A Few Thoughts About....Blu-ray/DVD FLIPPER DISCS (1 Viewer)

[David_B_K]

Originally Posted by Joe Karlosi /forum/thread/297010/a-few-thoughts-about-blu-ray-dvd-flipper-discs/30#post_3649383
What I don't understand about this is, who does this benefit?
1.) If you're a person who prefers and only wants a Blu-ray version, what is the point of having the DVD version on the same disc? Why would you ever need the DVD version?
2.) If you're a DVD fan who is not interested in Blu-ray at all, and who doesn't even own a BD player so he may sample the boosted quality difference, why would you need a Blu-ray version, and how could you even play the thing on your standard machine?

I certainly do not need two versions. Once I get a high-def version of something, that's all I watch.
The only way I see this 2-sided approach working is that they stop selling SD DVDs altogether, or else the SD DVD consumer will just buy a SD DVD for (presumably) less money.
If the 2-sided is the only version, then it might benefit some consumers. A couple of years ago, I bought an SACD player. (I know SACD is not a popular format, but I listen mainly to classical music, and there are lots of classical SACD titles.) Once I started listening to SACD, I wanted more titles. Most classical SACDs are now released as hybrid discs, so you can play the multichannel version in your SACD player, and the redbook CD version in your car, rip to your iPod, etc.
I started looking through my collection, and fortunately, I already had some SACD hybrids I had bought when I only had a CD player. So, I already had SACD versions of some favorite pieces without even knowing it, as I had ignored the "hybrid" designation before I bought the SACD player.
So, it is possible, I suppose, that people who buy 2-sided discs may appreciate the upgrade in software if they ever do make the jump to Blu. As far as 2-sided goes in my experience, none of my HD DVD combo discs have experienced any problems yet. I did have a lot of issues with laser rot in the LD days, but that is such old technology I don't think it has any bearing.

 

[PaulDA]

I have over 40 combo HD DVD discs and I've never had a problem with any of them. I have, probably, about the same number of "flipper" SD DVDs and have never had any problems with them either. I was a big fan of the HD DVD/DVD combo discs because of portability, so I have no qualms about these new BD/DVD flipper discs as a concept. As long as they play on my machines, I don't care.

 

[rayman1701]

I'm a little leary because of my experiences with the HDDVD flippers, I went through 3 copies of the Matrix set & 2 copies of 300 before I got ones that would play all the way thru. So that makes me a bit nervous about the whole idea, but if they really have a new formula for the glue, then maybe I could see it working. But only if the price didn't spike as well.
What I REALLY wish Universal would do is something like the Red2Blue promo that Warner's did. I jumped all over that mainly for the reason of not knowing if my flippers would play in a few years or not. To be able to do that type of exchange would be nice. Heck even the DVD2Blu that they are doing now was sweet too. That is a way to move adoption to catalog titles AND not having someone giving the DVD's away, since you had to send the discs in for that promo. So if Universal would do something similar I would definately be all over that.
So for me it could go either way, as long as there is no problems, fine. I would still prefer 2 discs but can understand their connerns. BUT if I start having some playback issues with the Blu-ray side, then that's when it is an issue and in that case I would probably avoid the flippers. But I'm not adverse to giving them a chance.
Just my .02

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H /forum/thread/297010/a-few-thoughts-about-blu-ray-dvd-flipper-discs/60#post_3650088
Fair enough, but when people see that the BD-only discs are $90 for the set vs. $20 each individually, that's going to move units too.

The price for this box set is not a good one for comparison, since Universal for some reason has always priced the Bourne box set ridiculously high. I have purchased many other three-film BD box sets for around $30, yet this set has almost always sold for over $70. I finally purchased it from Amazon.uk for about $35, as the United Kingdom set was very reasonably priced.

 

[Douglas Monce]

Originally Posted by Scott Merryfield /forum/thread/297010/a-few-thoughts-about-blu-ray-dvd-flipper-discs/60#post_3649892
Because the cost of the BD/DVD combo is going to be more expensive than the price of a DVD-only package. Price will win every time with a mass market format.

Unless there is no DVD only option.
Doug

 

[Clinton McClure]

As long as the price is right, I have no problem with dual-sided discs. Of thousands of discs played, I have only had two or three DVDs fail and I have never had a dual-sided disc fail, be it DVD or HD-DVD.

