, Kundun, Clash of the Titans etc...). Above all I like to be entertained. Most atheist or agnostics I know are open minded, that's kind of what lead them down their respctive paths in the first place.

That being said, you're right, don't worry about alienating me, I can take it.

 

[TheLongshot]

Clayton,

Just to let you know, my wife doesn't like that part of the book either.

The question of whether people show up or not might depend if they realise that the CoN is Christian allegory. As I said, I didn't see it at the time when I was a kid, and I don't know how many people know that about the books.

Question is, will non-Christians take the silly attitude of the Christian fundies of boycotting something that they really don't understand? I tend to think not, since there doesn't seem to be that big reaction. Also, I think that there are a lot of non-Christians who have enjoyed Narnia for being a nice fantasy adventure, and not really paying much attention to the allegory.

Jason

 

[Ernest Rister]

The NYT article asked a great question: if the movie is overtly Christian, then will it hurt Disney's business in other parts of the world, or tarnish their image, etc?

It would take the NYT to be so dense about Disney's body of work -- Christian symbols and references are found in numerous Disney films, almost too numerous to count if one includes the live action films. Speaking just for the animated films, Snow White says a prayer for the dwarfs at her bedside in a mode that is clearly referencing Christianity. Fantasia concludes with the Ave Maria. A whole section of The Three Caballeros is devoted to the traditional re-enactment of Mary and Joseph trying to find shelter in Bethlehem ("No Pasada"). "Trees" and "Johnny Appleseed" in Melody Time feature ample references to Christianity and God. I might be wrong but I think Pongo and Perdita are married outside a Christian church in 101 Dalmatians. Penny prays constantly to God in The Rescuers. Don Bluth directed a short cartoon called The Small One, which was about the donkey that carried Mary and Joseph to Bethlehem.

It was only after Walt's death and the retirement of the 9 Old Men that Chrisitan motifs began to disappear from Disney animation. Only The Hunchback of Notre Dame has heavy Christian symbolism, most of it extremely dark and even frightening. Instead, there are quasi-religious moments, like Mufasa's ghost in The Lion King or the spiritual power of the crystals in Atlantis or the mysticism of Brother Bear, or the spirits of the Ancestors in Mulan, etc.

Why would Disney's image be tarnished by releasing pro-Christian movies? For decades, they did just that and I've never read of people batting an eyelash. It's only been in the late 80's and 90's, as Disney moved away from such core concepts and values, embracing secular profits over the company's traditions, that we began to see a fracture between the Corporate Greed of Eisner and Disney's traditional consumer base. The acquisition of Miramax was a huge mistake, in my opinion, it has caused Disney nothing but trouble.

If the NYT thinks Disney's image would be *tarnished* by making overtly Christian fare, then they simply do not know the company's history.

 

[Ernest Rister]

Oh, yeah -- when I read the Narnia books as a kid, I didn't pick up on any of the Christian allegories, i just thoguht they were ripping good stories. When Aslan takes the dive in TLTW&TW, I didn't see it as Aslan playing Jesus, I just saw it as a fantasy piece of magic. Last time I read the Bible, Jesus wasn't tied to a giant stone table, murdered, and then, after everyone had gone, was resurrected while hundereds of mice swarmed on his body and released his bonds, and then afterwards, he went a'leaping and a'jumping around the countryside with two girls on his back...

It was no different than Baloo or Pinocchio for me.

 

[Tony_Ramos]

Wow, Ernest, thanks for the recap.

You guys are right, not seeing this movie for its allegory would be like not seeing the Matrix Trilogy b/c of the Christian and Hindu references to martyrdom & salvation, which were JUST as intentional!!!

 

[SarahG]

FYI - the site actually now just went live. They have all sorts of stuff up there about the film, inlcuding a new clip on sets and locations and tons of background information on costumes and what not. I also read that Brian Cox is no longer voicing Aslan cause he lost weight and his voice changed. No word on who it is yet...but thats intersting IMO

 

[James_Kiang]

Did anyone catch the premiere of the trailer during ABC's broadcast of Chamber of Secrets? I've only seen it once, but I have to say that my first impression was very positive.

It's been so long since I've read the book or seen the animated movie that I don't recall many of the details. I am definitely looking forward to December 9. The last rumor I heard was that, box-office depending, Disney wants to do at least 4 of the books as movies.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Moviefone has the exclusive full version up in 640i right now: http://movies.channel.aol.com/franch...er_extra_large

I was really worried when I heard the "Shrek" guy would be doing this. But the full-length version of the trailer shows this movie to be almost the anti-"Shrek". It's plenty of shots that take their time, really giving the moment space. No topical, soon-to-be-dated humor. Some flourishes that remind me of the BBC production on a much greater scale. I'm hopeful. This is surprisingly ambitious for Disney.

And the shot of the children bowing before what I can only assume is Aslan gives me considerable hope that they're taking on the Christian allegory head-on.

 

[Adam_S]

That trailer gave me goosebumps and chills. I was literally getting quite emotional as Lucy approaces the Wardrobe and then seeing the lamppost and them looking out on the wintery Narnia... I'm terribly excited for this film!

 

[Jason Kirkpatri]

Too....many.....goosebumps!

 

[John Doran]

wow.

just.....wow.

 

[clayton b]

Considering both Shrek and Shrek 2 had nearly as many fart jokes in them as Jay and Silent Bob Strike back I was kinda worried when I heard that Adamson was directing these films. But I think that seeing that trailer has alleviated much of my concerns. My only problem is that Aslan looks a little too cgi-ish for my liking.

Great freaking trailer by the way.

 

[Kevin Grey]

Any word on who is doing the score for this one?

 

[Artur Meinild]

Harry Gregson-Williams is doing the score. He scored both Shrek 1 and 2 and Kingdom of Heaven... His style is a bit like Zimmer's, considering he has worked with Zimmer on many projects including Broken Arrow, The Rock, The Prince of Egypt etc...