AV Receiver advice (1 Viewer)

[marter]

I’m at a minor crossroads in my modest home theater build out. I’m reusing my speakers and sub from a previous setup (circa 2000) and have purchased a Denon AVR-S750H which is still within the return window. I’d like some advice before that window closes since while it has the features I want, I’m wondering is the S750H has enough power.

My room (basement office) is a 14’ x 19’ space, and my seat is 9’ from my LG 65NANO90UNA. My speakers are NHT SuperZero bookshelves and SuperCenter in a 5.1 config. The SuperZeros are 85-25Khz and 86dB, 8 ohms, and rated at 15-100w. My sub is an SVS 25-31PCi. Due to traffic and room configuration, my surrounds are ceiling mounted (7’ floor to tweeter) slightly behind me and angled down towards my position.

My usage is 70% movies and TV, and 30% music. I’m not a gamer and don’t foresee an 8K game box. I just purchased a 4K Nano and really don’t see moving to 8K screen. I don’t play movies at theater levels but like to feel the sound as well as hear it. While I realize it’s relative, I typically listen to a movie or show at -10dB on the Denon.

I realize that power does not equal volume, but I wonder if I’m under powered for the SuperZeros. I’ve looked hard at the Elac Debut 2.0 6 series but not convinced it would be enough difference, but that still might happen at some point. Either way, is the S750H enough?

I’ve been considering the returning the S750H and going with the X3700H, but the HDMI 2.1 bug has me questioning the wisdom of that. Since I’m not planning on 8K, I would assume the X3600H would be a wiser choice. Or should I consider the X4600H? On either one, the pre-outs would be a nice option for a future path. Opinions or advice, as well as other options to consider would be appreciated.

Secondary questions, if I went with the Elacs would I benefit from the difference? And should I consider Debut Atmos enabled add-ons, particularly in view of the position of my surrounds mounted above me?

Thanks in advance.

 

[JohnRice]

I would say that if you can get a good closeout on the X3600H, then go for it. It's a much better receiver than the 750, plus the pre-outs give you flexibility for the future, especially if you're already considering an external amp.

The Super Zeros are very nice, for what they are, but the Debut v2 will be a significant improvement, especially with music, but their superior imaging will also be a real boost for surround sound. They're just exceptional speaker for the price.

You have a nice sub, so I suspect that is the last thing you'd need to upgrade.

Be certain not to set the crossover (the low frequency setting of the speakers) too low. 120Hz or even higher with the Super Zeros, and 120Hz works very well with the Debuts and a good sub.

 

[marter]

I would say that if you can get a good closeout on the X3600H, then go for it. It's a much better receiver than the 750, plus the pre-outs give you flexibility for the future, especially if you're already considering an external amp.

The Super Zeros are very nice, for what they are, but the Debut v2 will be a significant improvement, especially with music, but their superior imaging will also be a real boost for surround sound. They're just exceptional speaker for the price.

You have a nice sub, so I suspect that is the last thing you'd need to upgrade.

Thanks @JohnRice I appreciate your input. Looks like the only option for the X3600H is a refurb on A4L but it seems like a good move.

Any opinion on the Atmos add-ons in view of my surround placement?

 

[JohnRice]

Thanks @JohnRice I appreciate your input. Looks like the only option for the X3600H is a refurb on A4L but it seems like a good move.

Any opinion on the Atmos add-ons in view of my surround placement?

The pandemic seems to have obliterated all the good closeout and refurb deals. I'd been hoping for something better myself, but nothing has materialized. Looking around I see nothing in the x600 series at all. I do see new X4500Hs available from ListenUp (a reputable, long standing retailer in Colorado) for $1,200 on Amazon.

Looking at ListenUp, they have some nice deals. X3600H new for $1K, but if you want a great deal on a more premium piece, hands down the one to look at is the Marantz SR7013 for $1,400.

 

[marter]

The pandemic seems to have obliterated all the good closeout and refurb deals. I'd been hoping for something better myself, but nothing has materialized. Looking around I see nothing in the x600 series at all. I do see new X4500Hs available from ListenUp (a reputable, long standing retailer in Colorado) for $1,200 on Amazon.

Looking at ListenUp, they have some nice deals. X3600H new for $1K, but if you want a great deal on a more premium piece, hands down the one to look at is the Marantz SR7013 for $1,400.

Thanks. The Marantz is that much better?

 

[JohnRice]

Thanks. The Marantz is that much better?

Marantz is the same company (D&M Holdings) as Denon. Same tech and things like Audyssey. It's basically Denon Premium. It's just worth considering. $800 off a new $2,200 receiver doesn't come along every day.

 

[marter]

Marantz is the same company (D&M Holdings) as Denon. Same tech and things like Audyssey. It's basically Denon Premium. It's just worth considering. $800 off a new $2,200 receiver doesn't come along every day.

So this raises an interesting idea...if I went with the X3600H and added a 2 channel amp, how would that compare with the SR7013? Would this give me a better (I realize that's a subjective word) 2-channel stereo for music? Would the Emotiva BasX A-300 be a suitable companion to the 3600? That would put me at the same price point.

How would you compare the two solutions? I guess I'm asking what makes the Marantz a "premium Denon"?

 

[JohnRice]

So this raises an interesting idea...if I went with the X3600H and added a 2 channel amp, how would that compare with the SR7013? Would this give me a better (I realize that's a subjective word) 2-channel stereo for music? Would the Emotiva BasX A-300 be a suitable companion to the 3600? That would put me at the same price point.

