A Few Words About A few words about...™ My Best Friend's Wedding -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Will Krupp]

About "black crush"...

First thing I always ask...

"Watching via LCD?"

That's a cute "zinger" and all but, if LED/LCD technology was solely responsible for what we're referring to as mild "black crush" in this instance, it would effect every title. It doesn't.

 

[Konstantinos]

That's a cute "zinger" and all but, if LED/LCD technology was solely responsible for what we're referring to as mild "black crush" in this instance, it would effect every title. It doesn't.

Exactly!

The problem is ONLY in these 2-3 latest Sony Blurays. (where the UV copies that come with the Bluray are just fine and their respective Blurays aren't!)

I have 150 Blurays and I don't have a problem with anything else.



By the way, another site too (except bluray.com) mentions the problem.

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/17046/theinterview.html

For whatever reason, Sony has given this movie quite an oversaturated transfer in terms of color, making almost every scene look much darker than it should and giving many scenes so much black crush, you literally can't see any details because the image is so dark. Also of note is the fact that the UV copy provided here (as well as the digital version I watched back at Christmastime) do not suffer from the crushed blacks this transfer does, so it's easy enough to make a comparison.

if you (plural) don't want to trust your own eyes here at HTF, I don't have any problem...

I just thought it would be good to mention it too, that the problem does exist.


Disney had replaced its Arachnophobia Bluray for wrong gamma, so I think Sony should replace these Blurays too with the "corrected" ones!

 

[Aaron Silverman]

I'm not sure what black crush is, but to be honest, the color in those BD caps looks better than the color in the UV caps to me.

 

[bruceames]

This black crush thing seems like a pretty gray area. Some people will have less shadow detail just because of the capability of the TV to produce blacks and how well the TV is calibrated. And even if one version has less shadow detail than another, how do we know which one is correct? Both could be wrong (one having too much and the other too little). Just because one exposes more shadow detail doesn't mean the other has crush blacks. Maybe that shadow detail was not meant to be seen (or at least, to that extent).

 

[Konstantinos]

This black crush thing seems like a pretty gray area. Some people will have less shadow detail just because of the capability of the TV to produce blacks and how well the TV is calibrated. And even if one version has less shadow detail than another, how do we know which one is correct? Both could be wrong (one having too much and the other too little). Just because one exposes more shadow detail doesn't mean the other has crush blacks. Maybe that shadow detail was not meant to be seen (or at least, to that extent).

I think since the UV copy isn't identical to the BLuray on the same screen (I'm talking mostly about Fury and Interview because in My Best Friend's wedding the UV copy seems to be by an older master), it's logical that one of them is wrong, isn't it?

 

[dpippel]

It's also possible, as Bruce mentioned, that BOTH of them are wrong.

 

[Konstantinos]

It seems Sony coincidentally decided to release lately all the films that were originally shot very dark.


My Girl

Another explanation:

Something is really going wrong with their "new" settings on encoding their Blurays...

This is the 4th one!


I really hope the cinematographer of one of the films, eg. Fury, could shed some light which is the most accurate:http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/multi_comparison.php?disc1=5624&disc2=5616&cap1=52632&cap2=52550&art=full&image=7&hd_multiID=2290&action=1&lossless=#vergleich

http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/multi_comparison.php?disc1=5624&disc2=5616&cap1=52625&cap2=52543&art=full&image=0&hd_multiID=2290&action=1&lossless=#vergleich


I think the Taiwanese (is it?) Bluray proves that the original master isn't that dark.

Because if they got the master as it is on the US Bluray, they couldn't bring back detail by brightening it.

 

[Robert Harris]

I've not been tracking this thread, but if these are all current releases, it could be that everyone's monitors are improperly adjusted for the new gamma standard of 2.4 vs 2.2.

There may be a need for multiple settings based upon the date that programming was finalized and authored.

That should be fun...

RAH

 

[Persianimmortal]

I hope RAH is joking, as suddenly authoring BDs to a different display gamma target is going to cause a lot of problems for people. For those who don't quite get the gamma issue, try this link for more info.

I aimed for a 2.35 gamma target when doing an amateur calibration on my TV as I like a slightly darker, richer look, but viewing those screencaps on three different screens (iPad Air, Samsung LCD PC monitor and a Panasonic plasma) I can see that they look even darker than expected.

Again, I hope this is an isolated issue rather than a deliberate systematic switch to a new gamma target. I, and most people, will not be using different calibrated presets on a per-disc basis!

