Babylon 5: Should I invest my money and time? ANSWER IN POST #500 (1 Viewer)

[nolesrule]

See? Even the guy who didn't particularly like the show understood that an overall story arc exists and the importance of not skipping episodes.

Although I disagree with the "boring" comment, but that's not relevant.

 

[nolesrule]

I always liked this quote from JMS (trimmed to remove spoilers) which ironically is posted on the Lurker's Guide page for an episode that David skipped:

 

[PhilipG]

No, that's what most of B5 is. Actually, to be more kind, it's really what I like to call "Comic Book TV" - if you can watch it with that frame of mind you should enjoy it.

 

[nolesrule]

The episodes I listed earlier are the ones that majorly advance the overall story. There are only 6 of them in that list but just about every other episode does have at the minimum a tidbit of foreshadowing or advancement of the overall story.

What's the point of watching if you are going to skip the setup? PhilipG, your list is missing Babylon Squared (among other important episodes). That right there is enough for me to warn anyone who is thinking of watching the show to take your opinion with a grain of salt. Why learn through exposition later (when the chance of understanding the exposition is much less) when you can see it for yourself and make your own observations and conclusions.

Just because the scroll at the beginning of Empire Strikes Back says that the Death Star was destroyed in the previous movie doesn't mean you should skip watching Star Wars (Ep IV) first anyway.

 

[david_hu]

After seeing Season 2, disc 1, I pretty well thought I got the gist of what must have happened in season 1.
Now I reckon I should go straight to season 3 disc 1, then season 4 disc 1 etc. and so on.
Seriously though, maybe I'll watch the important season one eps listed and skip all the filler.
I've seen so much scifi TV that I now want it on speed dial.
It was funny, though , how all the Bab fans seemed outraged by my transgression.

 

[PhilipG]

You're comparing season one to A New Hope? Ha-ha. You want to use the same argument with Lucas's prequels (events referred to in Episode IV)?

 

[Kenneth]

since that character leaves the show before the final season and thus doesn't get the progression opportunities that should have been available in the last season. Also, the three questions are at the heart of the hero stories and, just as in B5, the path one chooses with respect to those questions can affect one's overall destiny.

That said, I don't think any show is going to be everyone's cup of tea. Finding new plot lines in the Sci Fi genre is somewhat difficult due to our own limitations. We tend to think in terms defined by our own frames of reference. Thus ideas that deviate too far from the accepted FoR's are difficult for a wide audience to understand. In contrast there are others who only want to experience the road not taken and find stories built on archetypes less fullfilling. I think B5 did a good job of coming at some classic plot lines from new and innovative angles, however, others might have a different perspective.

Cheers,

Kenneth

 

[MatthewLouwrens]

Personally, I liked Babylon Squared, and thought it was a good episode.

But nevertheless it doesn't matter whether the information is necessary. Perhaps it isn't. Perhaps it is all repeated.

But part of what JMS does is set up questions to be answered later. Look at the mystery around B4:
* In The Gathering, we learn about B4 and its mysterious disappearance.
* In Babylon Squared in season 1, we find out part of what happened to B4 - but it establishes more questions than it answers.
* In War Without End in season 3, we find out fully what happened, and the questions are answered.

To say nothing of the fact that by almost entirely skipping season 1, you don't really get any knowledge of Sinclair, so his appearance in WWE is meaningless - just another convenient character bought in to resolve an issue that the viewer doesn't even know existed.

It's like only reading the last chapter of a detective novel, because the detective has to sum up the important parts of the rest of the book anyway. Why the hell bother?

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

I think I'm going to "speed dial" 24. I'll just watch the first and last episode of each season. I'm not going to really miss anything, am I?

Regards,

Joe

 

[nolesrule]

You're still wasting your time doing this. The WHAM episodes only advance the major story arcs, which is why I brought them up specifically. But the other episodes still have parts that impact the story arc, still have character development and progression and some of them are damn fine stories (that last part is in my opinion).

Babylon 5 is a 110-chapter novel for the TV screen using the traditional dramatic structure and classic mystery structure. Some chapters advance the story more than others, some are better than others quality-wise, but they all are relevant in one way or another (it's hard to give an example without spoilers). You cannot form an accurate, educated opinion on the work as a whole if you do not review it in its entirety. This is true of any dramatic work.

I'm not saying everyone will like the show, I'm just saying give it a truly fair chance. You are just shortchanging yourself and wasting your own time by skipping episodes and not giving the show itself a fair chance.

 

[Simon Massey]

Maybe you should look at it as fans trying to help you out and make sure you dont waste your time. I dont really think anyone is outraged by it. The best thing about Babylon 5 is the story and how it actually unfolds and how the characters develop. Your comment about the woman in the cocoon highlight just how pointless it is missing previous episodes.

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

Exactly. We may pity him, and think his actions foolish, but we don't dislike him and what he's done certainly doesn't make anyone angry, because nobody else is being hurt by it, only he is.

