UHD Review A Few Words About A few words about...™ - Natural Born Killers -- in 4k UHD (1 Viewer)

[Robert Harris]

For some viewers, Oliver Stone's 1994 Natural Born Killers, a kind of next gen Bonnie and Clyde, only now Mickey and Mallory, seems to be a love it or hate it situation. Mixed media all the way and uber-violent.

There have been numerous incarnations of the film, both in theatrical as well as Director's Cut, but for lovers of the film, Shout Factory's latest 4k three-disc combo seems to top the others.

The Director's Cut is both 4k as well as BD, while the original Theatrical is BD only. For audio, all three are DTS-HD 5.1, and the tracks are superb.

These are new scans of the OCN, and possibly because of that, while the 4k looks superb, especially when viewing the hi-con titles, the BD is right behind it. View the film from a nominal seating distance and either format works beautifully.

For fans of the film the 4k is the way to go.

As mixed media and format, grain is sometimes in your face, but it's proper. Color and densities are superb.

Various extras, some new, some not are arranged over all three discs, making it a true Collector's Edition.

Image – 5 (Dolby Vision)

Audio – 5 (DTS-HD MA 5.1)

Pass / Fail – Pass

Plays nicely with projectors - Yes

Makes use of and works well in 4k - 7

Upgrade from Blu-ray - If you love the film

Worth your attention - 7

Slipcover rating - 1

Recommended

RAH


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[titch]

I always think the opening scene at the diner is one of the most powerfully filmed and edited scenes in all of cinema. Back in the day, it rivalled Saving Private Ryan for impact and ferocity. Not only the visual imagery, but the music: Leonard Cohen's The Miracle is one of the best opening songs in film, the way it fades into the snaking of the Regency logo, then moving into Robert Gordon's The Way I Walk on the jukebox, before L7 and Shitlist kick off, when the fighting starts, a burst of Madame Butterfly, when the knife gets thrown, to Moon Over Greene County by Dan Zane, when Mabel gets shot. Sensational, even today.

 

[Kyle_D]

For as culturally hot-button as Stone was during the 80s and early 90s, his rep is curiously low-key today. I'm really looking forward to this revisiting this one, as I don't think I've seen it since I was a middle schooler on late night cable in the late 90s.

 

[Jeffrey D]

I saw it once- I remember it as sensory overload- no quiet time. I don’t know if I would like it any more than I did on my first viewing.

 

[PatrickDA]

I ordered the Best Buy steelbook!

 

[SD_Brian]

For as culturally hot-button as Stone was during the 80s and early 90s, his rep is curiously low-key today.

He had an amazing run from 1986-1995 (Salvador, Platoon, Wall Street, Talk Radio, Born on the Fourth of July, The Doors, JFK, Heaven and Earth, Natural Born Killers, Nixon), but his movie output slowed down after that and he hasn't had a new theatrical release since Snowden in 2016. If Stone is a hot-button today, it's likely due to his documentary series on Putin painting a picture of Vlad that is...outside of the mainstream.

 

[Kyle_D]

He had an amazing run from 1986-1995 (Salvador, Platoon, Wall Street, Talk Radio, Born on the Fourth of July, The Doors, JFK, Heaven and Earth, Natural Born Killers, Nixon), but his movie output slowed down after that and he hasn't had a new theatrical release since Snowden in 2016. If Stone is a hot-button today, it's likely due to his documentary series on Putin painting a picture of Vlad that is...outside of the mainstream.

Even the rep of his '86-95 films seem to have faded. Platoon, Wall Street, Born on the Fourth of July, JFK, and NBK were all inescapable parts of the cultural conversation upon release through the end of the 90s, but they seem to have been largely ignored by subsequent generations. Stone's heyday came along too late for his run to be celebrated by film historians alongside the 70s movie brats and too early to be celebrated alongside the 90s GenX iconoclasts like Tarantino and Fincher. His output since Nixon has also probably done a lot to dilute his legacy.

