The DVD day’s are numbered.

The DVD day's are numbered. Just like the Laser Disc,VHS Tapes. 4 Stars

The DVD day’s are numbered. Just like the Laser Disc,VHS Tapes. I still like my movies & TV shows in my hand…Yes I have Amazon, Hulu, Warner Archives, NetFlix, FilmStruck.
But i still buy DVD’s. Laser Disc. And have over 250 VHS tapes.
But like the VHS Tapes & Laser Disc. DVD’s there days are numbered.
It will be a time yet. But it will come.
Everything will be Digital.

Published by

Kevin Collins

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116 Comments

  1. They said CD's days were numbered back when Napster started. I bought two CDs last week. Now DVD's days are numbered because of streaming, they tell me. I just bought a 5-disc set last week.

    Discs aren't going anywhere. Not in my lifetime.

    I wonder. Are DVDs still outselling BDs? Does anyone have numbers?

  2. Cd days are numbered
    DVD are numbered
    BD and UHD are numbers
    That's OK, so are mine — as long as my number is smaller then nothing will change.

    Not buying what I can't own, so digital is just a different version of Cable TV. Not interested in paying for long term rentals

  3. I hope that they are not numbered!
    I enjoy streaming for many shows that Iwould not usually be able to see; particularly non-English speaking drama.
    However for favourites I love owning the copy to watch as the whim takes me.

  4. I've never streamed or downloaded a movie, or any kind of video material, and have no interest in ever doing that. But I love movies and have 889 of them on Blu-ray, and about 750 others, on DVD.

    And since my wife and I have yet to see about a third of our movie collection in any form, or on any format, we have plenty of material to spend our days catching up on, even if the sale of movies on disc was somehow halted tomorrow.

    Considering the sad fact that the vast majority of Americans are gravitating toward streaming and downloading the movies they view, just for the sake of convenience, I feel fairly sure that the movie studios will discontinue putting out movies, on any disc format, within 10 years, or less, from now.

    Sam's Club stores have already discontinued selling movies on disc, which is a bad sign for a devoted fan of Blu-ray, such as yours truly.

    And a couple weeks ago, Best Buy announced that its stores will eliminate the selling of music on compact disc by July 1st, so it's only a matter of time until BB stores will also be eliminating their movie sections, as Sam's Club has already done.

    So I'm very glad that we already have at least 98% of my favorite films on Blu-ray. Have movies on Blu-ray that range all the way from 1927's "Sunrise" (the only silent film besides "The Artist" that we have on disc) to 2017's "Dunkirk".

    A number of friends and relatives have regarded the emphasis that I've put on movie collecting, as having defined me as being something of a nut. But that doesn't bother me one bit. Because to me, our collection is the only real treasure that we have, and I notice that the folks of my wife's family, as well as my best friend, still all enjoy watching a good film on the big screen in our home theater.

    So to me, it will be somewhat sad to be witnessing the time when the movie studios finally end up allowing the sale of movies on disc, to fade to black.

    And BTW, IMO, even the newest, most advanced disc format for movies, UHD Blu-ray, will become extinct in the next 5 to 10 years. Because in spite of some people making claims regarding the format's supposed popularity, my own observations from often visiting 2 fairly close Best Buy stores (one in a well-to do area, the other in an average income area) are that I never see any consumers checking out the UHD Blu-ray sections of either of those Best Buy stores during the times I'm loitering around those areas.

    Of course it might help the UHD Blu-ray format if the movie studios would release more classic catalog titles on the format, instead of just concentrating on sequels to movies where part 1 sucked, with most of the rest of UHD BD releases being so heavily weighted in favor of comic book super-hero flicks. But, I guess the fact that most of today's biggest movie blockbusters contain caped super-heroes, or, are movie sequels, means that UHD BD releases must duplicate that trend.

    However, while I noticed, last Saturday, that Sony has released an UHD Blu-ray edition of its 1992 catalog title "A Few Good Men", that fact just caused me to wonder why Sony has yet to issue UHD BD releases of its much more brightly shining catalog jewels: "Lawrence of Arabia" and "Bridge On The River Kwai."

    The last 2 mentioned films, with their well deserved Oscars for the stunning outdoor cinematography that they both feature, would obviously display the advantages of UHD video, to much greater effect than a courtroom drama like "A Few Good Men", could ever hope to do.

    With the extensive restoration that "Lawrence of Arabia" has undergone, combined with the 8k scan of its original camera negative that was meticulously done, 6 years ago, to enable the film's stunning debut on 1080p Blu-ray, it's quite obvious that it is one large format film that's ideally suited for showing what UHD Blu-ray is really capable of, and is fully ready to be transferred to UHD BD.

    Is anyone going to seriously claim that film addicts have been clamoring more for an UHD Blu-ray release of "A Few Good Men", than they have for such amazing looking films as LOA, "Apocalypse Now", or "Spartacus"?

    So as long as the Hollywood studios are more preoccupied with releasing crap like "The Dark Tower" or "Smurfs 2" on UHD BD, rather than giving film addicts UHD BD editions of such large format films as LOA, "My Fair Lady", "Spartacus", or "Oklahoma", then I'll just continue to say the hell with UHD Blu-ray, since its potential as a format for presenting fine films in the highest quality possible today, seems like it has been largely wasted, so far. I wouldn't even be interested in seeing 9 out of 10 of the crappy movies that are currently being released on UHD BD, even if they could be seen on a new format at commercial movie theaters that allowed for true holographic 3D viewing that would permit audience members to actually see what was behind a movie's character, just by audience members moving their heads to view a different perspective. That's how little I think of most of the totally un-original crap that Hollywood is pumping out anymore.

    In 1971, not a single one of the top 10 movies at the American box office for that year was a sequel or a remake, unless you counted a James Bond film which actually wasn't a sequel because it had no relation to the previous Bond film, but was just a case of another Bond novel that Ian Fleming wrote, being made into a movie.

    But contrast 1971 with last year, with the top 11 of 2017's box office hits all being sequels or remakes, with the possible exception of 10th place holder, "Wonder Woman", which had been a TV series, but was not a movie remake, and which most people would not regard as a movie sequel to "Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice", which also featured Wonder Woman, because the movie "Wonder Woman" provides the origin story of that character and has nothing to do with Batman or Superman. (Actually, I feel like an idiot making these distinctions.)

    Anyhow, there you have it folks. Because it seems that the most original creation among the top 11 movie hits of 2017 was "Wonder Woman", a movie about a character who was hardly new to Americans.

    Before making one of the greatest film sequels of all time: "The Godfather Part II", Francis Coppola had to be argued into agreeing to do the film, because he was telling the executives at Paramount that if a director does a movie sequel that's tantamount to him admitting that his creativity may be drying up.

    And in reality, "The Godfather Part II" actually wasn't even a sequel, as much as it was a completion of the first movie, since, in making Godfather 2, Coppola was filming more of the book "The Godfather", which he wasn't able to include in his first Godfather film, because it simply isn't practical for a movie studio to try to release a 6 and a half hour long film to movie theaters. But, it can't be denied that Coppola's 3rd film about the Corleone family: "The Godfather Part III", was a case of Mr Coppola having made a genuine sequel, which has nothing to do with any of the events in the "The Godfather" novel, as Godfather 3 presents cheesy plot development of a kind that is so often typical of a movie sequel that shows itself to be little more than a cash-in that leeches off of the better quality material that preceded it.

    Anyway, today's serious creativity deficit in major studio movie making, actually makes me think that it wouldn't be that great of a loss if the major studios were to suddenly stop issuing more new movie releases on any of the disc formats.

    Though I admit, that it would be a genuine shame to not have some of the relatively few movies of substance, such as "Darkest Hour", not being made available to movie fans who want something a little weightier than productions that just stem from the copycat mode of movie making.

  5. How do you explain LPs and, now, cassettes coming back? I would not start buying either again, though. No streaming services for me at this time.

    Today I got a Facebook from a group that were marvelling over a new Super 8 copy of The Adventures of Robin Hood(WB Flynn 1938) in glorious color. I was staggered at that and the cost which I think was 200 pounds UK. Who would have thought. I went out of selling material on 8mm and 16mm by the 1980s as my suppliers went out of business all over the world.

  6. Mike Boone

    However, while I noticed, last Saturday, that Sony has released an UHD Blu-ray edition of its 1992 catalog title "A Few Good Men", that fact just caused me to wonder why Sony has yet to issue UHD BD releases of its much more brightly shining catalog jewels: "Lawrence of Arabia" and "Bridge On The River Kwai."