Regarding how "bad" season 1 is:

Everyone coming to the show for the first time should realize that any one person's opinion is just that - one person's opinion. An opinion you might not agree with. I know people who vastly prefer S1 to S2 because they prefer Sinclair to Sheridan. Many episodes that some people hold out as representing the worst of the series are the very ones that other fans point to as being special favorites. ("Believers" is one that falls into this category. I know people who hate this episodes with a passion.) Tastes differ. The problem with simply skipping a season or only watching a handful of episodes based on somebody else's idiosyncratic personal taste is that you'll never know what you would or would not have liked. And if you go back and watch S1 you'll find some of the mysteries much less interesting than they would have been otherwise because you already know the answer.

I would be hard-pressed to invent a worse way to watch the show. The notion that it is somehow a waste of time to watch the early episodes is silly - doubly so when it is reached by someone who has no idea what he's missing.

Because opinions vary so widely on the episodes and the seasons, I think the most useful thing to look at is the consensus view of fandom at large over the past 10 years. And there is such a consensus. The interesting thing is that if you look at the episodes that are almost universally considered "bad" ("bad" in this case meaning "sub-standard for Babylon 5") you'll find three things: 1) There are very few of them. In the entire five year 110 episode run I think there may be 6 or 7 episodes that a clear majority of fans would point to as very weak. 2) All of them, without exception, have worthwhile elements, sometimes very worthwhile ones. (One of the most widely-panned episodes in S3 has a very shaky "A" story, but the "B" story is not only excellent in and of itself, it sets up an alliance that proves vital in S4.) 3) JMS himself will be one of the people piling on - and they are pretty much all scripts he wrote himself.

And don't forget what "bad" means in this context: "Routine", "standard", "I've seen this before". "Infection" could have shot for any of the Trek shows if you changed the names and a few details. It wouldn't have made a horrible Trek episode, just an unexceptional one. That's why it is such a bad B5 episode. B5 raised the bar. (Trek at its best produced great SF television. But the signal to noise ratio on every Trek show was a lot worse than on B5. There was a lower percentage of really good episodes in all the Trek shows and much higher proportions of both "ho-hum" installments and absolute dogs.) "TKO" was a standard "fish-out-of-water" and "Rocky" style sports story. But the "B" story did a lot to humanize Susan Ivanova and deepened her character. I'll put up with a standard bounce on a boxing movie to advance the development of a major character. Similarly "Infection" went beyond its cliche "ancient weapon" story and its preachy "there is no master race" message to introduce the shady Interplanetary Expeditions and have Earth's Bio-Weapons divison show up to take possession of all the evil scientist's data. (This would be like Starfleet intelligence showing up at the end of "The Doomsday Machine" to sieze all of the records of the incident from the Enterprise computers, swear eveyone to secrecy and then go off to try to duplicate the thing themselves.)

Look, are there episodes I skip over when re-watching the show? Sure. Are there others where I fast-forward through sections that are less interesting to me? You betcha. But I know what I'm doing because I've already watched every minute of every episode. The point is, you'll never know what is "filler" to you until you've watched it all at least once.

Regards,

Joe

 

[Patrick Sun]

*cough*troll*cough*

 

[Andrew Beacom]

I haven't read all of this thread but I read enough to start borrowing B5 discs from my mates. I've just finished S2 and the show is excellent. S2 really kicks on after the slow starting S1. My only problem now is that my wife gets back from college this weekend and I still have 3 seasons to watch.

 

[DaveF]

Despite friends telling me B5 was good, I've shunned it. I saw bits of a few episodes and it was like watching a high-school theater production: poor writing and melodramatic acting. A few minutes convinced me to avoid the show.

Now, years later and a bit wiser, I understand that a great series can be betrayed by the wrong few minutes, especially out of context.

So, I should go finally give B5 a try. Besides, with Buffy long gone, I need something to make life worth living.

Is B5 typically available at rental chains? Or is it often available used for good prices?

 

[Qui-Gon John]

I think you could do it using an online rental, like Blockbuster. I am viewing the early seasons of Stargate via Blockbuster online.

 

[KyleC]

You couldn't be more right. I shunned both B5 and Farscape in their original runs and wrote them off. I'm so glad that I decided later to watch them, Farscape especially. B5 has some of the best storytelling of any sci-fi show, IMO.

 

[DaveGTP]

It's funny, I felt the same way about Buffy until my wife got me to watch it with her (she also felt the same way about it, but too many people recommended it to not give it a try).

The few minutes of Buffy I'd seen here and there I was kind of the same way. Once I gave it a chance it was pretty good - we're on Season 6 now (not much praise for that first season though, ick). It's no B5, but there is some arc based storytelling and plenty of character-driven story. And Angel is actually REALLY good.

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

Ah, how many of us who are die-hard fans today said the same thing, once upon a time? The real key to B5 is to watch a string of episodes in order, 4 or 5 at least. Nothing else will give you a sense of the characters, the scope of the story or the very carefully-crafted universe. After actively avoiding the series (which I dismissed as a poor man's Trek) I finally watched some reruns from season one for several straight weeks - mostly to appease a friend of mine (and, frankly, to shut him up.) After a few episodes, I was hooked, and I've been a fan ever since.

Regards,

Joe

 

[PhilipG]

Strangely enough, I was a fan of B5 from the very beginning. Loved the pilot. Loved the first season when it first aired, while my friends hated it. Then, as later seasons aired, my friends got into much more, and, conversely, I became more disenchanted. These days, I can be very critical about the series, but there's still a lot I love about it too. Just call me Mr Ambivalent.