Buffy Season 3 problems ? (1 Viewer)

[Ken_McAlinden]

If 100% of the broadcast audience will be seeing it at 4:3, which was close to the case for season two in the US, how would you have shot the show? Anyway, my point is that the important consideration is not how they wanted to shoot it, but how they actually ended up shooting it, which I don't think we know at this point.

Regards,

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Matt- Most stores will accept same-title exchanges

Ken- You're not getting me here, the network is not ordering them to do ANYTHING other than to make sure it's watchable in both formats. Since there is a 0$ cost difference between the 2 they don't care, hence the technicolor analogy not being applicable.

 

[Matt Naglieri]

Matt- Most stores will accept same-title exchanges

Thanks Jeff,

I do know that however I live in an area of NJ where there are no major stores. I don't have a car to get around and I've got three kids which monopolize mostly all of my time so my options are extremely limited.

The nearest retail store is about a two hour bus or train ride away so I'm stuck either ordering online or buying from a small local store if they get anything in which is very rarely.

 

[Robert Ringwald]

Yeah, but Joss figured the show would probably come to DVD (when Angel Season 2 was starting, Buffy season 1 was first going into production,**but then pushed back**, and I think he knew Angel would probably follow)

 

[Jeff Kleist]

I don't think DVD ever really entered Joss' mind. He makes his shows how he wants them made

 

[Ken_McAlinden]

You're not getting me here, the network is not ordering them to do ANYTHING other than to make sure it's watchable in both formats. Since there is a 0$ cost difference between the 2 they don't care, hence the technicolor analogy not being applicable.

Trust me. I get you. You just said that the network is ordering them to make sure it's watchable in both formats. That compromise is why my analogy is apt. This does not allow them to compose exclusively for 16:9. They also understand that almost everyone who sees it in the US will see it 4:3, again because of a network requirement.

They are presumably composing for 4:3 in the center of a 16:9 frame. Since the 4:3 ratio is the more restrictive one in that arrangement, it is the one for which they must deliberately compose. Beginning with season three, they no longer had this restriction and there is no doubt that 16:9 is the most appropriate aspect ratio.

Unless you are saying that the 4:3 for season two is not a center extraction of a 16:9 image...

Regards,

 

[Matt Naglieri]

Well I'm going to try and get this thread back to it's original intent.

What is it going to take to let fox know there is a problem provided they aren't aware of it?

In my opinion this is no different then the issues with universal's back to the future and fox's x-files sets and both of those have replacements being offered.

I know most people don't care but the bottom line is it still wrong and whomever wants a corrected version should be given the opportunity to get it.

 

[Ken Stuart]

With Buffy, this is 4:3

Things can change. IIRC, "Hush" was broadcast with "black bars" and "Once More with Feeling" definitely was.
As far as the "no one can compose for both at the same time", it seems to me that some people have narrow minds (pun intended).
For example, suppose the rock band "Smelly Skunks" put out a new album. They have 90 minutes of material. They listen to all of it and put out a CD with 60 minutes, knowing full well that they are going to release a "limited edition" later with "bonus tracks" that is 75 minutes long.
In movies, a real example is Lord of the Rings, where they are putting out 3 hour movies because it they run any longer, then theater owner's revenue goes down because they have one less showing per day. Then they are releasing "Theatrical Versions" and "Extended Versions" on DVD. Thousands of HTF readers are passionate that the Theatrical version is the movie and anything they didn't see in their theater is just extras. So, you have a direct conflict between "original" and "intended" as principles.
Similarly, a number of TV shows are shown simultaneously in 4x3 and 16x9, ie at the same moment. Most of the HBO and Showtime original dramas are shown that way. A director who is even slightly more advanced than the OAR-cultists undoubtedly puts everything essential in the 4x3 frame, and then the 16x9 frame includes "bonus" or "extra" material - just like the bonus tracks on the CD or the extra material in the Extended Editions. Since both the 4x3 frame and the 16x9 are shot and shown at the same time, neither is "original" and both are "intended".
I'm definitely against pan-and-scan versions of widescreen films, but not everything in the world is always quite that black-and-white...
PS Concerning the original purpose of this thread, I've noticed that the Buffy Season Three DVD holders all have a lump where the plastic is injected. These DVD holders usually have that, but it is normally virtually flat with the rest of the plastic. In the Season Three case, the holders are all injected with too much plastic, and there are these lumps. I've checked two sets, all have these lumps, and all the disks have little ring-shaped marks from where they contact these lumps. It is likely that the lumps also cause the disks to pop out of the holders in shipping.

