XBR400 lighter scan lines in squeeze

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by DarrinH, Jul 9, 2001.

  1. DarrinH

    DarrinH Second Unit

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    I was wondering if anyone else noticed this on their set. With my 36"XBR400 when I watch a DVD in the anamorphic squeeze mode the first scan line at the top of the picture and the last scan line at the bottom of the picture are visible but brighter. The area I am describing is in the picture and not the black bar area included in the video signal.
    For instance, I watched Jaws last night and during the ocean scenes you could see a difference in color or brightness at the very top and bottom of the picture. I looked very closely at the TV and noticed that the bright lines were included in the video signal (the ocean was visible). When you sit back from the TV these two lines are very noticeable during scenes that are not dark. For instance if it is a scene at night these scan lines I speak of are black and no difference is noticeable.
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    added 3:20 PM
    sharksteak
    over at the Spot
    quote: There is a thin (approx. 1/32") lighter horizontal line on top of a darker line (compared to the rest of the picture) on the top and bottom of the DVD letterbox all the way across the screen - with 1.85:1 or 2.35:1 DVD's ie. any aspect ratio. I noticed this in the store. It's more prominent on the larger 36" screen. There may be a service menu fix but I'm not certain at this point. Regardless. It's like the bowing - it's there but it does NOT bother me. And things like that have the potential to bug me. So bottom line it's not distracting.[/quote]
    For me, it is a bother but its good to know others have seen this. Is there any service menu fix that anyone may know of? Do others see the same thing?
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    The Entertainment Cave
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  2. Allan Jayne

    Allan Jayne Cinematographer

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    Who is doing the squeezing, the TV (reduced raster vertical size) or the DVD player (downconversion)?
    It is possible for this brighter line effect to occur as part of DVD player downconversion. Does it also happen along some if not all of the top and bottom edges of dark subjects on a light background (or vice versa) inside the picture?
    Does it happen with non-anamorphic disks, or with anamorphic ones with the DVD player set to 16:9 allowing vertical stretching of the subject to happen?
    Other video hints:http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/video.htm
     
  3. DarrinH

    DarrinH Second Unit

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    Update: I watched Jurrasic Park last night which is 1.85:1 and the lighter lines were not present.
    The XBR does the squeezing with the DVD player (Sony DVP-S300) set to 16:9.
    Hmmm, light subjects on a dark background you do not notice it. It seems to be related to the background...
    I think Jaws is 2:35:1 and you could really notice the lines, so it could possibly be related to the aspect ratio or the film transfer itself. I remember watching Saving Private Ryan which is 1.85:1 and the lighter lines were not present in the picture.
    I pretty much never watch a non-anamorphic disk, because I have very few of them. For what its worth I do remember there were no brighter lines present in the picture of The Abyss.
    Any other XBR owners out there notice this? Try Jaws on your TVs and any other 2.35:1 you can think of and post your results here.
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    The EC
    The Entertainment Cave
    "10,000 for me by-myself. For that you get the head, the tail...the whole damn thing."
    [Edited last by DarrinH on July 10, 2001 at 09:39 AM]
     
  4. Doug_L

    Doug_L Stunt Coordinator

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    Not sure what the cause is, but I too have noticed this on a Sony Wega with the squeeze on. Doesn't bother me too much, though, so I haven't looked for the cause.
    I always assumed it was in the transfer of the film, that this is some sort of edge enhancement used to make the transition from picture content to black bar more distinct, especially for those TV's with the brightness set too high. This may also explain why you notice it on some movies and not others; some transfers do not have this "feature". I don't know this for a fact, but as other forms of edge enhancement are employed, it seems at least possible.
    Try viewing Jaws without the squeeze (ie: DVDP set to 4:3 so the player does the downconversion). If you still see it at either the top or bottom then it's probably on the disc, and a byproduct of the transfer.
     
  5. DarrinH

    DarrinH Second Unit

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    Update, Donnie Brasco SE shows the same sign of the lighter lines. Over at the spot they mentioned it may be the sets DRC. It seems to be related to material that is OAR 2:35:1.
    Any other inputs?
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    The EC
    The Entertainment Cave
    "10,000 for me by-myself. For that you get the head, the tail...the whole damn thing."
     
  6. Jeremy Little

    Jeremy Little Supporting Actor

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    I tried my tv with Jaws. I have the 32hs20 which is very similar to the 32xbr400. Ok, the only thing I can think of is that the Brightness is too high. I know Jaws and Donnie Brasco are both 2.35:1. It COULD also be a DVD player that doesn't output black at black. The reason you are not seeing in Saving Private Ryan or any other 1.85:1 movie is that there is no player generated letterboxing. The movie is output to your TV as a Full anamorphic image. With 16:9 enhanced on, the tv collapses the raster to 16:9 and the 1.85:1 movie fills this widescreen area completely. When you display a 2.35:1 image, the player outputs a 1.85:1 area roughly and letterboxes the image. With 16:9 enhanced on, your tv creates the same 16:9 area as before. Since the movie has a wider aspect ratio than that area, it is letterboxed. The lighter color you are seeing it drawn by the tv as part of the dvd's original signal. The dark bars are the picture tube's color with the absence of any signal at all.
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  7. Reginald Trent

    Reginald Trent Screenwriter

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    I have a 36XBR400 and I agree with the previous regarding your brightness setting. Turn it down and your problem will go away.
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  8. DarrinH

    DarrinH Second Unit

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    I know about the black shade problem (i.e. seeing two different shades of black bars). I turned my brightness down so that the different shades of black are not noticeable (signal and non-signal areas).
    I watched Entrapment last night which was non-anamorphic 2.35:1 and still noticed the lines, but they were not as pronounced as they were on Jaws. It must be related to the aspect ratio and where the transition from picture to black bars falls on the raster.
    I have a very old DVD player though. Its a Sony DVP-S300. It still produces a great picture but I wonder if others who have a better quality player and this set see the same thing I am seeing between non-anamorphic 2.35:1 material and anamorphic 2.35:1 material.
    quote: Try viewing Jaws without the squeeze (ie: DVDP set to 4:3 so the player does the downconversion). If you still see it at either the top or bottom then it's probably on the disc, and a byproduct of the transfer.[/quote]
    Doug, I am going to try this tonight and see what happens but since I noticed it a bit on the old Entrapment disk I'd say its going to be the same.
    I just need to rule out the player, so far it seems to be the aspect ratio of the film.
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    The EC
    The Entertainment Cave
    "10,000 for me by-myself. For that you get the head, the tail...the whole damn thing."
    [Edited last by DarrinH on July 26, 2001 at 03:28 PM]
    [Edited last by DarrinH on July 26, 2001 at 03:29 PM]
     

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