 

[SD_Brian]

Even the rep of his '86-95 films seem to have faded. Platoon, Wall Street, Born on the Fourth of July, JFK, and NBK were all inescapable parts of the cultural conversation upon release through the end of the 90s, but they seem to have been largely ignored by subsequent generations. Stone's heyday came along too late for his run to be celebrated by film historians alongside the 70s movie brats and too early to be celebrated alongside the 90s GenX iconoclasts like Tarantino and Fincher. His output since Nixon has also probably done a lot to dilute his legacy.

I think it's a case of Stone's mixed-media, rapid-edit cinematic style being so fully absorbed by subsequent filmmakers that we forget how fresh they once were. Oppenheimer, to name a recent example, is heavily influenced by what Oliver Stone did 30+ years ago in JFK. Also, as you said, his post-Nixon output hasn't done his legacy many favors.

 

[PatrickDA]

He had an amazing run from 1986-1995 (Salvador, Platoon, Wall Street, Talk Radio, Born on the Fourth of July, The Doors, JFK, Heaven and Earth, Natural Born Killers, Nixon), but his movie output slowed down after that and he hasn't had a new theatrical release since Snowden in 2016. If Stone is a hot-button today, it's likely due to his documentary series on Putin painting a picture of Vlad that is...outside of the mainstream.

I'd add "Any Given Sunday" to the list as I think it's an excellent film and did well at the box office. (Oh, those were the days when the top Christmas movies were "Any Given Sunday" and "The Talented Mr. Ripley.")

Back to Stone, his DUI during the filming of "AGS" hurt him with the studios (I doubt the public cared), and then he failed to get "Beyond Borders" off the ground with Kevin Costner. (It was eventually made with Clive Owen & Angelina Jolie.)

The failure of "Alexander," in every possible way, knocked the wind out of his confidence as a storyteller. He's never recovered. I blame the rushed production schedule, trying to beat out the competing Alexander the Great projects, as to why the script was severely lacking. For instance, Stone had the Macedonian characters speak in Irish / Scottish accents to draw a comparison between them and the Greeks (much like how the English look down on the Irish and Scots), however, Stone failed to put any Greek characters in the film!!! Minor problem!!! Audiences were left confused as to where the story was taking place and in what time period.

Yes, "World Trade Center" was a decent success at the box office (his fifth $70 million+ film in North America), but the story was rather simplistically told. The real dramatic aspect of what happened (their rescue & recovery once they were found) was glossed over.

"W.," "Wall Street 2," "The Savages," and "Snowden" were decent/okay, but very pedestrian compared to his prime years.

The 'Me Too!' allegations made by Melissa Gilbert and his odd relationship with Russia have made him even more Persona-Non-Grada than he was before. I doubt the old man will recover before kicking the bucket.

"Pinkville" (2007) could've saved his career, but was shut down just days before filming was going to commence.

 

[Dave H]

I have the original theatrical Blu-ray (was free as part of a promotion from a Blu-ray player I bought at the time) . I've always wanted to see the DC which is often said to be quite superior. I'll be picking this up.

 

[SD_Brian]

The failure of "Alexander," in every possible way, knocked the wind out of his confidence as a storyteller. He's never recovered. I blame the rushed production schedule, trying to beat out the competing Alexander the Great projects, as to why the script was severely lacking. For instance, Stone had the Macedonian characters speak in Irish / Scottish accents to draw a comparison between them and the Greeks (much like how the English look down on the Irish and Scots), however, Stone failed to put any Greek characters in the film!!! Minor problem!!! Audiences were left confused as to where the story was taking place and in what time period.

The Ultimate Cut of Alexander is much, much, much better than what was released theatrically, and can stand beside some of Stone's best work, IMHO. It doesn't solve the accent problem unfortunately, but even though it's almost an hour longer than the theatrical cut, it feels about 6 hours shorter.

 

[PatrickDA]

The Ultimate Cut of Alexander is much, much, much better than what was released theatrically, and can stand beside some of Stone's best work, IMHO. It doesn't solve the accent problem unfortunately, but even though it's almost an hour longer than the theatrical cut, it feels about 6 hours shorter.

For the record, I've ALWAYS liked the film far more than the critics and the general public. However, after years of stubbornly defending it, I've recently had to realize there are many obvious flaws. I think some simple re-shoots and re-dubbing of a few voices could've helped a great deal. A third battle scene, some moments where the true 'greatness' of Alexander is shown to the audience and not just talked about by Hopkins, etc.