    The last 2 mentioned films, with their well deserved Oscars for the stunning outdoor cinematography that they both feature, would obviously display the advantages of UHD video, to much greater effect than a courtroom drama like "A Few Good Men", could ever hope to do.

    Have I got a surprise for you! This was released 5 months ago: https://www.amazon.com/The-Bridge-on-the-River-Kwai-4K-Blu-ray/dp/B0746Z4DLD
    Sadly even when the studios do release a classic "jewel" like Bridge on the River Kwai on UHD disc, people barely notice. 🙂

  7. Carabimero

    Discs aren't going anywhere. Not in my lifetime.

    Yup, that's pretty much me, & after my lifetime…who cares. Like many here, I'm from a generation who likes to own "stuff", but I'm sure the youngsters who don't need to own a physical copy & are happy to stream have the higher moral ground.

  8. They aren't but thanks for regurgitating the same myth this forum has been wrong about (on top of the multitudes of things it's been wrong about going all the way back to laserdisc) since 2012 anyway.

  9. I think what’s going on at Best Buy and other physical retailers is just an example of what is happening at physical retailers as a whole. Toys r us appears to be moving forward with shuttering all their physical stores. People are buying online. If anything I envision a future with very few physical retailers regardless of what they are selling. Discs will still be around but will be sold through online retailers. Go to a shopping center or mall and see how many people are actually carrying around shopping bags with purchases in them. Very few. I don’t think the lack of cds or other physical media being sold through Best Buy or target is indicative of the health of the physical media market but more as a demonstration of the overall weak health of physical retailers as a whole. These stores are in panic mode.

  10. Lord Dalek

    They aren't but thanks for regurgitating the same myth this forum has been wrong about (on top of the multitudes of things it's been wrong about going all the way back to laserdisc) since 2012 anyway.

    What do you mean by This Forum?

    From what I see it’s only one person trying to get this myth going.

  11. Interesting data. I have to admit that DVD is holding on way longer than I thought it would. I recently saw Blade Runner 2049 at Walmart in a DVD only package and just had to nod my head in disbelief.

  12. Carabimero

    I wonder. Are DVDs still outselling BDs? Does anyone have numbers?

    Yes
    From Home Media Magazine numbers

    2013 DVD $5.2B (-13% YTY) BD 2.3B (+5%)
    2014 DVD $4.6B (-11%) BD 2.1B (-8%)
    2015 DVD $3.96 (-15%) BD 2.0B (-5%)
    2016 DVD $3.4B (-14%) BD 2.0B (-0.5%)
    2017 DVD $2.8B (-17%) BD 1.9B (-7%)
    2018 DVD 327.5M (-23.1) BD 189.3M (-15.1)

    2018 through 2/24. Noting that there have been virtually no high profile releases since 1/1. The next 6 weeks will include Several Top 10 Box Office films including multiple Disney/Marvel items and/or items that should be UHD big sellers – Coco, Lady and the Tramp, Ragnarok, Justice League, Jumanji, and Star Wars.

    It wouldn't surprise me if BD/UHD ends up erasing the losses and passing up for the YTY numbers. I most interested in seeing how many weeks BD outsells DVD over the next 6 weeks and possibly the first full month-6 wk time period that BD outsells DVD. BD has outsold DVD a handful of weeks over the last couple years, but never even back to back weeks. The biggest differential in 2017 the 3 weeks it happened was $3M with Rogue One and in 2016 the single week it happened was $30 during TFA release week. BD was actually up for 2017 until Nov/Dec, but there was no new Big releases in the last 2 months to really push sales other than BF sales — Cars 3, DespMe3??

    The Coco/LatT week numbers should be out within a couple days, but I think next week number reporting Thor will be the first big indication about what's going to happen in 2018.

  13. moviepas

    How do you explain LPs and, now, cassettes coming back? I would not start buying either again, though. No streaming services for me at this time.

    Today I got a Facebook from a group that were marvelling over a new Super 8 copy of The Adventures of Robin Hood(WB Flynn 1938) in glorious color. I was staggered at that and the cost which I think was 200 pounds UK. Who would have thought. I went out of selling material on 8mm and 16mm by the 1980s as my suppliers went out of business all over the world.

    IMO, LPs making a comeback is due to people being conned into believing that LPs feature "more natural sound quality" than a high performance digital medium, such as CD.

    Many of the early CDs did get a bad name, and justifiably so, from audiophiles, for having a hard, brittle, and sometimes, even harsh sound, because the folks recording them had not yet adjusted their recording techniques for the much different requirements demanded by digital recording, as opposed to making analogue recordings.

    Years ago, NPR featured a discussion by a music producer, along with a musician who had many of his works recorded. The 2 gentleman were both asked which medium they would prefer to have presenting their work: LP records or CDs. And both men quickly answered that CD was their definite preference.

    And during that discussion, the statement was made that people who prefer a modern recording on vinyl to its CD counterpart, just prefer some type of particular sound coloration that LPs provide which is farther away from accurately reproducing the sound of instruments, than a good CD recording is.

    Also, it was mentioned that even the very best phono cartridges used to play LPs display levels of harmonic distortion many times higher than what is found on quality CDs. But some forms of harmonic distortion actually make music sound more pleasant to some people. And with LPs, surface noise and static pops are heard, which are audio drawbacks that are totally missing on quality CDs.

    And of course, keen eared listeners, with high performance audio systems, are able to notice that LPs, after being played 6 to 10 times, or so, no longer sound quite as good as they did on the first playing, due to the slight amount of wear that even a high quality stylus causes to an LP, every time that the LP is played.

  14. skylark68

    I think what’s going on at Best Buy and other physical retailers is just an example of what is happening at physical retailers as a whole. Toys r us appears to be moving forward with shuttering all their physical stores. People are buying online. If anything I envision a future with very few physical retailers regardless of what they are selling. Discs will still be around but will be sold through online retailers. Go to a shopping center or mall and see how many people are actually carrying around shopping bags with purchases in them. Very few. I don’t think the lack of cds or other physical media being sold through Best Buy or target is indicative of the health of the physical media market but more as a demonstration of the overall weak health of physical retailers as a whole. These stores are in panic mode.

    You may be right. On the other hand, AFAIK, every movie studio already gave up on releasing any more of their creations on one disc format: Laserdisc. My stepson just told me that for only $150 he can add more storage to his computer that will hold 4 to 5 thousand movies at Blu-ray quality. He said that in about 15 to 20 minutes he can download an entire Blu-ray. Now he usually downloads movies without the special features found on Blu-rays, but he said that if he cared about having those extras, there's a source available that would enable him to download Blu-ray, complete with its special features. But since leaving out the special features saves space, he prefers to download his movies that way.

    Yup, with him downloading so much material, at no cost, my stepson is one of those who thinks that I'm somewhat nuts to have spent about 15 to 20 thousand dollars on Blu-rays and DVDs. And of course it does little good for me to point out that if everyone was grabbing movies through free downloads, before long, there wouldn't be any movie industry to create that material.

    Anyhow, I hope that my fellow HTF members who predict a very long life for movies on disc, eventually prove to have had a more accurate vision of the future than the one I offered in another post. But increasingly fast internet speeds constantly becoming available to more Americans sure have me concerned that downloading and streaming will become so widespread that the movie studios will see the shrinking number of people buying discs as no more worthwhile to keep servicing, than it became to keep providing Laserdiscs.

  15. A long, long, time ago i had a vhs player like everybody else and bought a few tapes but noticed laserdisc movies and the ones released by Criterion were letterboxed when needed so i stopped buying vhs and started to buy laserdisc. Still have my 3 players and over 300 discs with most being Criterion or box sets like Star Wars or The Godfather and still watch them.

  16. Most of the dvd-video patents have already expired, or will be soon. (Most of the remaining patents are related to burned dvd r/rw type discs + playback).

    So over the next several years, in principle anybody can manufacture a dvd player/drive without having to pay any dvd specific royalties. (Though one might still have to pay royalties on something like hdmi or sata).

  17. What could possibly happen to laserdisc at this point? Bit rot may kill some discs and others may be tossed by their owners, while old age will kill a few more machines. But the format is already commercially dead.

    I don't see the significance of 5 years from now for that format, where as DVD could sadly be nearly out of stores with new releases concluded by the big publishers.

