Amp questions - as in, what to get... (1 Viewer)

[charleyp1]

Well, I thought I had it all figured out but now I'm not so sure. I have about $1300 or so to play with. I am all setup with 7.1 surround in my HT (Polk in-walls - yes, yes, I know, not the way many of you would go, but I have to live with my wife, you don't ). My older Onkyo receiver is dying and I want to shore it up with 7 channels of amps. I will eventually get a pre/pro (latest Marantz or Yamaha, most likely) to replace the Onkyo - just can't do both now.


I nearly pressed the "complete order" button for an Emotiva XPA-7. It would do everything all in one nice "little" box. But do I really NEED it? Would an XPA-3 at half the price + a couple of smaller, cheaper 2 channel amps (like a pair of Onkyo M-282's or some-such) to power the surrounds be a better technical solution? It's certainly a bit cheaper of an option, but not by much unless I skip retail (about $250/each) and buy online (as low as $150 each)

What to do... What to do... I've got a hole in my pocket and a little money to burn... Thoughts?

 

[Phil A]

It is nice to have everything in one box (and often easier to deal with). However, I doubt that for surrounds the power need will be that great. Technology in receivers and pre/pros changes more rapidly than amps. I'm into 2-channel music so I have (2-channel) preamps (in the main system and one back-up system) with HT Bypass. In the back-up system I just got a refurb Marantz SR 5010. I have a Sherbourn preamp (which I picked up for $179 when they merged with Emotiva) and an Emotiva XPA 200. So when it came time to replace something the receiver wasn't too bad. In the main system I have amps for the front 3 channels. It is currently 9.2 but I had in-ceiling surrounds put in several months back for an eventual upgrade. If you hare more into HT and your speaker situation is set and the new formats are out of the question due to room configuration and the speakers, why not get a nice receiver (or pre/pro) refurb (e.g. accessories4less.com).


Here's a couple of pre/pros - http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/marav7005/marantz-av7005-networking-av-preamp/processor/1.html

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/marav7701/marantz-av7701-7.2-4k-3d-av-preamp/processor/1.html


Here's more - http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/category/audioamps/home-audio/receivers-amps/processors-power-amps/1.html


If you go the route of the receiver, there's stuff like - http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/marsr7007/marantz-sr7007-7.2-125wpc-4k-airplay-a/v-receiver/1.html


If you feel you want more power you can do a 2-channel or 3-channel amp

 

[charleyp1]

Thanks for the reply and suggestions! While I do love music, the primary purpose of my setup is for HT. As I mentioned, I plan to replace my older, dying receiver with a Pre/Pro setup, but I can't afford to now. The majority of my receiver troubles appears to be amp related, although I'm down to 1 functioning HDMI-in port, so I thought I'd spend my $1300 on taking the burden off of the receiver amp and kick the can down the road. I have holes cut and speaker wire in place for 4 Atmos speakers, but limited to 7.1 for now. I'd like to avoid replacing the receiver until I can go full Atmos/DTS:X if it's possible. I figure if I get my amps ahead of time, I'll be ready to go when the time comes to get my pre/pro.

Given all that, I guess it gets back to my original question: Emotiva XPA-7 (which as you suggested, might be overkill for the surrounds) or XPA-3 and some smaller, maybe used, 2 channel amps to drive those (or even a 4 or 5 channel - like a Rotel or something) surrounds (and eventually another set to drive my height speakers as well).

Thanks again for the reply!

 

[schan1269]

I would buy a new $1300 AVR and buy amps later.

Emotiva is nowhere near the only thing out there. Besides...the XPA line has "cooked inputs".

 

[charleyp1]

Thanks for the response! Fair enough point. I'm not sure there are any 11.2 AVRs in that price point (especially that will support DTS:X), but I can do a little more looking. The price of the three major Atmos/DTS:X contenders that I've looked at (Onkyo, Marantz, Yamaha), to support all of the features I'm looking for, are all in the $2000+ range.


I am more than happy to entertain amps other than Emotiva, but in that price point, they appear to be the best bang for the buck. Do you have some suggestions for other brands I should consider? Also, I am not familiar with the term "cooked inputs". What does this mean? Thanks and sorry! I'm a bit of a novice here...