 

[Matt Naglieri]

"Hush" was broadcast with "black bars" and "Once More with Feeling" definitely was.

Hush was never shown in widescreen in the US. The only episode to be shown wide was Once more with Felling

 

[Dan Rudolph]

And from what Joss has said, I believe that Once more with Feeling is the only ep that's supposed to be shown wide.

 

[Geoff_D]

Yes, it's OT, but having finished the widescreen Angel S2 box set I feel I need to chip in one last time. Although I've spotted more errors due to the framing (a rogue finger at the edge of the frame in one brief shot and a single shot in 4x3) it seems as if they were experimenting more with the 16x9 frame in the latter half of the season. I say this because there are a number of shots that use the whole 16x9 image, with many characters drifting in and out of the 4x3 'safe' area.

There is an odd thing that happens to some of the effects shots, though, which may be a side effect of the edited on video process. Some effects (like a full moon added to a shot) look squashed when viewed in 16:9, but I forced my tv to 4x3 and the 'moon' took on it's proper dimensions, yet other effects are perfectly proportioned. Still, this'll be sorted out on subsequent seasons on dvd. Only a few weeks until Angel S3 hits R2...

 

[Blu]

WOOHOOOOO!!!!
I went to my local Wal-Mart today and after not having any S3s since I took mine back (and went through several sets with the manager trying to find a set that wasn't scratched) they had 2 sets!!!!

I inspected and shook both sets and heard/felt one disc lose in one set and the other sounded as if it was solid.

After thinking it over a while I decided to take a chance on the solid set and it paid off!!!

Not a loose disc in the set!!!

whew!

 

[Will_B]

On a somewhat different note, does anyone else find Buffy in general, and season 3 in particular, almost insufferably dark (picture-wise)?

Yes. I'm watching on a Sony E540 computer monitor, which is one of the brightest you can get, and season three is set so dark it obliterates a lot of the detail. Only solution is to up the brightness and accept grey for black.

 

[Dan Rudolph]

New problem:

On my Xbox I can't get into the menu for "The Prom." It works fine on other players. Is it my disc or all they all like this?

 

[Jeff Kleist]

I'm definitely against pan-and-scan versions of widescreen films, but not everything in the world is always quite that black-and-white...

Yes it is. It has been stated by Joss in multiple interviews and other venues that the 4:3 frame is HIS PREFERRED FRAMING FOR BUFFY
Therefore, 4:3 is OAR, indisputeable

 

[Jeff Swearingen]

I just replaced my DVD player and got Buffy S3 with it. The video seems real jumpy at some points in the first two episodes, especially with a lot of movement. Is this a problem with the DVD authoring or do I have a defective player (I haven't had a chance to try it on anything else but the machine is a Sony DVP-NS725P)

 

[Robert Ringwald]

could be, those 2 episodes also feature the season 2 theme song...despite the fact that it was altered for the season 3 premiere.

maybe the video source fox used for the prints was off or something...

 

[Jeff Swearingen]

I could really care less about the third season theme argument. Same with the WS/FS debate. I just need to see if I have to return this DVD player.

The video problems are consistently happening for me with all episodes. Is there anyone who can point out a resource I can go to about this flagging issue so I can understand if this is my problem or not.

 

[Britton]

I remember that the episodes looked fine on my Panasonic RP-82, but when I took them over to my friend's apartment and watched them on his Xbox, a lot of the video looked extremely "jumpy." The same video problem also shows up on Season 2. It sounds like a flagging issue to me, but I don't know where to direct you for more information.

 

[Marc_Sulinski]

I believe that the Buffy sets are incorrectly flagged as film when it is actually video. My understanding is that the problems should only be noticeable on a progressive-scan player, and that some DVD players can detect the incorrect flags and work around them. If your player is progressive scan, try turning the progressive mode off and see what happends. Keep in mind that there is a strong possibility that I have no idea what I am talking about.