  18. Well, I do wish the *DVD*'s days were numbered, as Blu-Ray is a clearly better format. It makes no sense to keep putting new movies out on DVD, especially when you can't even buy a non-HD TV anymore. Blu-Ray players don't even cost that much anymore, with cheapest ones being in the $50 range. It might make sense to still use DVD for stuff shot on standard-def video, but axing movies on them would certainly make for more shelf space. (And yes, I know for most titles DVDs still sell more overall than Blu-Ray. That doesn't make it right, and shows how uninformed the general public is. Some people were still buying VHS tapes as long as they kept coming out, but they finally put those to bed.)

  19. I have been hoping that DVD would finally go away for a number of years now and it still has not happened. There just seems to be to many people buying them. Personally I have said that the days of DVD only releases should have died and the only way one should be able to get DVD’s is bundled with Blu-ray releases. IMHO we have consumers that feel DVD is good enough and far to many titles are super cheap to purchase. The only thing keeping me from really growing my Blu-ray and 4K collections as big as I would like is finances! My focus right now is movies so unfortunately music has taken a back seat as finances are tight. Otherwise I would be picking up CD’s, SACD’s, DVD-A and new and used vinyl records and be building a much bigger movie library! I see next to no value in buying movies digitally via streaming or download! Yes you can still see and enjoy the movie but there is no real value in it, no collectability and there is nothing there to show for you money spent. There is something to be said about ownership and being able to see and pick up what you have purchased beyond a superior experience in video playback and audio playback quality.

    I have purchased movies online but IMHO as long as the retailer has it locally it can be much cheaper and much faster to just get in the car and drive over and pick it up. Some items should be purchased in a brick & mortar store unless you have already got all the information you need to make the purchase. There is also something to be said about developing a relationship with a salesperson instead of the inhuman and impersonal side of buying online. If you buy enough gear a salesperson gets to know you and you can be more likely to get a better deal when always dealing with one person. You can go in and see and hear the hardware and get a more tactile experience checking out the gear. Online has it place but if retailers are replaced by online fulfillment centers it will not be a step up or an improvement IMHO. This is another reason I miss record stores because there was an interaction and feedback you can not really get buying online. Buying online is impersonal and lacks interaction with another human being! All you do is click on something and check out and that is it. Two companies that will make out like bandits with the upsurge of online shopping will be UPS and FedEx! Maybe we will see less theft in retail if it ever goes to mostly online shopping.

    And like I said before in other threads I have had a netflix account but I also do not have the finances to have all these different sources for movies! I have HBO, Starz and a few months ago actually got rid of Netflix until finances improve. If finances get worse instead of better HBO and Starz will go as well. But I do not watch so much content and spend that much time to justify spending money on Amazon, Hulu, Warner Archives and FilmStruck. Besides I am more interested in watching movies on blu-ray or 4K UHD with what I feel is a superior delivery platform and also getting lossless audio that most movies still do not offer streaming. I do not purchase digital movies! I might register the digital code but honestly only do it for a free back up just in case the disc goes bad or in the rare chance my home gets broken into. I have occasionally paid for a movie on demand but I do not do that very often. I am more likely to DVR an HD movie from HBO or Starz or some premium channel than I am to stream a movie from a online site especially one that has a monthly fee. Anyway sooner or later DVD will finally be put to pasture but I will believe it when I see it. And as long as physical discs are available I will keep buying movies and music and when that ends I will just enjoy what I have and enjoy movies via HBO, Starz and even Netflix when finances improve because I seriously would rather buy movies on disc than even pay for Netflix!

  20. I don’t think DVDs days are numbered, on the contrary you can now buy DVDs for what they are truly worth, about 1$ apiece.
    However I would say VHS days are truly numbered.

  21. Hey, I looked up Amazon Australia’s new store tonight for a friend and they are selling packs of 4 VHS Head Cleaners(a tape with spray fluid) for $50. I wouldn’t go back there again. Love my DVDs, Blu Rays and UHDs and I have even gone to the flickers across the road recently for the first time in years(I have a giftcard for some films and got a birthday deal) and saw I, Tonya and Lady Bird. Liked them both and I, Tonya is coming on a US Import Blu Ray. Morning session not many there but I was happy a seat in a row to myself an I had my lunch in there. I buy DVD blanks for You Tube compilations for A$20 a 100 pack. unchanged for years in price.

  22. Billy Batson

    Yup, that's pretty much me, & after my lifetime…who cares. Like many here, I'm from a generation who likes to own "stuff", but I'm sure the youngsters who don't need to own a physical copy & are happy to stream have the higher moral ground.

    I'm not sure "youngsters" have the moral high ground, but they certainly have consumer high ground, and that is what rules the day. I like holding my books, CDs, and DVDs; that will never change. I've never streamed or downloaded, and I never will.

  23. I’m *still* not convinced that streaming will totally kill physical media.

    As soon as the majority of high-speed internet providers start imposing caps (and Comcast is leading the way here) it will begin to be very painful to view all those movies you “own” on services like VUDU and iTunes. In essence, paying the penalties for exceeding the caps will make it seem like you’re being forced to pay again for an item you “own”. This issue could be escalated due to the end of Net Neutrality which will allow ISPs to charge surcharges for high volume data sites like Netflix, VUDU, and Amazon Prime.

    When “Joe Six Pack” figures out that you pay for physical media just once; but that Digital “ownership” requires paying penalties for cap overages and surcharges for high volume entertainment sites, then there will be a huge resurgence back to DVD, Blu-ray, and 4K/UHD discs.

    I see this playing out this way over the next 18-24 months.

  24. Mike Boone

    Also, it was mentioned that even the very best phono cartridges used to play LPs display levels of harmonic distortion many times higher than what is found on quality CDs. But some forms of harmonic distortion actually make music sound more pleasant to some people. And with LPs, surface noise and static pops are heard, which are audio drawbacks that are totally missing on quality CDs.

    Aye, there's the rub: quality CDs. Some of them were not of high-quality, and the loudness wars of the late 1990s made good music sound bad and bad music sound worse.

  25. Mike Boone

    Also, it was mentioned that even the very best phono cartridges used to play LPs display levels of harmonic distortion many times higher than what is found on quality CDs. But some forms of harmonic distortion actually make music sound more pleasant to some people. And with LPs, surface noise and static pops are heard, which are audio drawbacks that are totally missing on quality CDs.

    Aye, there's the rub: quality CDs. Some of them were not of high-quality, and the loudness wars of the late 1990s made good music sound bad and bad music sound worse.

  26. Joseph Bolus

    I’m *still* not convinced that streaming will totally kill physical media.

    As soon as the majority of high-speed internet providers start imposing caps (and Comcast is leading the way here) it will begin to be very painful to view all those movies you “own” on services like VUDU and iTunes. In essence, paying the penalties for exceeding the caps will make it seem like you’re being forced to pay again for an item you “own”. This issue could be escalated due to the end of Net Neutrality which will allow ISPs to charge surcharges for high volume data sites like Netflix, VUDU, and Amazon Prime.

    When “Joe Six Pack” figures out that you pay for physical media just once; but that Digital “ownership” requires paying penalties for cap overages and surcharges for high volume entertainment sites, then there will be a huge resurgence back to DVD, Blu-ray, and 4K/UHD discs.

    I see this playing out this way over the next 18-24 months.

    I've been saying roughly the same thing for years. Add to that what happens when power goes out and you can't stream, but your laptop has a full charged battery plus when a film gets pulled digitally (vs. a physical copy on the shelf), and this is all going to be a disaster. Physical will never go away. It might wane, but it will always be around.

  27. My first focus will be 4K UHD Blu-ray then 1080p blu-ray and for music I will ether start buying used CD’s to save money or vinyl. I don’t care if the digital version comes out 2 months before the disc I will not be buying it!

  28. Jason_V

    I've been saying roughly the same thing for years. Add to that what happens when power goes out and you can't stream, but your laptop has a full charged battery plus when a film gets pulled digitally (vs. a physical copy on the shelf), and this is all going to be a disaster. Physical will never go away. It might wane, but it will always be around.

    The physical cd/dvd/bluray copy on the shelf eventually becomes useless too if electricity isn't available for a prolonged period of time.

    That battery can only last so long, unless one also has a gasoline power generator. Though when that gasoline finally runs out ….. 🙂

    In such a scenario of a prolonged blackout (or apocalypse), the only thing on my shelves which are still usable (besides food ) would be paper books.

  29. jcroy

    The physical cd/dvd/bluray copy on the shelf eventually becomes useless too if electricity isn't available for a prolonged period of time.

    That battery can only last so long, unless one also has a gasoline power generator. Though when that gasoline finally runs out ….. 🙂

    In such a scenario of a prolonged blackout (or apocalypse), the only thing on my shelves which are still usable (besides food ) would be paper books.