 

[Mike Boone]

Watched the Blu-ray of My Best Friend's Wedding, last Sunday afternoon, and was not the slightest bit disappointed by the image it produced on our 80" screen. It simply looked terrific.

 

[EddieLarkin]

If this was a gamma issue, you'd simply be able to correct for it by altering your display settings. One cannot do this, as the information that is now obscured by the darker grading on these new releases is gone. It doesn't matter how much you adjust the brightness or contrast or gamma on your display, the image information will not come back. Since that information is there on all other formats (whether that's international Blu-rays, UV copies etc.), then it's clear something is going wrong on Sony's end.

 

[Konstantinos]

Here's an elightening screenshot by a Bluray.com member, on the things EddieLarkin is talking about:

 

[bruceames]

The above shows two different darkness levels. Of course there will be less shadow detail in the darker pic. How do we know which one is correct. And just because certain shadow detail is visible doesn't mean it was intended to be visible.

 

[Will Krupp]

How do we know which one is correct. And just because certain shadow detail is visible doesn't mean it was intended to be visible.

With all due respect, Bruce, do we REALLY need someone to "tell" us which of those two looks right?


Even if the information wasn't intended to be visible with correctly set black and gamma levels, it would still BE there.


The information is currently gone and is not recoverable.


If I had a nickel for every HTF member (all of whom, with one or two notable exceptions, I love dearly for all of our combined quirks) who wants and needs to believe that the latest and greatest incarnation of a title is the way it was "intended to be seen," while necessarily denigrating every other version running up to it, (even if the consensus at the time was that the last version was the way it was "intended to be seen") I would have all of my discs paid for without ever having to reach into my own pocket.

 

[bruceames]

With all due respect, Bruce, do we REALLY need someone to "tell" us which of those two looks right?


Even if the information wasn't intended to be visible with correctly set black and gamma levels, it would still BE there.


The information is currently gone and is not recoverable.


If I had a nickel for every HTF member (all of whom, with one or two notable exceptions, I love dearly for all of our combined quirks) who wants and needs to believe that the latest and greatest incarnation of a title is the way it was "intended to be seen," while necessarily denigrating every other version running up to it, (even if the consensus at the time was that the last version was the way it was "intended to be seen") I would have all of my discs paid for without ever having to reach into my own pocket.

Oh please spare me the rant on "intended to be seen". I didn't know it was some pet peeve of yours. I just think this whole amateur screenshot scientist >> respected reviewers (like those of Mr. Harris above) is getting a little ridiculous. Nobody was complaining about Fury black crush until somebody started comparing screenshot against an another version with a higher brightness level. It was given top marks everywhere and now a few people thinks it looks like "crap" because they saw a few screenshots. GMAB.

 

[Will Krupp]

I just think this whole amateur screenshot scientist >> respected reviewers (like those of Mr. Harris above) is getting a little ridiculous.

Not as ridiculous, quite frankly, as the notion that no one can ever come to a conclusion that is different from that of Mr. Harris without the pitchforks coming out.

 

[revgen]

The above shows two different darkness levels. Of course there will be less shadow detail in the darker pic. How do we know which one is correct. And just because certain shadow detail is visible doesn't mean it was intended to be visible.

It's not just levels of darkness, but lost detail too. My Best Friend's Wedding isn't a great example of "correctness" since both the UV and Blu-Ray are completely different masters.

 

[EddieLarkin]

I saw Fury theatrical and remember this shot distinctly:


http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/multi_comparison.php?disc1=5616&disc2=5624&cap1=52545&cap2=52627&art=full&image=2&hd_multiID=2290&action=1&lossless=#vergleich


I definitely recall actually being able to see the wheels and tread, unlike on the Sony Blu-ray where they are just a black blob. The other Blu-ray, which uses the same master, is obviously how it should be.


What I think is happening is that someone is setting the colour space to 0-255 instead of the correct 16-235 when mastering these Blu-rays. Change it yourself on your player if you have the option (using another Blu-ray, not one of these); you'll see a similar drop in brightness and a loss of shadow detail. Sadly, there is no way to get the image back once the disc goes out like this, outside of a replacement program.

 

[Oblivion138]

For what it's worth (and not knowing directorial intent), both presentations have their pros and cons when it comes to Fury. It's a case of black crush vs. milky blacks and flatter contrast. And no one seems to be mentioning the macroblocking on the Taiwanese transfer...too caught up arguing gamma, I guess.

 

[davidmatychuk]

"Gamma, gamma, we accept you, we accept you, one of us, one of us".