 

[schan1269]

Prepros doing 11 channels aren't going to be any less expensive.

By the way. Your 606 that is having issues. Try it using the MCH input. I have a feeling whatever is wrong with that AVR, won't be wrong using the MCH input.

Meaning, use it for the Atmos channels. Plug in 4 RCA from "whatever you get" into 4 of the 7 available spots...connect corresponding speakers.

And if you want 11 channels. Pony up. Forget the external amps. Pair your new RX-A3050...and forgo the external amp...with the 606.

 

[charleyp1]

Right, I was just thinking that if I could buy an amp (or amps) now, hook them up to my 606 to keep that thing useful for a little while longer, I could then buy the pre/pro later.


Ah, you're saying I could use the amp in the 606 to drive the Atmos (or other surround) speakers, via the MCH inputs?

 

[charleyp1]

Also, the Yamaha Aventage 2050 looks like it could be a good fit for an AVR somewhat close to my pricepoint... Maybe that's worth looking further into... It has 9.2 native support expandable to 11.2 with a separate amp. Supports Atmos, DTS:X (with firmware update) and is HDCP 2.2 compliant. In fact, the only things it doesn't have compared to the more costly 3050 is a slightly lower powered amp (140wpc, 2 channels driven vs. 150wpc, 2 channels driven) and support for only 2 subs, vs. 4 on the 3050... Small trade offs, given I never intend to go beyond two anyway... Hmmm... And once I throw amps behind it down the road... maybe, Sam, you are on to something...

 

[schan1269]

Also, the Yamaha Aventage 2050 looks like it could be a good fit for an AVR somewhat close to my pricepoint... Maybe that's worth looking further into... It has 9.2 native support expandable to 11.2 with a separate amp. Supports Atmos, DTS:X (with firmware update) and is HDCP 2.2 compliant. In fact, the only things it doesn't have compared to the more costly 3050 is a slightly lower powered amp (140wpc, 2 channels driven vs. 150wpc, 2 channels driven) and support for only 2 subs, vs. 4 on the 3050... Small trade offs, given I never intend to go beyond two anyway... Hmmm... And once I throw amps behind it down the road... maybe, Sam, you are on to something...

The 2050 does NOT do 11 channels.

A4L has refurb 3050 at $1600...And they fly through their inventory.

 

[charleyp1]

Oh, well, crap. I see that now.

 

[schan1269]

Oh, well, crap. I see that now.

Amended prior post...A4L...

 

[charleyp1]

It looks like the Pioneer Elite SC-95, at $1599, supports 7.1.4, DTS:X and is HDCP 2.2 compliant. Am I overlooking anything? Is this a decent receiver?

 

[schan1269]

It looks like the Pioneer Elite SC-95, at $1599, supports 7.1.4, DTS:X and is HDCP 2.2 compliant. Am I overlooking anything? Is this a decent receiver?

All AVR over $800(MSRP) are "decent".

MCACC gets no love, anywhere. However...I don't use room correction. I place my speakers correctly to begin with...and use room treatments when necessary.

I tested the 79 a couple years ago(for Elite...the last few years, the first digit is related to year, the 2nd digit...where it sits in the lineup). It lived up to the hype(being Air Studios, the DAC and D-class amps finally ready for 4ohm load).

It was a "mess" to set up. I'm familiar with Onkyo though. GeneC(member here) is a Pio/Elite fan. We both agreed Pioneer needs to get their remotes out of 2005. Yamaha remotes aren't much better.

If you used the 606 remote to its full potential(meaning, running the entire show with ease)...you will miss that with Pioneer or Yamaha.

 

[charleyp1]

Prior to sticking my 606 into my HT (just finished construction a couple of weeks ago), it was driving a 5.1 BOSE system - so no, it wasn't ever used to it's full potential

Given I've got all in wall/ceiling speakers, MCACC probably won't really come into play. I've always been an "Onkyo guy" but am more than happy to branch out. 2 of my 3 Onkyos have had amp issues.

I can deal with a "mess" as long as it works. And I'll probably end up using their app over the remote anyway, or getting a universal remote.

And I can't really find any serious, mind-blowing, reasons to go above the SC-95 to the 97 or 99.