    Sure. No doubt. Streaming is open to a lack of internet, usage caps, studios pulling licenses, changing versions, changing resolutions, being pulled all together. My main point is the only thing that affects the physical copy is the disc literally falling apart.

  30. Paper also has a secondary (or tertiary) purpose of providing heating without excessively poisonous fumes. 🙂

    I would be somewhat reluctant to use cds, dvds, or blurays as tinder or "firewood". If one has ever tried burning plastic, you'll know all about the noxious fumes. 😉

  31. jcroy

    The physical cd/dvd/bluray copy on the shelf eventually becomes useless too if electricity isn't available for a prolonged period of time. In such a scenario of a prolonged blackout (or apocalypse), the only thing on my shelves which are still usable (besides food ) would be paper books.

    I have a wind up Victrola and shelves full of 78s. We'll have good music at the end of the world at my house!

  32. bigshot

    I have a wind up Victrola and shelves full of 78s. We'll have good music at the end of the world at my house!

    An artifact piece by today's standards? 🙂

    If one is musician, a grand piano would be still be usable with no electricity.

  33. jcroy

    The physical cd/dvd/bluray copy on the shelf eventually becomes useless too if electricity isn't available for a prolonged period of time.

    That battery can only last so long, unless one also has a gasoline power generator. Though when that gasoline finally runs out ….. 🙂

    In such a scenario of a prolonged blackout (or apocalypse), the only thing on my shelves which are still usable (besides food ) would be paper books.

    Until you break your glasses

  34. jcroy

    The physical cd/dvd/bluray copy on the shelf eventually becomes useless too if electricity isn't available for a prolonged period of time.

    That battery can only last so long, unless one also has a gasoline power generator. Though when that gasoline finally runs out ….. 🙂

    In such a scenario of a prolonged blackout (or apocalypse), the only thing on my shelves which are still usable (besides food ) would be paper books.

    Until you break your glasses

  35. Mike Boone

    IMO, LPs making a comeback is due to people being conned into believing that LPs feature "more natural sound quality" than a high performance digital medium, such as CD.

    Many of the early CDs did get a bad name, and justifiably so, from audiophiles, for having a hard, brittle, and sometimes, even harsh sound, because the folks recording them had not yet adjusted their recording techniques for the much different requirements demanded by digital recording, as opposed to making analogue recordings.

    Years ago, NPR featured a discussion by a music producer, along with a musician who had many of his works recorded. The 2 gentleman were both asked which medium they would prefer to have presenting their work: LP records or CDs. And both men quickly answered that CD was their definite preference.

    And during that discussion, the statement was made that people who prefer a modern recording on vinyl to its CD counterpart, just prefer some type of particular sound coloration that LPs provide which is farther away from accurately reproducing the sound of instruments, than a good CD recording is.

    Also, it was mentioned that even the very best phono cartridges used to play LPs display levels of harmonic distortion many times higher than what is found on quality CDs. But some forms of harmonic distortion actually make music sound more pleasant to some people. And with LPs, surface noise and static pops are heard, which are audio drawbacks that are totally missing on quality CDs.

    And of course, keen eared listeners, with high performance audio systems, are able to notice that LPs, after being played 6 to 10 times, or so, no longer sound quite as good as they did on the first playing, due to the slight amount of wear that even a high quality stylus causes to an LP, every time that the LP is played.

    Not to mention less dynamic range, limited bandwith, groove can't support low frequencies. Never will you hear 16hz pipe organ note on vinyl.

  36. This is just plain wrong and unfortunately it’s uninformed comments like that that bring forums into disrepute

    Who cares if a couple of silly ignoramusus think CD outperforms vinyl/ analog.

    I’m guessing you have little studio experience. I’ve worked in some of the best! I’ve produced/ mixed multi platinum lps!

    I also have a top notch reference level playback system. Both vinyl and CD

    I’ve done HUNDREDS of comparisons over 15 – 20yrs. Vinyl is better than CD it’s that simple! BUT by and large older original vinyl sounds better than pretty much all remasters I’ve evaluated.

    And please. No guff about vinyl diminishes after a few plays. Just de grunge the needle for goodness sake and keep the vinyl clean

    Mike Boone

    IMO, LPs making a comeback is due to people being conned into believing that LPs feature "more natural sound quality" than a high performance digital medium, such as CD.

    Many of the early CDs did get a bad name, and justifiably so, from audiophiles, for having a hard, brittle, and sometimes, even harsh sound, because the folks recording them had not yet adjusted their recording techniques for the much different requirements demanded by digital recording, as opposed to making analogue recordings.

    Years ago, NPR featured a discussion by a music producer, along with a musician who had many of his works recorded. The 2 gentleman were both asked which medium they would prefer to have presenting their work: LP records or CDs. And both men quickly answered that CD was their definite preference.

    And during that discussion, the statement was made that people who prefer a modern recording on vinyl to its CD counterpart, just prefer some type of particular sound coloration that LPs provide which is farther away from accurately reproducing the sound of instruments, than a good CD recording is.

    Also, it was mentioned that even the very best phono cartridges used to play LPs display levels of harmonic distortion many times higher than what is found on quality CDs. But some forms of harmonic distortion actually make music sound more pleasant to some people. And with LPs, surface noise and static pops are heard, which are audio drawbacks that are totally missing on quality CDs.

    And of course, keen eared listeners, with high performance audio systems, are able to notice that LPs, after being played 6 to 10 times, or so, no longer sound quite as good as they did on the first playing, due to the slight amount of wear that even a high quality stylus causes to an LP, every time that the LP is played.

  37. Bob Bielski

    Not to mention less dynamic range, limited bandwith, groove can't support low frequencies. Never will you hear 16hz pipe organ note on vinyl.

    More nonsense. Clearly you’ve never experienced quality sound from a reference system. Less dynamic? Hahahaha. No chance. Vinyl outperforms CD. That’s all!

  38. Mike Boone

    IMO, LPs making a comeback is due to people being conned into believing that LPs feature "more natural sound quality" than a high performance digital medium, such as CD.

    Many of the early CDs did get a bad name, and justifiably so, from audiophiles, for having a hard, brittle, and sometimes, even harsh sound, because the folks recording them had not yet adjusted their recording techniques for the much different requirements demanded by digital recording, as opposed to making analogue recordings.

    Years ago, NPR featured a discussion by a music producer, along with a musician who had many of his works recorded. The 2 gentleman were both asked which medium they would prefer to have presenting their work: LP records or CDs. And both men quickly answered that CD was their definite preference.

    And during that discussion, the statement was made that people who prefer a modern recording on vinyl to its CD counterpart, just prefer some type of particular sound coloration that LPs provide which is farther away from accurately reproducing the sound of instruments, than a good CD recording is.

    Also, it was mentioned that even the very best phono cartridges used to play LPs display levels of harmonic distortion many times higher than what is found on quality CDs. But some forms of harmonic distortion actually make music sound more pleasant to some people. And with LPs, surface noise and static pops are heard, which are audio drawbacks that are totally missing on quality CDs.

    And of course, keen eared listeners, with high performance audio systems, are able to notice that LPs, after being played 6 to 10 times, or so, no longer sound quite as good as they did on the first playing, due to the slight amount of wear that even a high quality stylus causes to an LP, every time that the LP is played.

    Agree with everything except the final paragraph, 6-10 times? Unless you're using a AT60 with a boulder on top of the cartridge, I'm going to call BS on this one. Is this from a controlled experiment? Are the terms "quite as good" and "slight amount of wear" defined and measurable? Were the LPs cleaned or just played through 6-10 times? What differences were noted between those that claimed they could hear a difference by the 6th play through vs. those that couldn't until the 10th play through?

    "When groove wear does occur, it occurs much faster at high frequencies than at low frequencies. For modern styli this is not as much of a concern, and tests have been conducted which deonstrate that a record can be played up to 1000 times before there is any measurable increase in distortion as a result of record wear."
    http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Myths_(Vinyl)

    In agreeing with your opening paragraph I'll note that modern releases in my experience are often just the same loudness wars mastering cut to vinyl, but in some cases, and this has to be considered on a case by case basis, the LP is the only version that has a more dynamic mastering. So even with its colorations and imperfections, the vinyl may provide the best listening experience. Ted Jensen mastered Dave Matthews Band's "Crash" in 1996 and until last year that was the only version, last year Sony Legacy sent the original analog master to Chris Bellman to cut and master the 20th anniversary edition which is only available on vinyl. The vinyl to my ears is a much more enjoyable listen without the copious amounts of clipping found on the CD. This isn't the fault of the medium, but of the mastering engineer. I love CD and consider myself format agnostic, but I'll go where the mastering is best whether that's CD, vinyl, Blu-ray, DVD-A/V, SACD, digital download, I'm all good.