How would you compare the two solutions? I guess I'm asking what makes the Marantz a "premium Denon"?

You make a valid point. The two options are the same price. Considering what you've said, the new X3600H/A-300 combination is probably a better value. Also, with the new X3600H being only $100 more than the refurb, personally I'd go for the new one, but you'll have to decide how important that $100 is.

 

[marter]

You make a valid point. The two options are the same price. Considering what you've said, the new X3600H/A-300 combination is probably a better value. Also, with the new X3600H being only $100 more than the refurb, personally I'd go for the new one, but you'll have to decide how important that $100 is.

Brand new with 3 year warranty vs. refurb with 1 year warranty, that's easily worth $100. No brainer.

Thanks for the input. This should be a nice upgrade, and then add the Elac Debut's when the price comes back down.

So what's your opinion on the Elac Atmos add-ons, particularly in view of my rear surrounds at 7' and angled down?

 

[JohnRice]

I actually have a pair of the ELAC Debut reflecting Atmos speakers in one system. The effect is pretty minimal with that approach, and that room has a fairly low ceiling. I'd say that type of speaker is a last ditch effort if in/on-ceiling speakers aren't possible.

 

[marter]

I actually have a pair of the ELAC Debut reflecting Atmos speakers in one system. The effect is pretty minimal with that approach, and that room has a fairly low ceiling. I'd say that type of speaker is a last ditch effort if in/on-ceiling speakers aren't possible.

Understood. Maybe you can give me some advice on the best options for placement of the 5.1 speakers and then I'll have a better idea how to move to Atmos at some point. My ceiling joists run front to back (perpendicular to my viewing direction) so I could get some wires fished through there with some drywall repair if it's worth it.

Here's a couple pics of my layout. My chair (really the only LP) is against the wall. I can move it out a bit if it would help but the biggest problem with it is the chair's "wings" that would block line of sight (sound) to traditionally (stand) mounted surrounds, hence the mounting on the ceiling. Any thoughts on better options?

 

[JohnRice]

I'll need to get back to you when I get home from work. A couple quick comments, though. It looks like you can easily use floor standing L&R speakers just by moving the equipment rack a little to the left. I would also put the surrounds further away, and lower if possible. The right one could go on or in the bookshelf. How about the left side?

 

[marter]

I'll need to get back to you when I get home from work. A couple quick comments, though. It looks like you can easily use floor standing L&R speakers just by moving the equipment rack a little to the left. I would also put the surrounds further away, and lower if possible. The right one could go on or in the bookshelf. How about the left side?

Understood; after work is fine for a response. Quick answers....

Re the fronts, are you suggesting stands for the bookshelves or moving to floor standing speakers? Either way would work, but the Elac floors are expensive. May be worth it though.

Re the surrounds, I could use the bookshelf for the right (have to find the cable stretcher) but the left side is the problem. I've got an L-shaped desk (see new pic) and there's the rub. It's a traffic issue more than anything. I'd have to get them above the chair wings either way. Going wider starts to get complicated if I want to stay in the center of the layout. I can move the entertainment center to the right but it gets close to the door, eliminating the floor or stand mount, and not sure my TV will slide far enough on the wall mount.

Interested in your opinion on how much difference that would make. It's a pain/gain thing I guess.

 

[marter]

Here's a rough floor plan without the speakers or rack. Couple items are not to scale but it's what I'm dealing with.

 

[JohnRice]

Bookshelves on stands would be good too. One goal is to spread them a little further apart for more separation and a wider soundstage. With a good sub, the bookshelves will be just fine.

 

[JohnRice]

I would swap the rack and sub. Rack outside, sub inside.

 

[Todd Erwin]

The pandemic seems to have obliterated all the good closeout and refurb deals. I'd been hoping for something better myself, but nothing has materialized.

I'd give it another month. Having previously sold home audio gear, the new models usually get officially announced in late February/early March, and that is when the clearance sales usually begin.

 

[marter]

Bookshelves on stands would be good too. One goal is to spread them a little further apart for more separation and a wider soundstage. With a good sub, the bookshelves will be just fine.

I've got a pair of stands that would move the fronts from a spread of 68" to around 88", but it puts them slightly below ear level. Makes sense to do that.

I would swap the rack and sub. Rack outside, sub inside.

Here's a pic with the right front on a stand. Given the stand mounts beside the entertainment center, would you still swap the sub and rack? So I'd have the bookshelf/stand, sub and then the rack?

Question: does Audyssey set a time delay based on the distance measured? I.e. if I leave the surrounds where they are and move my seating position to the right, will it compensate enough to negate being off center?

 

[marter]

I'd give it another month. Having previously sold home audio gear, the new models usually get officially announced in late February/early March, and that is when the clearance sales usually begin.

Understood, but I'm time boxed based on my return window on the Denon S750H (Feb 21) so it would complicate things.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

I'd give it another month. Having previously sold home audio gear, the new models usually get officially announced in late February/early March, and that is when the clearance sales usually begin.

Weren't they all already announced back in Oct or so (at least for Denon/Marantz and also Anthem)? Seems like the new models are already available now (albeit maybe in limited quantities and w/ possible software issues as often happens w/ new prepros/AVRs these days, especially given this pandemic)...

_Man_