 

[Jeff Ulmer]

Put me in the skeptical column when it comes to these flippers. Whether the discs play right off the bat is one thing, but I have far too many DVDs that have gone bad sitting in their cases to be confident that another multilayer format is going to have the shelf life I want from products I buy. If we must get two formats in the same package, I would prefer separate discs. If one fails, the other can be backup.

I'm not sure what the benefit of this format is either - how do they do in-store marketing? Is the title put with Blu Rays, or will it be with the DVDs? I can see the advantage of a single SKU, but I can't see it as a way to jack pricing - consumers are used to current DVD pricing, and raising them will only mean fewer sales.

 

[Bryan X]

That the disc plays without any problems is the main thing, but even so, I don't like flipper discs. I just like having artwork on the top of the disc. The flippers just look chintzy to me. I would much rather have a dvd disc included in the blu-ray package if a dvd version must be included.

 

[Todd Erwin]

Originally Posted by David_B_K /forum/thread/297010/a-few-thoughts-about-blu-ray-dvd-flipper-discs/60#post_3650094
I certainly do not need two versions. Once I get a high-def version of something, that's all I watch.
The only way I see this 2-sided approach working is that they stop selling SD DVDs altogether, or else the SD DVD consumer will just buy a SD DVD for (presumably) less money.
If the 2-sided is the only version, then it might benefit some consumers. A couple of years ago, I bought an SACD player. (I know SACD is not a popular format, but I listen mainly to classical music, and there are lots of classical SACD titles.) Once I started listening to SACD, I wanted more titles. Most classical SACDs are now released as hybrid discs, so you can play the multichannel version in your SACD player, and the redbook CD version in your car, rip to your iPod, etc.
I started looking through my collection, and fortunately, I already had some SACD hybrids I had bought when I only had a CD player. So, I already had SACD versions of some favorite pieces without even knowing it, as I had ignored the "hybrid" designation before I bought the SACD player.
So, it is possible, I suppose, that people who buy 2-sided discs may appreciate the upgrade in software if they ever do make the jump to Blu. As far as 2-sided goes in my experience, none of my HD DVD combo discs have experienced any problems yet. I did have a lot of issues with laser rot in the LD days, but that is such old technology I don't think it has any bearing.

IMO, this is where Sony really goofed in the SACD format. Once SACD hit the street, they should have made most, if not all, future CD releases SACD hybrids, even if a multi-channel mix was never created. Universal Music Group made a similar mistake when they re-issued the Peter Gabriel catalog in separate CD and SACD versions here in the US, while Europe got SACD hybrids.

 

[Joe Karlosi]

Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein /img/forum/go_quote.gif


But they are also attempting to lure consumers who still have
not embraced the BD format. By giving them a copy of a BDin addition to the DVD title they purchased they now are lured
into upgrading to the HD format.

You mean that people will then figure "Since I've already got a Blu-ray copy on the other side, maybe I should buy a Blu-ray player after all"?

These flipper discs are more beneficial to non-BD owners than to us, I would think. We don't need the SD.

 

[JonZ]

Unless your HDTV dies and you cant afford to go out and buy a good HDTV right away, or you want to bring some movies with you to a friends house or while travelling,etc.

I like having the SD option.

 

[DaveF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein
problem with combo discs for purists is that you lose disc label artwork. Personally, I can understand that this may be important to collectors, but overall, I don't find it to be a major loss.

When I first heard about DVD "flippers", even before I had a DVD player, I thought "what a great idea!". It was a practical engineering decision, doubling the storage on a single disc. Before I used them, I was a big fan.

Then I got a DVD player, and experienced using a flipper. What a bother they were. Because they are noticeably more difficult to use. They make a trivial act of putting a disc in the player require a moment's pause and consideration, every single time.

Take a DVD out of the case -- it's always art-side up -- and put it in the player. Not thought, no reading, required. We've been doing this for decades, trained by CDs. When done, put disc back in case, label up.

Take a flipper out of the case. And pause. What side is up? Squint at the bug, Spin the disc to get the label right-side up to read it. Read it. (If you're too literal like me, puzzle over whether "Side A" means it goes up to play or down to put Side A play side down as with a regular disc.) Decide which way is up. Put disc in. Then when removing disc, decide which side to place up in the case and hope you remember it next time.


As is seen from other products, providing the best user experience does not necessarily mean maximizing technical wizardry. It's the taming of the engineering features to provide the best experience. Flippers ignore this and while appearing technically superior are in actuality inferior to the actual user.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Verily agreed, Dave.