Strangely, as much location shooting as was done on that film, it has a stage-bound feel for large sections of it.

 

[everygrainofsand]

I always think the opening scene at the diner is one of the most powerfully filmed and edited scenes in all of cinema. Back in the day, it rivalled Saving Private Ryan for impact and ferocity. Not only the visual imagery, but the music: Leonard Cohen's The Miracle is one of the best opening songs in film, the way it fades into the snaking of the Regency logo, then moving into Robert Gordon's The Way I Walk on the jukebox, before L7 and Shitlist kick off, when the fighting starts, a burst of Madame Butterfly, when the knife gets thrown, to Moon Over Greene County by Dan Zane, when Mabel gets shot. Sensational, even today.

JFK's opening sequence is one of the great bits of editing, IMHO. It manipulates time and space, to such precise internal rhythms, about as masterfully as you'll see in any great film. Its visual cadence, inexorably marshalling itself towards JFK's moment of doom, so fluent; so riveting. Boy does it dazzle, doing what a book or piece of music cannot - and is proof that cinema is its own art form: a thing in and of itself, this dance of image and sound.

 

[JoshZ]

The Ultimate Cut of Alexander is much, much, much better than what was released theatrically, and can stand beside some of Stone's best work, IMHO. It doesn't solve the accent problem unfortunately, but even though it's almost an hour longer than the theatrical cut, it feels about 6 hours shorter.

I'm the odd guy who not only likes Alexander, but greatly prefers the theatrical cut over all the later reworked versions. The (mostly) linear structure in the theatrical cut flows much better than the pointless jumping around from flashbacks to flashforwards to flashbacks-within-flashforwards-within-flashbacks. To me, it feels like Stone was so humbled by the film's critical and financial failure that he started overthinking how he could "fix" it, and in doing so made a complete mess of all the parts that actually worked the first time around.

I was never bothered by the accents - no more so than the British accents in every other historical epic set in ancience Greece or Rome. However, I do feel that Colin Farrell was miscast, and it was ridiculous to have Angelina Jolie (only one year older than he is) play his mother with hardly any attempt to put old age makeup on her.

 

[SD_Brian]

I'm the odd guy who not only likes Alexander, but greatly prefers the theatrical cut over all the later reworked versions. The (mostly) linear structure in the theatrical cut flows much better than the pointless jumping around from flashbacks to flashforwards to flashbacks-within-flashforwards-within-flashbacks.

I'll have to re-watch the theatrical cut one of these days: I've not seen it since it was in the theater. My recollection is of my eyes glazing over as Anthony Hopkins droned on and on (and on), and wondering if I should be taking notes, in case there would be a test later. I also recall it being over an hour into the movie before anything of interest happened, which is one thing I think shuffling the timeline around in the revised versions really helped with.

Gosh, for a thread about Natural Born Killers, we sure are discussing a lot about Alexander!

 

[Robert Crawford]

This thread is seriously sidetracked.

 

[JoshZ]

This thread is seriously sidetracked.

At least we're still on the subject of Oliver Stone movies.

 

[Wes Candela]

This thread is seriously sidetracked.

Haha

 

[Wes Candela]

as I've grown my love for NBK has faded. But love the film. It was a landmark for me in visual storytelling. He had a lot of fun making this one.
Robert D, Tommy Kee, Tom Sizemore Juliette lewis and Woody w were all great.

Wayne Gale.

Rodney steals the movie.

great review. Thanks.

 

[Powell&Pressburger]

I’ve never seen NBK, I think I’ve seen some scenes from it… but I love Robert Richardson’s work. In fact I love his other Stone film U-Turn.

The cinematography there and the way they used the developing process, I’d love to see it on 4K. With SONY and their completely random back catalog 4K releases anything is possible. I own the Twilight Time blu and remember buying the original DVD release when it fist dropped - bought at I think their price point was like 34.99 or 29.99 retail new release DVD at the time and was NOT on sale at Sam Goody when I grabbed it.

Needless to say U-Turn was brilliant, so curious to see what I think of NBK and on 4K