A Few Words About A few words about...™ Bram Stoker's Dracula -- in BD

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Robert Harris, Oct 1, 2007.

  1. Michel_Hafner

    Michel_Hafner Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2002
    Messages:
    985
    Likes Received:
    109

    About the intent only the film makers can give definitive answers. Fact is that both versions can serve a purpose. And it's not unheard of that someone changes his mind as well concerning some points, years after the original was made. Especially if new technical means become available. I simply don't agree that the transfer as a whole is botched. There are some shots where it would be interesting to hear Coppola comment why he went this way and not that way. But overall this version works well for me. My only complaint is that my current projector has still not the black level I would like to have watching this transfer. To be watched again for sure with uncompressed sound and deeper blacks, sometime in the future.
     
  2. RobertR

    RobertR Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 1998
    Messages:
    9,690
    Likes Received:
    159
    The problem I have is how utterly loathe these filmmakers are to simply say "hey, I changed my mind", as if to do so would be an acknowledgment of some "weakness" or (gasp!) lack of perfect (in other words, they are human) judgement. Instead, we get this "this was always my intent" claim, and any attempt to show otherwise is treated as some sort of blasphemy.
     
  3. Cees Alons

    Cees Alons Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 1997
    Messages:
    19,316
    Likes Received:
    289
    Real Name:
    Cees Alons
    But because reportedly the image on the BD copies the one on the official original Answer Print, that's all not applicable: it reflects the intention of the director, whether any viewer likes it himself or not!


    Cees
     
  4. Gabe D

    Gabe D Cinematographer

    Joined:
    May 16, 2001
    Messages:
    2,173
    Likes Received:
    0
    The key word here is "reportedly." I don't question that this is what an insider said. However, without visual evidence (which I'm sure we'll never see), or at least confirmation that someone trustworthy has personally compared the original answer print to the disc sold in stores, this excuse is hard for some of us to believe. (Not that I mean to call anyone a liar. I don't. It's just that this is hard to believe ... it doesn't seem to make any sense.)
     
  5. Cees Alons

    Cees Alons Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 1997
    Messages:
    19,316
    Likes Received:
    289
    Real Name:
    Cees Alons
    But it's the very best we have. Or else no discussion would really make any sense.

    Anyway, "assuming" that the director changed his/her opinion, or or doesn't agree, etc. is a far more unfounded option and not suited for serious discussion at all. What could someone else say to those assumptions? Yes he did? No he didn't?


    Cees
     
  6. RobertR

    RobertR Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 1998
    Messages:
    9,690
    Likes Received:
    159
    I can't assume that without knowing more, Cees. I was just commenting that directors never seem to want to admit that they simply changed their mind. Why is that? And is it reasonable to assume that they never do?
     
  7. Paul Hillenbrand

    Paul Hillenbrand Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 1998
    Messages:
    1,509
    Likes Received:
    256
    Real Name:
    Paul Hillenbrand
    Agreed.

    The same could be said when Lucas said he intentionally reversed the instrumentation on the Star Wars soundtrack.[​IMG]

    The possibility of it being that effects were filmed in the production and ignored when viewed by the director for final approval is there.
    The fact that the effects where there at all could leave room for someone else's interpretation and possible error when it was prepared for Laser Disc too. (?)

    Paul
     
  8. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2000
    Messages:
    5,548
    Likes Received:
    169
    I watched this last night again on now on two different ISF calibrated displays of mine (PS3/Sony CRT RPTV KP-57WS520 at 1080i and Pansonic BD30/Sony SXRD 60A3000 at 1080p/24) and I can see Harker's writing - albeit faintly - on both displays. Completely invisible in these shots (maybe due to my uncalibrated monitor settings [​IMG] ). I'm not seeing anywhere near the crushing though on the displays.

    On any rate, the Blu-ray version looks very good to me on two different set-ups and technologies. Let me also say the PCM track is great too.
     
  9. David Wilkins

    David Wilkins Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2001
    Messages:
    828
    Likes Received:
    7

    That's good. That's very good. Perhaps the most productive words (and best image reproduction) we've had here for a while.
     
  10. Ed St. Clair

    Ed St. Clair Producer

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    Messages:
    3,320
    Likes Received:
    0
    So do you differ with Mr. Harris?

    MackDaddy,

    Pictures speak a thousand words!!!
    (and people post like this thread has nothing left to offer)
    (would be really, really, great; to see a "film" capture as well!)
    Where did you get those screen captures?
    Guess I'll hang on to my SB.