Often, such "innovations" are so very lacking in understanding the target user, who are human (of the average variety), not robots (nor the relatively few of us obsessed enthusiasts nor Vulcans or the like ).

Anyway, I'm not convinced of this flipper format. Like many others, I'd much rather have a separate DVD disc included instead in the cases where I personally find having the DVD version all that useful, eg. mainly new releases of family/kids-oriented titles (and in those cases, flippers could actually be particularly bad, IMHO).

_Man_

 

[Mike Frezon]

Originally Posted by DaveF /forum/thread/297010/a-few-thoughts-about-blu-ray-dvd-flipper-discs/90#post_3650359
(If you're too literal like me, puzzle over whether "Side A" means it goes up to play or down to put Side A play side down as with a regular disc.) Decide which way is up. Put disc in. Then when removing disc, decide which side to place up in the case and hope you remember it next time.

Classic!
That's me! I always have to re-think the "If it says this is Side-A, and I want to play Side A, then I have to stick the disc in the machine with Side A facing DOWN, right--because that's where the laser is?" moment! /img/vbsmilies/htf/laugh.gif

 

[Mark-P]

Originally Posted by Mike Frezon /forum/thread/297010/a-few-thoughts-about-blu-ray-dvd-flipper-discs/90#post_3650460
Classic!
That's me! I always have to re-think the "If it says this is Side-A, and I want to play Side A, then I have to stick the disc in the machine with Side A facing DOWN, right--because that's where the laser is?" moment! /img/vbsmilies/htf/laugh.gif

In the early days of DVD flippers with the widescreen version on one side and fullscreen on the other, it was always standardized that the labels described what was on the opposite side of the disc so there was no confusion - what you wanted to watch was label up. Then they started only labeling one side and that's when it got confusing with terminology like "flipside"
I don't really care if the labels are confusing. I just think it is really nifty to get both versions on a single disc to give me more usage options.

 

[Jeff Ulmer]

The discussion surrounding the WS/P&S DVD flipper is an interesting one, but it parallels the current discussion. In both cases I am getting something I don't really want.

If the reason for having a DVD version included is so the kids could watch it (at home or in the car), I certainly wouldn't want my BR being part of that process. No matter which version is the preferred one, the other side is invariably going to end up being placed on a surface where it doesn't belong and invite scratches. I'd rather a label be available in that case.

Other than the assumption that any release that requires either a dual disc or more complicated replication process will invariably cost more in the end, I have no issue with including a second disc for an SD version. Regardless of the improvements in manufacturing, I still don't believe that a more complicated item will have the reliability and/or longevity of a more simply manufactured item.

 

[DaveF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
Classic!
That's me! I always have to re-think the "If it says this is Side-A, and I want to play Side A, then I have to stick the disc in the machine with Side A facing DOWN, right--because that's where the laser is?" moment!

Glad to know I'm not the only one!
I'm all in favor of the multi-disc packs with BD, DVD, Digital, Bonus features. The actual disc costs for a DVD or two must be a miniscule fraction of the actual product cost. So stick in the extra plastic and don't bother us with annoying flippers.

 

[RickER]

Bottom line for me...Universal do what you want.

But I (speaking only for me) wont be buying these damn things. Even if others on here say its gold. I would rather do without. Thats just me, but i know i am not alone. My philosophy has always been if i dont enjoy it, if it makes me mad, if i get hosed...dont do it. So i wont.
Movies are a my hobby, and i have high standards for product, and how i spend my money. Its not like i am folding my wash while i watch my DVDs, or Blu-rays. Its special, and it should be fun. But to this point, some of the double sided discs i have had, have taken the fun away. It became a quest to get discs that would work, and didnt have scratches. A quest i would rather pass on.

Its your double sided discs, and your movies. But its MY money, and you wont get any.

Same goes for the DVD-R's!

 

[Cees Alons]

Then it's THEIR discs, and you won't get them!
/img/vbsmilies/htf/smile.gif
Cees

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Originally Posted by Mike Frezon /forum/thread/297010/a-few-thoughts-about-blu-ray-dvd-flipper-discs/90#post_3650460
Classic!
That's me! I always have to re-think the "If it says this is Side-A, and I want to play Side A, then I have to stick the disc in the machine with Side A facing DOWN, right--because that's where the laser is?" moment! /img/vbsmilies/htf/laugh.gif">

You are not alone, Mike and Dave. I would have those same doubtful moments with those darn flippers.