    The CD of Red Hot Chili Peppers' Stadium Arcadium was mastered very aggressively by Vlado Meller. The 4LP vinyl release was separately mastered by Steve Hoffman from the original analog stereo master, like Crash it's also a more enjoyable listening experience than the loudness wars-victim digital releases and the vinyl is the ONLY way to hear that mastering.

    I love Ryan Adams' Love is Hell but boy is it way too loud, so I was very excited in 2014 when MOFI released a 3LP set under their Silver Series with the main album being cut from the original stereo master analog tapes. It was $65 but it's gorgeous and sounds so much better than the CD due to the mastering differences. Recently a fully dynamic 24-bit mastering was released, it too sounds so much better than the original CD release. While I enjoy listening to vinyl, I can't deny that had I known a few years later an audiophile digital mastering was coming I would have saved the $65 and bought the $25 digital version. Format agnostic. 🙂

  39. cableman

    More nonsense. Clearly you’ve never experienced quality sound from a reference system. Less dynamic? Hahahaha. No chance. Vinyl outperforms CD. That’s all!

    Sorry just scientific facts.
    That's all!!

  40. I have a Yamaha PX3 linear tracking table and used Thorens as well, went through class A amp and used ADS L1230s to monitor. Not the worse set up. Still some CDs had terrible sound because they were mastered by brain dead engineers with poor hearing.

  41. The first batch of CDs sounded terrible because the recording engineers were still applying the RIAA curve required by phonograph records. Kind of like the first few years of HD football broadcasts which would show 10 yards of turf behind a QB that was under center, with very little of the secondary, as they were using old techniques.

    The other superiority of CDs to records is the well documented fact that you can only fit so much information on vinyl. The higher the dynamic range, the fewer grooves will fit onto it. CDs have always had a superior dynamic range to vinyl, unless the consumer was getting ripped off by having 10 minutes of music per side.

  42. Bob Bielski

    Ed Mietner pointed out the jitter stuff and the solution to eliminate the distortion.

    Jitter in the level that it appears in even the cheapest home audio equipment is an order of magnitude below being audible. Jitter is a hoodoo designed by high end DAC manufacturers to make you spend more than you need to. Why waste time and energy minimizing distortion you can't possibly hear? Better to attend to things you actually *can* hear.

    Vinyl is the equivalent of 11 / 30 digital, with added noise from surface noise. 16 / 44.1 (CD sound) is audibly transparent, meaning it can reproduce everything human ears can hear with room to spare. Vinyl is capable of sounding very good. But CD is beyond that.

  43. bigshot

    Vinyl is the equivalent of 11 / 30 digital, with added noise from surface noise. 16 / 44.1 (CD sound) is audibly transparent

    Where does this 11 bits figure come from exactly? (In comparison to the 16 bits from audio cds).

  44. bigshot

    Jitter in the level that it appears in even the cheapest home audio equipment is an order of magnitude below being audible. Jitter is a hoodoo designed by high end DAC manufacturers to make you spend more than you need to. Why waste time and energy minimizing distortion you can't possibly hear? Better to attend to things you actually *can* hear.

    Some folks are willing to pay extra $$$$ for "idealized" / "technical" symmetry and "purity" ?

    Whether or not something like this is audible in a blind a/b test, is an entirely different matter altogether. 🙂

  45. I doubt anyone is going to change anyone else's mind on the CD vs. vinyl debate.

    But it's also really not on topic for this thread about the future of DVD (or physical media, in general).

    We should probably move on.

  46. Bob Bielski

    Sorry just scientific facts.
    That's all!!

    Lol. So your ‘ measurements ‘ are a ‘measure’ of musicality. Lol lol lol.

    I suggest you improve ur playback system then actually LISTEN to vinyl versus CD. I have!

    Not once does CD outperform vinyl musically-other than on a Test bench- and they sound pretty crap musically speaking lol

    I know Ed Meitner. I use his gear and can confirm it’s quality. But compared to vinyl of the same album-not even close!

    I’ve done actual comparisons hundereds of times. Have u?

  47. mrjktcvs

    The first batch of CDs sounded terrible because the recording engineers were still applying the RIAA curve required by phonograph records. Kind of like the first few years of HD football broadcasts which would show 10 yards of turf behind a QB that was under center, with very little of the secondary, as they were using old techniques.

    The other superiority of CDs to records is the well documented fact that you can only fit so much information on vinyl. The higher the dynamic range, the fewer grooves will fit onto it. CDs have always had a superior dynamic range to vinyl, unless the consumer was getting ripped off by having 10 minutes of music per side.

    Hilarious. Other than spouting and regurgitating the usual speil have u guys ever done ANY comparative evaluation. I’m guessing not.

    Forget ur measuring devices they prove zilch. Do the heavy lift and stop promulgating easily refutable nonsense.

  48. Mike Frezon

    I doubt anyone is going to change anyone else's mind on the CD vs. vinyl debate.

    But it's also really not on topic for this thread about the future of DVD (or physical media, in general).

    We should probably move on.

    Okay. So much for the laid-back approach.

    We ARE moving on (from the Vinyl vs. CD debate). Now.

  49. Mike Boone

    You may be right. On the other hand, AFAIK, every movie studio already gave up on releasing any more of their creations on one disc format: Laserdisc. My stepson just told me that for only $150 he can add more storage to his computer that will hold 4 to 5 thousand movies at Blu-ray quality. He said that in about 15 to 20 minutes he can download an entire Blu-ray. Now he usually downloads movies without the special features found on Blu-rays, but he said that if he cared about having those extras, there's a source available that would enable him to download Blu-ray, complete with its special features. But since leaving out the special features saves space, he prefers to download his movies that way.

    Yup, with him downloading so much material, at no cost, my stepson is one of those who thinks that I'm somewhat nuts to have spent about 15 to 20 thousand dollars on Blu-rays and DVDs. And of course it does little good for me to point out that if everyone was grabbing movies through free downloads, before long, there wouldn't be any movie industry to create that material.

    Anyhow, I hope that my fellow HTF members who predict a very long life for movies on disc, eventually prove to have had a more accurate vision of the future than the one I offered in another post. But increasingly fast internet speeds constantly becoming available to more Americans sure have me concerned that downloading and streaming will become so widespread that the movie studios will see the shrinking number of people buying discs as no more worthwhile to keep servicing, than it became to keep providing Laserdiscs.

    Laserdisc was always a "niche" medium but was a definite quality upgrade from VHS tape, which was the only commercial movie format at the time. Many laserdiscs, however, suffered from poor mastering and the players were fairly "pricey" for a good one but Laserdisc was indeed the precursor to DVD which caught on more quickly. I have several LDs, however, which still look very good, such as "Top Gun" which was mastered carefully and featured Dolby "AC-3" surround sound. Every format it seems has a "heyday" , but we shouldn't ignore them just because they have been around for awhile. I have several movies on LD which were never released on DVD and, of course there are many movies which have never been released on BluRay and there will been even more movies which will never get released on UHDBD. I always keep my discs because it seems to me that streaming is just a "temporary" medium.

  50. I have just deleted 18 posts in this thread…all dedicated to the "CD vs. Vinyl" debate.

    I asked twice for the debate to stop. It did not.

    They are gone now.

    If the debate resumes, there will be consequences for those who pursue it.

    We already have threads upon threads which touch upon that discussion in our music subforum. That discussion does NOT fit the topic of this thread.

  51. Mike Boone

    I've never streamed or downloaded a movie, or any kind of video material, and have no interest in ever doing that. But I love movies and have 889 of them on Blu-ray, and about 750 others, on DVD.

    And since my wife and I have yet to see about a third of our movie collection in any form, or on any format, we have plenty of material to spend our days catching up on, even if the sale of movies on disc was somehow halted tomorrow.

    Considering the sad fact that the vast majority of Americans are gravitating toward streaming and downloading the movies they view, just for the sake of convenience, I feel fairly sure that the movie studios will discontinue putting out movies, on any disc format, within 10 years, or less, from now.

    Sam's Club stores have already discontinued selling movies on disc, which is a bad sign for a devoted fan of Blu-ray, such as yours truly.

    And a couple weeks ago, Best Buy announced that its stores will eliminate the selling of music on compact disc by July 1st, so it's only a matter of time until BB stores will also be eliminating their movie sections, as Sam's Club has already done.

