Building a system with Forte IV and PRO-180RPC LCR for both Home Theater and Music (1 Viewer)

[IvanLionel]

Hello, I'm planning for building a system for both home theater and music. To have better sound for music without influencing the home decor too much, here is my current plan for a 5.1.2 system:

Left and Right: Klipsch Forte IV
Center: PRO-180RPC LCR
Rears: Not selected yet
Atmos: Not selected yet
Subwoofer: Not selected yet
AVR: Marantz SR7015

And here are the questions I want to get your opinions on:
1. I know PRO-180RPC LCR should be paired together as LCR, just wondering if anyone knows would it perform well with Forte IV? Since the L&R would be floor standing, would PRO-180RPC LCR sounds weird since it's in the ceiling?
2. For the rear speakers, I used to think about Pro-180RPC LCR as well. But I'm not sure if 45 degrees would be too much for my space? Would Klipsch CDT-5800-C or regular PRO-180RPC perform better?
3. For the Atmos, it's kind of similar, the 45 degrees may be too much for the atmos speakers, would Klipsch CDT-5800-C or regular PRO-180RPC perform better?
4. As for the sub, I'm thinking about GoldenEar SuperSub X, but if the in-wall or in-ceiling speaker like PRO-1000SW or PRO-800SW could perform similarly, I may prefer the in-wall or in-ceiling solution. Any suggestions?
5. For the AVR, I think all the speakers I'm looking at have high sensitivity, I think SR 7015 would definitely be enough for HT. But for the music, would it be worth having an amp for the Forte IV to get better sound? or just upgrade the AVR to Denon 6700h?

I really appreciate your help in advance!
I also attached my floor plan with the location of the speakers I'm thinking of now.

 

[JohnRice]

One quick, emphatic answer. Do NOT, NOT, NOT use an in-ceiling speaker for the center. The surrounds should also not be in the ceiling, though the Atmos ones should.

The best thing to do for the center is one of the larger Klipsch center speakers.

 

[IvanLionel]

One quick, emphatic answer. Do NOT, NOT, NOT use an in-ceiling speaker for the center. The surrounds should also not be in the ceiling, though the Atmos ones should.

The best thing to do for the center is one of the larger Klipsch center speakers.

Hi John, Thanks for your reply! I used to think the same, but I saw PRO-180RPC LCR is designed to be used as LCR since they have a 45 degrees angle. I'm wondering do you think it still wouldn't perform well as a center?

 

[JohnRice]

Hi John, Thanks for your reply! I used to think the same, but I saw PRO-180RPC LCR is designed to be used as LCR since they have a 45 degrees angle. I'm wondering do you think it still wouldn't perform well as a center?

It simply doesn't matter. The sound from the center channel will be coming from overhead while the L&R will be in front of you. People certainly do things like this,but I certainly wouldn't.

 

[JohnRice]

Something I want to add. There seems to be a common belief that it doesn't matter what direction the sound is coming from, as long as it's aimed at the viewer. I don't know why people believe this, but it's incredibly important where sound comes from. The L&R speakers are in front of you. If dialog comes from the ceiling and all other front sounds come from directly ahead, that's not going to produce a good result. "Can" you do it? Sure. Will it work? Well, yeah, it will produce sound, but the front soundstage is supposed to be left to right not left, up to the center, then back down to the right.

It's really pretty simple. L/C/R in the front, usually flanking the screen (or behind it with some projection systems), side surrounds to the side of the viewer and rear surrounds behind the viewer. If it's not an Atmos setup, the surrounds should be a couple feet above ear level. With an Atmos setup, they should be at ear level. Then Atmos speakers should be overhead (not just high on the walls, but in or on the ceiling, spaced about the same width as the L&R) about 30-40 degrees in front and behind the viewer. You can't always do exactly that, but that's the optimum.

Those Fortés don't come cheap. Don't sacrifice their performance. BTW, I owned the original Forté, which I bought in probably 1988.

 

[DFurr]

Something I want to add. There seems to be a common belief that it doesn't matter what direction the sound is coming from, as long as it's aimed at the viewer. I don't know why people believe this, but it's incredibly important where sound comes from. The L&R speakers are in front of you. If dialog comes from the ceiling and all other front sounds come from directly ahead, that's not going to produce a good result. "Can" you do it? Sure. Will it work? Well, yeah, it will produce sound, but the front soundstage is supposed to be left to right not left, up to the center, then back down to the right.

Well said John. Spot on.

 

[IvanLionel]

Those Fortés don't come cheap. Don't sacrifice their performance. BTW, I owned the original Forté, which I bought in probably 1988.

Wow, that's amazing!

Something I want to add. There seems to be a common belief that it doesn't matter what direction the sound is coming from, as long as it's aimed at the viewer. I don't know why people believe this, but it's incredibly important where sound comes from. The L&R speakers are in front of you. If dialog comes from the ceiling and all other front sounds come from directly ahead, that's not going to produce a good result. "Can" you do it? Sure. Will it work? Well, yeah, it will produce sound, but the front soundstage is supposed to be left to right not left, up to the center, then back down to the right.