 

[schan1269]

I'm surprised Pioneer brought 11 channels to that price point(I see 11 channel Atmos/X never making it under $1200).

Been awhile since I looked, but unless you are listening to Hi-Res FLAC/SACD(DSD) etc through really good speakers...there is no need for the King Kong DAC.

Air Studios cert means something. Not through in-wall speakers though.

And you never mentioned 2nd/3rd zone.

Unless it is some other nitpicky thing...95, there you go.

 

[charleyp1]

I've found some "open box" ones for $1195-1350 - all authorized resellers.


Yeah, it has 3 HDMI outs, but once my height speakers are in, no audio will be going anywhere else.


It has a pair of DACs built in via something they call "ESS SABRE™ digital-to-analog-converters".

 

[schan1269]

Elite does not have a warranty if bought online. Aftermarket warranties might be void as well(as fine print often states "mfr warranty must be valid").

If buying online with a warranty, read the fine print.

 

[charleyp1]

Thanks for the info! I pulled the trigger last night and bought the Elite SC-95 from Best Buy (open box). Got it for $1350. They verified that the warranty is valid.

 

[gene c]

Thanks for the info! I pulled the trigger last night and bought the Elite SC-95 from Best Buy (open box). Got it for $1350. They verified that the warranty is valid.

Congrats on the new receiver! Hope it works out well for you.


As for MCACC, I've never been crazy about any of these room correction programs. They can be beneficial but often times they are not. I usually run the program, double-check the settings and then re-adjust the eq a bit afterwards. MCACC is very user-friendly once you get the feel of it. I really like the six seperate eq's that MCACC provides. They also remember individual speaker volumes and you can set the speaker size and crossover before running the program, rather than changing them afterwords.


I also like the remotes for the most part. I have an SC-25, BDP-05 bluray, DV58avi dvd and an Elite 301 disc cd changer in one room and an Elite VSX-23, BDP-23 BR with another 58 in a different room. They are all controlled by the same model remote, the one that came with the vsx-23. I bought a second one off ebay. Only thing it can't do is change rotate the cd changer. IMO, the Marantz remotes of the last few years are the best but the Pioneer's not that bad. I've gotten used to it.


Main issues I have with Pioneer receivers is their single crossover (not a problem for me but might be for others) and their lack of OSD overlay. The new Pioneers have it, but not mine. The SC-25 is 18 feet from where I sit and my eyes are not what they used to be . Eq on the subs is another recently added and long over-do feature.


I've probably had well over 15 or so avr's over the last few years and they're all pretty good. They work a bit differently from one to another. Denon is my least favorite, the rest are about equal, just ...different. I think I've just gotten used to Pioneer. Had to stop the Merry-Go-Round and landed on Pioneer.


ESS Sabre DAC's are about the best out there but as Sam eluded, you need excellent speakers to get the best out of it.


I've always felt Pioneer receivers were "crystal clear" sounding. Not "warm" or "musical" (whaterver those mean) just clear as glass.


The SC-97 adds a little stronger amp section, Air Studio's Certification and 3D Space Frame Construction (???).


The SC-99 adds to the 97...a little bit more amp, Low Leakage Flux Power Transformer, Precision Distance and beefier speaker terminals.


I've always felt the $1000 price point was the best value in the Pioneer lineup over the years (SC-91) but these days you can get an awfull lot of avr for $600-$700 msrp (1124 / SC-90). Check out the Product Sheets under "Manuals and Downloads" for each receiver on Pioneers site. Here's the one for your 95.


http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/ephox/StaticFiles/PUSA/Files/Home/SC-95_Single_Sheet1.pdf

 

[charleyp1]

Gene,


Thanks for the reply. I doubt MCACC will come into play in any event, given I've got all in wall speakers that I can't really adjust for optimal positioning.


I do need to consider the remote issue. I have a small stack and I'd love to do away with some or all. I will consider a Harmony but I know my wife didn't like our last one (8 years ago...).


I have a network rack on the other side of the wall from my screen where all my equipment is installed. I used a Sewell Direct SW-29309 IR repeater which comes with a decent wall plate to extend my IR over to the rack. Best choice ever.


Thanks for the product sheet link!

My receiver arrives today! I can't wait to get my grubby little fingers on it and catapult my old Onkyo into the street.