    So I'm very glad that we already have at least 98% of my favorite films on Blu-ray. Have movies on Blu-ray that range all the way from 1927's "Sunrise" (the only silent film besides "The Artist" that we have on disc) to 2017's "Dunkirk".

    A number of friends and relatives have regarded the emphasis that I've put on movie collecting, as having defined me as being something of a nut. But that doesn't bother me one bit. Because to me, our collection is the only real treasure that we have, and I notice that the folks of my wife's family, as well as my best friend, still all enjoy watching a good film on the big screen in our home theater.

    So to me, it will be somewhat sad to be witnessing the time when the movie studios finally end up allowing the sale of movies on disc, to fade to black.

    And BTW, IMO, even the newest, most advanced disc format for movies, UHD Blu-ray, will become extinct in the next 5 to 10 years. Because in spite of some people making claims regarding the format's supposed popularity, my own observations from often visiting 2 fairly close Best Buy stores (one in a well-to do area, the other in an average income area) are that I never see any consumers checking out the UHD Blu-ray sections of either of those Best Buy stores during the times I'm loitering around those areas.

    Of course it might help the UHD Blu-ray format if the movie studios would release more classic catalog titles on the format, instead of just concentrating on sequels to movies where part 1 sucked, with most of the rest of UHD BD releases being so heavily weighted in favor of comic book super-hero flicks. But, I guess the fact that most of today's biggest movie blockbusters contain caped super-heroes, or, are movie sequels, means that UHD BD releases must duplicate that trend.

    However, while I noticed, last Saturday, that Sony has released an UHD Blu-ray edition of its 1992 catalog title "A Few Good Men", that fact just caused me to wonder why Sony has yet to issue UHD BD releases of its much more brightly shining catalog jewels: "Lawrence of Arabia" and "Bridge On The River Kwai."

    The last 2 mentioned films, with their well deserved Oscars for the stunning outdoor cinematography that they both feature, would obviously display the advantages of UHD video, to much greater effect than a courtroom drama like "A Few Good Men", could ever hope to do.

    With the extensive restoration that "Lawrence of Arabia" has undergone, combined with the 8k scan of its original camera negative that was meticulously done, 6 years ago, to enable the film's stunning debut on 1080p Blu-ray, it's quite obvious that it is one large format film that's ideally suited for showing what UHD Blu-ray is really capable of, and is fully ready to be transferred to UHD BD.

    Is anyone going to seriously claim that film addicts have been clamoring more for an UHD Blu-ray release of "A Few Good Men", than they have for such amazing looking films as LOA, "Apocalypse Now", or "Spartacus"?

    So as long as the Hollywood studios are more preoccupied with releasing crap like "The Dark Tower" or "Smurfs 2" on UHD BD, rather than giving film addicts UHD BD editions of such large format films as LOA, "My Fair Lady", "Spartacus", or "Oklahoma", then I'll just continue to say the hell with UHD Blu-ray, since its potential as a format for presenting fine films in the highest quality possible today, seems like it has been largely wasted, so far. I wouldn't even be interested in seeing 9 out of 10 of the crappy movies that are currently being released on UHD BD, even if they could be seen on a new format at commercial movie theaters that allowed for true holographic 3D viewing that would permit audience members to actually see what was behind a movie's character, just by audience members moving their heads to view a different perspective. That's how little I think of most of the totally un-original crap that Hollywood is pumping out anymore.

    In 1971, not a single one of the top 10 movies at the American box office for that year was a sequel or a remake, unless you counted a James Bond film which actually wasn't a sequel because it had no relation to the previous Bond film, but was just a case of another Bond novel that Ian Fleming wrote, being made into a movie.

    But contrast 1971 with last year, with the top 11 of 2017's box office hits all being sequels or remakes, with the possible exception of 10th place holder, "Wonder Woman", which had been a TV series, but was not a movie remake, and which most people would not regard as a movie sequel to "Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice", which also featured Wonder Woman, because the movie "Wonder Woman" provides the origin story of that character and has nothing to do with Batman or Superman. (Actually, I feel like an idiot making these distinctions.)

    Anyhow, there you have it folks. Because it seems that the most original creation among the top 11 movie hits of 2017 was "Wonder Woman", a movie about a character who was hardly new to Americans.

    Before making one of the greatest film sequels of all time: "The Godfather Part II", Francis Coppola had to be argued into agreeing to do the film, because he was telling the executives at Paramount that if a director does a movie sequel that's tantamount to him admitting that his creativity may be drying up.

    And in reality, "The Godfather Part II" actually wasn't even a sequel, as much as it was a completion of the first movie, since, in making Godfather 2, Coppola was filming more of the book "The Godfather", which he wasn't able to include in his first Godfather film, because it simply isn't practical for a movie studio to try to release a 6 and a half hour long film to movie theaters. But, it can't be denied that Coppola's 3rd film about the Corleone family: "The Godfather Part III", was a case of Mr Coppola having made a genuine sequel, which has nothing to do with any of the events in the "The Godfather" novel, as Godfather 3 presents cheesy plot development of a kind that is so often typical of a movie sequel that shows itself to be little more than a cash-in that leeches off of the better quality material that preceded it.

    Anyway, today's serious creativity deficit in major studio movie making, actually makes me think that it wouldn't be that great of a loss if the major studios were to suddenly stop issuing more new movie releases on any of the disc formats.

    Though I admit, that it would be a genuine shame to not have some of the relatively few movies of substance, such as "Darkest Hour", not being made available to movie fans who want something a little weightier than productions that just stem from the copycat mode of movie making.

    Wow!!!!!
    Its all about money not art. Yes they could do it right to take care of the fans that pay there way but profit is king. I agree with your total post. I am almost paranoid that if we own media we might not be plugged in and sucking at the money drain for content supply. I like the idea of you tube having all. Still nice to own superior formats that last and look better then compressed crap to save bandwidth on cable suppliers. like https://www.hometheaterforum.com/community/members/segarolow86-gmail-com.396588/
    I still own 8 tracks and so forth. no mono lps though. It is moving forward but keeping the old stuff. It is nostalgia and protecting the old school way of things. Not for nothing but the new gear is sooo expensive and cheap build how the F did this happen ? I can roll with the changes but not just for new complete library of existing media. But when there is a significant improvement it does reach out and grab you. Every thing should be backwards compatible to help the less than affluent. and to play back older content. HELLO we are not all rich.
    But talking to you all right now is because of the internet. It has taken a toll on a lot of jobs, newspapers, books, discs, and so forth not to mention one on one social interaction. We are in a transition where cheaper quicker and more profit is reeking havoc. We have to get ready for old age and independence by making wise decisions now so when we lose control over content we still have enough to get us through those cold winter nights. Lack of Brick and Mortar stores are going to kill the manufactures sales, and reputations. System is going to teeter on robotic work forces and no hands on or eyes on or ears on. In this one case I am glad I am older AND wiser to what is to come. Sorry if i offended any one earlier in the day about the vinyl vs cd rant. All formats matter as far a content goes and playback quality sometimes means shixx if you can't get the latest and more perfect. I loved Laserdisc. I got my first test disc A Visual Standard and had a lot of fun tweaking my Proton 625 CRT. Also bumped into Reference Recordings thanks to that. Signal quality is all over the place anyway. No Fn standards for us consumers, but it is somewhat of an art. I used to imagine having the system I mean Audio calibrate it self and it came true. With room correction software and my latest thought is wearing ear buds and using them as the calibrated mic to tweak the system at seating position. I am a little crazy but imagine the improvement using yourself as a dummy head for binaural and inserting plugs as microphones into your ear and then let the room correction go to town. Might not work but could get it all down to a pair of headphones rather than a million high cost speakers.

  52. Over the last ten days, I haven't watch a single Blu-ray, but I have stream and viewed several DVDs because those were the only ways I could watch those particular films. For me, it's not about the video format, but instead about the movies themselves.

  53. Nothing will ever beat the physical media, for me. Too many of the TV shows and films I am interested in WILL NEVER be available on the streaming platforms because they're too old/too obscure. So, I will keep buying DVDs and Blu – Rays until they stop making them.

  54. Joseph Bolus

    I’m *still* not convinced that streaming will totally kill physical media.

    As soon as the majority of high-speed internet providers start imposing caps (and Comcast is leading the way here) it will begin to be very painful to view all those movies you “own” on services like VUDU and iTunes. In essence, paying the penalties for exceeding the caps will make it seem like you’re being forced to pay again for an item you “own”. This issue could be escalated due to the end of Net Neutrality which will allow ISPs to charge surcharges for high volume data sites like Netflix, VUDU, and Amazon Prime.