It's really pretty simple. L/C/R in the front, usually flanking the screen (or behind it with some projection systems), side surrounds to the side of the viewer and rear surrounds behind the viewer. If it's not an Atmos setup, the surrounds should be a couple feet above ear level. With an Atmos setup, they should be at ear level. Then Atmos speakers should be overhead (not just high on the walls, but in or on the ceiling, spaced about the same width as the L&R) about 30-40 degrees in front and behind the viewer. You can't always do exactly that, but that's the optimum.

I really appreciate it! With all the suggestions you gave, I would get rid of the in-ceiling center and rear. Then for the center, would the classic center be much better than the in-wall ones(if I put an in-wall under the TV)? Do you have any suggestions on the rear and center to pair with the Fortés? Just want to say thank you again for your help!

 

[IvanLionel]

EDIT
Thanks for all the feedback! I would forget the in-ceiling center and rears. I would appreciate it if anyone can give me suggestions on:
1. Any recommendations on the center and rear speakers which would well pair with the Fortes?
2. If this is the case, would it be worth it for me to upgrade to a 5.1.4 system?
3. For the sub, would the in-ceiling or in-wall sub perform well?

 

[IvanLionel]

UPDATE
This is the 5.1.2 system I'm thinking of, any feedback would be appreciated!

Center: RC-64III
L/R: Forte IV
Rears: RP-502S
Atmos: PRO-180RPC-LCR
Sub: SVS SB16-ultra
Receiver: Denon 6700H

 

[JohnRice]

UPDATE
This is the 5.1.2 system I'm thinking of, any feedback would be appreciated!

Center: RC-64III
L/R: Forte IV
Rears: RP-502S
Atmos: PRO-180RPC-LCR
Sub: SVS SB16-ultra
Receiver: Denon 6700H

That center speaker should certainly do the trick. For the surrounds, since they need to go so close to the back wall, I'd probably use a regular bookshelf speaker instead of the di/bipole type. You could do either 2 or 4 Atmos speakers. If you go with 2, do the forward ones out in the room.

You won't be disappointed with the SB-16. Where would you put it?

Also, be certain to leave some room behind the Fortés, so the passive radiators have somewhere to go.

 

[IvanLionel]

That center speaker should certainly do the trick. For the surrounds, since they need to go so close to the back wall, I'd probably use a regular bookshelf speaker instead of the di/bipole type. You could do either 2 or 4 Atmos speakers. If you go with 2, do the forward ones out in the room.

You won't be disappointed with the SB-16. Where would you put it?

Also, be certain to leave some room behind the Fortés, so the passive radiators have somewhere to go.

Thanks, John!
I would like to do 2 atmos speakers and would definitely give fortes some space behind.
Here is the layout I'm thinking now, do you think putting the sub at the corner as the left rear would be a good idea?

 

[JohnRice]

Thanks, John!
I would like to do 2 atmos speakers and would definitely give fortes some space behind.
Here is the layout I'm thinking now, do you think putting the sub at the corner as the left rear would be a good idea?

View attachment 113906

Can you put the sub to the right of the left front speaker, under that shelf? It's only a little over 20" tall.

 

[IvanLionel]

Can you put the sub to the right of the left front speaker, under that shelf? It's only a little over 20" tall.

I think it's hard, the space there is only 14" in height

 

[JohnRice]

I think it's hard, the space there is only 14" in height

The problem with that location for the sub is it will be impossible to get even distribution of bass in the viewing area. Anyone who sit on the left side will be right next to the sub and and anyone on the right will be several times as far away. One will be blown away with bass and/or the other will barely feel it. A solution would be to move the sofa a bit to the left and have dual subs, one on each side of the sofa. Then, no matter where you sat in the main sitting area, you'd be balanced by the dual subs. There's another possible benefit, that people in the main part of the sofa would get the greatest impact of the subs, but the rest of the room wouldn't get nearly as much bass energy. In the case of this option, an SB-16 would really be overkill, not to mention rather expensive. Dual SB-3000s or SB-4000s should be plenty. Two SB-3000s are the same price as a single SB-16.

Keep in mind that SVS prices are going up on 10/4. That virtually never happens with them, but the global situations simply dictate it.

 

[IvanLionel]

The problem with that location for the sub is it will be impossible to get even distribution of bass in the viewing area. Anyone who sit on the left side will be right next to the sub and and anyone on the right will be several times as far away. One will be blown away with bass and/or the other will barely feel it. A solution would be to move the sofa a bit to the left and have dual subs, one on each side of the sofa. Then, no matter where you sat in the main sitting area, you'd be balanced by the dual subs. There's another possible benefit, that people in the main part of the sofa would get the greatest impact of the subs, but the rest of the room wouldn't get nearly as much bass energy. In the case of this option, an SB-16 would really be overkill, not to mention rather expensive. Dual SB-3000s or SB-4000s should be plenty. Two SB-3000s are the same price as a single SB-16.

Keep in mind that SVS prices are going up on 10/4. That virtually never happens with them, but the global situations simply dictate it.

I'm definitely considering having dual subs.
And I'm also wondering how would you recommend PB-3000 or SB-3000? My use case is like 60-40, movie-music.
Thanks!