    Should have caught up w/u sometime in bizerkly.
    Wish you & your family, all the best.
    Happy Holidays!
     
  11. Ed St. Clair

    Ed St. Clair Producer

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    Messages:
    3,320
    Likes Received:
    0
    What did you think of the other photo(s)?
    ( posted by: Dave Mack)
     
  12. Ed St. Clair

    Ed St. Clair Producer

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    Messages:
    3,320
    Likes Received:
    0
    Holly Molly!

    I've not followed this thread. I had read Mr. Harris's OP.
    Butt, did not follow it till tonight; seeing what is usually people just thanking RAH, had turning into over two hundred posts.
    Now I "see" why!

    This is different, this is very different.
    I can't imagine "they" would have changed the original SD DVD releases that much from the theatrical release. So I'm thinking this is brand new.
    No doubt about it.
    (most amazing too me is how clear as a bell now that 'fire' shot is)

    Well, at least people are paying attention to HD Disc releases.
    Now its just which an individual prefers: original or revisionist.

    You think Coppola & Lucas know each other???
    JJ
     
  13. Dave Mack

    Dave Mack Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2002
    Messages:
    4,670
    Likes Received:
    4
    Hiya Ed!
    We just got back to NYC!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    ...it's just that it's so dramatically different than all previous versions with previously seen effects, sets now rendered virtually invisible because of the crushed blacks and then the altered color scheme in parts. The above shot, Dracula is suppossed to be backlit by MOONLIGHT. In all previous versions, it was blue, now it's suddenly green in the BD.... This was really intended all along?!?!?
    The moonlight just turned green? Well, the flame on the castle-wall has now so I guess it's possible.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Ok, flame is now, green.....


    The wonderful, oscar winning costumes, (and I have the Eiko Dracula book) used to look amazing and colorful, now they virtually look grey...


    [​IMG][​IMG]

    The train interior now has much less saturation yet somehow the lamps look slightly more saturated. Like bad photoshop, very synthetic and digital looking.





    here are shots of this scene from the official book.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    looks more like the sb dvd.



    And I have gotten the BD grabs from Xylon at AVS who takes them directly off the BD and SB dvd discs raw.
     
  14. Cees Alons

    Cees Alons Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 1997
    Messages:
    19,316
    Likes Received:
    289
    Real Name:
    Cees Alons
    Dave,

    Because you're posting those pictures once again: did you read post #268?

    (And I'm not sure which point you try to make. We KNOW that the BD differs from the previous DVD.)

    Happy holidays to you too!


    Cees
     
  15. Douglas Monce

    Douglas Monce Producer

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2006
    Messages:
    5,514
    Likes Received:
    12

    This sounds about like what I'm seeing as well. The writing is faint, but there.

    Doug
     
  16. Grant H

    Grant H Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,844
    Likes Received:
    0

    I just noticed in the interior train shot how not just the lamps, but all the whites were completely altered. There was actually white on the SB. Now even a white shirt collar is kind of flesh-colored. Like they weren't too careful after they desaturated it to black and white and just made everything light-colored flesh-toned.

    Another chance to buy this for 9.99 at J&R, but still can't bite (no pun intended). Of course, I'd have to pick up a few to make the shipping worthwhile most likely.
     
  17. Ed St. Clair

    Ed St. Clair Producer

    Joined:
    May 7, 2001
    Messages:
    3,320
    Likes Received:
    0

    Were the shots from the book in this thread B4 (sorry if I missed them)?

    We now know the BD differs from the SD DVD, thanks MackDaddy, butt this thread stated the BD looks like the film. Do we know the BD looks like the film?

    Happy Holiday Cees & to all!!!

    MackDaddy,

    You've had some good posts on this forum B4, yet I think this is your greatest work (and I do mean "work") yet.

    I agree with the train scene comments, those lamps lost their "Tiffany" glow!
     
  18. Cees Alons

    Cees Alons Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 1997
    Messages:
    19,316
    Likes Received:
    289
    Real Name:
    Cees Alons
    We know the BD looks like the Answer Print and we know the images in this thread don't look like the BD images on some posters' displays.

    What more do you want to get out of this thread? And how?


    Cees
     
  19. Jeff Cooper

    Jeff Cooper Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2000
    Messages:
    1,434
    Likes Received:
    95
    Maybe if I saw just a few more screen grabs, then I would change my mind and be convinced that there was something wrong... [​IMG]
     
  20. Bryan^H

    Bryan^H Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,675
    Likes Received:
    690

    I want the ANSWER PRINT!!!!![​IMG]
     

Share This Page