    When “Joe Six Pack” figures out that you pay for physical media just once; but that Digital “ownership” requires paying penalties for cap overages and surcharges for high volume entertainment sites, then there will be a huge resurgence back to DVD, Blu-ray, and 4K/UHD discs.

    I see this playing out this way over the next 18-24 months.

    Very true. Caps on your net use will really start to hit the online playing/watching.. And Comcast is the front runner on it. Glad I don't have them.

  55. William Moore

    Laserdisc was always a "niche" medium but was a definite quality upgrade from VHS tape, which was the only commercial movie format at the time. Many laserdiscs, however, suffered from poor mastering and the players were fairly "pricey" for a good one but Laserdisc was indeed the precursor to DVD which caught on more quickly. I have several LDs, however, which still look very good, such as "Top Gun" which was mastered carefully and featured Dolby "AC-3" surround sound. Every format it seems has a "heyday" , but we shouldn't ignore them just because they have been around for awhile. I have several movies on LD which were never released on DVD and, of course there are many movies which have never been released on BluRay and there will been even more movies which will never get released on UHDBD. I always keep my discs because it seems to me that streaming is just a "temporary" medium.

    Well said. And right… I can still buy Laser Disc from a very big used Laser Disc shop up North. Got over 100 of them
    And two Laser disc players. one is over 25 years old. And still works great!

  56. atcolomb

    A long, long, time ago i had a vhs player like everybody else and bought a few tapes but noticed laserdisc movies and the ones released by Criterion were letterboxed when needed so i stopped buying vhs and started to buy laserdisc. Still have my 3 players and over 300 discs with most being Criterion or box sets like Star Wars or The Godfather and still watch them.

    I have two laser disc players. All kinds of laser disc.
    You can still find them around..

  57. Very true. Caps on your net use will really start to hit the online playing/watching.. And Comcast is the front runner on it. Glad I don't have them.

    We have Comcast, and our heaviest usage month was still only 25% of the limit (1024GB) before we would have been charged more. For now, it's really a non-issue for us. I do not even think about their soft cap.

  58. bigshot

    Formats don't matter any more. DVD, CD, SACD, Blu-Ray… it's all good. What matters is the quality of the mastering. Tonight I watched a blu-ray and a DVD. They both looked equally good.

    I just purchased the Canadian anamorphic widescreen DVD of John Sayles' MATEWAN, which I hadn't know was available until it was pointed out on this forum. Sitting just a bit further back from the screen than I tend to do with Blu-rays, it looks quite spectacular! $22.00 was the most I have paid for a DVD for years, but this was well worth it. Yes, there are amazingly good DVD's out there.

  59. Dick

    I just purchased the Canadian anamorphic widescreen DVD of John Sayles' MATEWAN, which I hadn't know was available until it was pointed out on this forum. Sitting just a bit further back from the screen than I tend to do with Blu-rays, it looks quite spectacular! $22.00 was the most I have paid for a DVD for years, but this was well worth it. Yes, there are amazingly good DVD's out there.

    Do you have a link to that Canadian DVD.

  60. Scott Merryfield

    We have Comcast, and our heaviest usage month was still only 25% of the limit (1024GB) before we would have been charged more. For now, it's really a non-issue for us. I do not even think about their soft cap.

    But what if you have a family of 5,6..? You will be over in no time..

  61. Peter Neski

    somebody hasn't told Barnes and Noble

    I am a bookbinder and believe me Barnes and Nobles days are numbered so nobody has to tell them. I see less and less demand for books now because of Kindles and Notebooks and the internet. Just look at what is happening to newspapers across the country. I am really old now and have gone through all the different formats, and it is expensive to update content to the latest improved play back signal. So part of me is nostalgic and misses the different formats but the sound and picture does get better and better so maybe not investing in actual hard copy media of any format that probably will change isn't that bad. Just don't trust the cloud based storage. And streaming seams like it can be manipulated, like compressed without telling the end user. Maybe just paranoid.

  62. Bob Bielski

    I am a bookbinder and believe me Barnes and Nobles days are numbered so nobody has to tell them. I see less and less demand for books now because of Kindles and Notebooks and the internet.

    Your post had me wondering if print books have really declined behind ebooks, and I found this online stat that ebooks are projected to only represent 25.8 percent of the market this year:

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/234106/e-book-market-share-worldwide/

  63. When it comes to highly technical type books with a lot of math equations, I still insist on buying the paper versions.

    For crappy mass market titles which I only end up reading once, I'm fine with reading the digital ebook versions. For example stuff like: Star Wars novels, rockstar autobiographies/biographies, etc …

  64. Trust me the demand is down more and more each year. Guess it is good for trees. Internet is both good and bad. We just have to change with the times. Jcroy one of the biggest clients we have is American Mathematics Society. I make books with calculus, trigonometry and quantum physics equations. The ones I wish I could understand have Fourier transform equations. I could really tweek my room if I new mathematics.

  65. Even worse are the digital ebooks of older technical books (ie. before 2010), where all they did was just lousy scans. Really annoying stuff like plus signs "+" which were not scanned properly and end up looking like minus signs "-" etc …

  66. jcroy

    Even worse are the digital ebooks of older technical books (ie. before 2010), where all they did was just lousy scans. Really annoying stuff like plus signs "+" which were not scanned properly and end up looking like minus signs "-" etc …

    Yes my company went through a period where they were archiving and scanning library books, some so fragile and old and worn they fell apart. We also scanned to reprint. Now everyone is using acid free paper for longevity. Speaking of longevity, one of the best things that happened was discs multi discs that last so much longer than vinyl. I loved the transition to Laserdisc from VHS not to mention longevity. The scanning was a job that I did horribly. There was a gentleman that worked there and he had a few years experience doing it and he could adjust the parameters in photo shop, the black level, contrast a so on and he would get the scans to really pop. like everything else it takes practice to get good at it.

  67. Bob Bielski

    We also scanned to reprint.

    I've noticed the best reprints which were obviously from scans, were titles reprinted by Cambridge University Press.

    The worse reprints done from obvious scans, were from lousy publishers like Elsevier, Springer Verlag, etc …

    If I'm interested in new titles being published by any of these academic publishers, I'll buy the first printing which is frequently not a lousy scanned copy. Frequently the second and subsequent printings will be either scanned reprints, and/or the paper quality is really crappy (ie. almost newsprint quality, etc …).

  68. There has been a new trend in going to digital presses and the quality is horrible. It is cheap and quick but horrible. Another new thing I heard about was in the Billboard industry where they no longer print just put up electronic displays. And there is electronic sheets you can hang in department stores that can change the message. Maybe we will eventually see books that you can flip the pages of but can plug in via USB and change or edit the content, electronic paper.

  69. One thing books have going for them is the ability to read them on the beach in direct sunlight. The displays still fall short on this. But with the advent of UHD displays who knows. Imagine a display so bright that it throws heat. My poor eyes LOL

  70. Another thing I've noticed is that many of these large publishing conglomerates have been gradually shedding/downsizing their academic publishing, such as undergraduate/graduate level textbooks + monographs. For example, behemoths like Wiley, Pearson, etc … only seem to still be interested in freshman textbooks (and some journals), and not much else.

    The side effect of this happening, is that some advanced level textbooks + monographs ended up changing to a more respectable academic publisher like Cambridge University Press. (ie. Frequently less expensive books).

  71. We had a company meeting last Friday and were told that there used to be 3 large bookbinders in the country left and they just bought one and now just two major players left. I have seen this in the past when I was in commercial print shops. The third largest printer bought us out and became the second largest, all the CEOs and heads of the companies made a killing and we all got layed off and pushed. I fortunately never got picked on. I saw restructuring where a guy with over 20 years at the company got let go and they kept me with 6 yrs. I absolutely felt like hell. Nobody could explain to me how it was right just cost effective. I thank my lucky stars that I am old enough to retire, and my wife makes a great salary so when ALL printing goes south I will be ok.

  72. Bob Bielski

    There has been a new trend in going to digital presses and the quality is horrible. It is cheap and quick but horrible.

    I recently made a preorder for a new title published by one of the above mentioned lousy academic publishers. That book finally arrived in the mail today.

    If I didn't know any better, it looks like the pages were printed up by a laserprinter and bound up into a hardback cover. Looks kinda lousy and cheap. I can't believe I actually paid $100+ for this title as a preorder, but it does have a lot of good information all in one place which I'm interested in. (Also arguably better than printing up hundreds of pages on my home printer, and going through several ink cartridges).

    Is this generic digital presses lousy quality? This is very lousy especially for a first printing of a new title.

  73. Just got through reading about Oppo not making any new disc players. Home Theater Review. Streaming is killing off all the hard copy discs. Not just CD or DVD. How can we read a review about video or audio quality of a stream???? Feels like a death. Oh boy by by signal quality.

  74. From Home Media Magazine numbers

    2013 DVD $5.2B (-13% YTY) BD 2.3B (+5%)
    2014 DVD $4.6B (-11%) BD 2.1B (-8%)
    2015 DVD $3.96 (-15%) BD 2.0B (-5%)
    2016 DVD $3.4B (-14%) BD 2.0B (-0.5%)
    2017 DVD $2.8B (-17%) BD 1.9B (-7%)

    Q1 2018 DVD $612.1M (-19%) BD $476.8M ( +5.2% YTY)
    DVD still with +22% sales

    Historical first after 3 out of 4 weeks of HighDefDiscs outselling SD. In 2017 that only happened 3 times total and in 2016 only once.
    March 2018 DVD $229.5M BD/UHD $239.8M

    Unit sales of DVD still far outsell BD/UHD given the average unit price for HD is about double an SD unit.

  75. I wouldn't sign a two year contract for cable unless there was a substantial discount for doing it.

    However, if I could lock in my internet rates now, I'd be more tempted to do that. With net neutrality gone, I think it's only a matter of time before service providers start jacking up the rates for different streaming services. In the past, Netflix has paid internet service providers directly for the privilege of getting ultrafast speed on their streams, which is why for some users, Netflix can appear to be working better than other streaming services used on the same device at the same time. I wouldn't be surprised if Netflix once again coughed up extra dough to make sure that all of their stuff got to where it needed to be. But I'm not sure that Vudu or Hulu or iTunes can be expected to do the same.

  76. One of the things I have noticed about Netflix is they are everywhere for free. T mobile and now Verizon has it and Comcast as well. I wonder if we will have 5000 channels soon on the web from all over the world in any language. I could be a year older just channel surfing from one end to the other LOL

  77. Bob Bielski

    One of the things I have noticed about Netflix is they are everywhere for free. T mobile and now Verizon has it and Comcast as well. I wonder if we will have 5000 channels soon on the web from all over the world in any language. I could be a year older just channel surfing from one end to the other LOL

  78. My family gets a free membership from T mobile because of having 4 or more phones. We were able to sign into Verizon Fios cable tv using email attached to T mobile account, and getting Netlix on cable free of charge.
    Good deal.

  79. David Norman

    From Home Media Magazine numbers

    2013 DVD $5.2B (-13% YTY) BD 2.3B (+5%)
    2014 DVD $4.6B (-11%) BD 2.1B (-8%)
    2015 DVD $3.96 (-15%) BD 2.0B (-5%)
    2016 DVD $3.4B (-14%) BD 2.0B (-0.5%)
    2017 DVD $2.8B (-17%) BD 1.9B (-7%)

    Q1 2018 DVD $612.1M (-19%) BD $476.8M ( +5.2% YTY)
    DVD still with +22% sales

    Historical first after 3 out of 4 weeks of HighDefDiscs outselling SD. In 2017 that only happened 3 times total and in 2016 only once.
    March 2018 DVD $229.5M BD/UHD $239.8M

    Unit sales of DVD still far outsell BD/UHD given the average unit price for HD is about double an SD unit.

    Let's not forget the average price of DVDs has dropped so that would reflect in revenue of DVDs sales.

  80. [EMAIL][email protected][/EMAIL]

    Everything will be Digital.

    Small point perhaps but DVD is already "Digital."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD

    Aside from that, I fear you may be correct. Sadly, markets are controlled by numbers and there will always be more people [read customers] who will accept whatever method a film is delivered to them [and know no better than to consider it pristine and ideal] than there will be people [customers] who demand to own the movie they paid for outright, without a digital overlord that can decide [for whatever reason] to rescind or modify their ownership rights. It's a brave new world but I liked the old one better.

  81. For the average person, streaming makes more sense anyway. With the exception of titles for kids, they don't buy films, period. They watch something once and that's it. It was the same in DVD's heyday, but streaming saves them the trip to Blocklbuster.

  82. Worth

    For the average person, streaming makes more sense anyway. With the exception of titles for kids, they don't buy films, period. They watch something once and that's it. It was the same in DVD's heyday, but streaming saves them the trip to Blocklbuster.

    yes. That's the problem pretty much across the board. Too many "average" people.

  83. DVD retailers which i visited regularly are clearing catalogued DVD stocks and rack space for BDs, while adding little volume a DVDs per new titles for sale in recent 2yrs…

  84. I am really weary of buying formats which are supposed to be the last word in clarity and as close to sorce as will ever be possibe, only to find it was all a lie, and it is supplanted by something else.

  85. TJPC

    I am really weary of buying formats which are supposed to be the last word in clarity and as close to sorce as will ever be possibe, only to find it was all a lie, and it is supplanted by something else.

    Are you old enough to have seen the transition from 78rpm discs to vinyl records first hand ?

    🙂

  86. jcroy

    Are you old enough to have seen the transition from 78rpm discs to vinyl records first hand ?

    🙂

    I actually am, but I collected 78s for years due to the performances not the quality. Most had a disclaimer on the label which said “not licenced for radio broadcast”, because although it was know quality was poor, they were the only game in town.

    I am referring to DVDs, Blu rays, and even VHS, which were touted as the last word in quality. I bought each format and thought at the time that I was building a long lasting archive.

  87. TJPC

    I am referring to DVDs, Blu rays, and even VHS, which were touted as the last word in quality. I bought each format and thought at the time that I was building a long lasting archive.

    I hear you but ultimately it will be up to the individual to discern what is optimal for them. You can't expect the industry to stop trying to keep itself relevant by touting [sometimes dubious] features and improvements. Content used to sell movies but nowadays it seems features play a more important role.

  88. I can see why people get into conspiracies. You begin to think Edison invented 4K blu rays and they were dumbed down so industries would make money for the last 100+ years:wacko:!

  89. TJPC

    I can see why people get into conspiracies. You begin to think Edison invented 4K blu rays and they were dumbed down so industries would make money for the last 100+ years:wacko:!

    Please explain…

  90. TJPC

    I am referring to DVDs, Blu rays, and even VHS, which were touted as the last word in quality. I bought each format and thought at the time that I was building a long lasting archive.

    When I was young, I do remember formats like 8-track, CED, beta, etc ….. which came and went.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitance_Electronic_Disc

    When I first heard about audio cds, I remember seeing some older relatives buying their music collections again. They even gave me some of their old vinyl records (such as Pink Floyd, Alice Cooper, Beatles, etc …), after buying the cd versions. In spite of all the impressive advertising/propaganda about audio cds being superior, etc … even back then I suspected they were being "conned" by the propaganda into buying everything again at twice the price.

    Since then, I strongly suspected a similar "con job" could happen for anything like movies, and later computers, hi-tech devices, etc …

  91. John Dirk

    Please explain…

    You know the old joke! Edison comes out of the lab with a CD in his hand. He says “look what I invented”. The people who are in the lab say “Wait” and proceed to encourage him to dumb it down more and more until it is a cylinder, so they can sell the same music over and over again.

  92. TJPC

    I am really weary of buying formats which are supposed to be the last word in clarity and as close to sorce as will ever be possibe, only to find it was all a lie, and it is supplanted by something else.

    Blu-Ray was already 96 percent of the resolution for movies with 2K digital intermediates. UHD is higher resolution than what pretty much any of us had seen in theaters, until recently, unless you were lucky enough to see a 65mm print at some point. Before the next generation comes along, they're going to need to drastically change the production process.

    Until broadband access is universal around the globe, I think disc sales will continue. You can live in a remote Alaskan village with a house running on solar and generators, where the mail comes via bush plane, and watch movies in full 4K quality on disc. Until they have fiberoptic going to places like that, there will be a market for physical media. There are still four Blockbusters north of the 49th parallel for that reason.

  93. TJPC

    I am really weary of buying formats which are supposed to be the last word in clarity and as close to sorce as will ever be possibe, only to find it was all a lie, and it is supplanted by something else.

    Unfortunately this is very true. Remember when we were told by the record companies that LPs were obsolete and CDs were the way to go. Now were told CDs are obsolete and we should all buy our favorites over in vinyl. (BTW, I still like CDs !!!)

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