why i dont like japanese rpgs

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by felix_suwarno, Mar 10, 2002.

  1. felix_suwarno

    felix_suwarno Screenwriter

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    - random battles

    - turn based gameplay

    - either convoluted story or too simplistic story

    - no innovation in gameplay

    one more thing. i dont enjoy final fantasy story since it usually is full of plot, that i often find my self forgetting something, and i dont have any option to re-play previous movie clip in order to refresh my memory. say, i have played an rph for 20 hours. usually i would have forgotten an fmv played on the 5th hour of my playing session.

    and i hate it.
     
  2. Romier S

    Romier S Producer

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    Simple solution. Dont play them.
     
  3. Larry Seno Jr.

    Larry Seno Jr. Supporting Actor

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    That solution is a bit over simplified. Because of the mindless drones that automatically buy a Final Fantasy game, people that prefer a real role playing game and not some Anime based garbage are left out to dry.
     
  4. Dave F

    Dave F Cinematographer

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    Hooray for you.

    -Dave
     
  5. Romier S

    Romier S Producer

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  6. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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  7. JoshF

    JoshF Supporting Actor

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    It's really strange to see how defensive and adolescent people get about Final Fantasy, especially those who haven't been lucky enough to play an entire one all the way through.

    Don't fear it. If you really feel left out, pick one up and enjoy it, then realize why it's so popular. Final Fantasy games are anything *but* mindless.
     
  8. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    One thing I must admit, though, is that I've only been playing the series since 7. I got Anthology, so I now have 5-10 and have played them all (never beat 5, got to the very end of 6, beat 7-10).
     
  9. Derrik Draven

    Derrik Draven Supporting Actor

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    The only thing that sometimes gets under my skin with Japanese RPG's is the cheesy, warm and fuzzy, cutesy stories. But, warm and fuzzy is in alot of Japanese games.

    But, after playing enough of their stuff, I realize that that's their "thing". It's just not always mine.

    I'm not talking about the entire RPG but, some subplots and certain moments make me roll my eyes and say "...oh boy".

    Other than that, I enjoyed, for the most part, FFVII and, FFX. (although, I never finished X. I was close to the end then got bored).
     
  10. Gary King

    Gary King Second Unit

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  11. MathewM

    MathewM Stunt Coordinator

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    To defend Felix, I too am bored with turn based RPGs. They really are monotonous after awhile to the non-die hard player. RPG's are the most stagnant genre now. I really wish that they would die so somebody can re-invent them. Take Skies of Arcadia for example. I had heard so much about the game I just had to pick it up. Very engaging until I found that I couldn't explore for more than 15 seconds before I was forced to engage in combat. I despised the constant startle of being thrown into combat by an unseen enemy. I quit playing the game because of this. My loss I suppose. Really though RPGs tend to turn off a large audience because of this 'geek' factor.

    Hopefully Project Ego will end this trend and actually 'revolutionize' * RPG gaming.

    *-Morgan, this ones for you.
     
  12. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    RPGs aren't the most stagnant, fighting games are. That's changing with Tekken 4, Virtua Fighter 4, and Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance, though.

    RPGs are constantly changing and each game is different. Some games have random battles, some don't. Chrono Cross allowed you to see the enemy on screen before getting into a fight with it, and if you touch it, then you go to battle. But, you could escape every time if you wanted to.

    The point of random battles is that nobody is going to voluntarily get into battles unless they are trying to get something like a new ability or items, and if you don't battle you can't build up your characters, and then you will lose against bosses. If people could go through a game without fighting, then there would be no gameplay at all and if there were bosses, they would be killed almost instantly.

    There is a reason for the whole random battle thing. I, for one, don't mind and sometimes enjoy random battles. I'm sure there are others who agree.
     
  13. MikeAlletto

    MikeAlletto Cinematographer

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    Probably the anime comment is from the constant and very annoying:

    goody goody we are destroying the planet save the flowers humans are polluting the planet so a big creature appears to teach us that must be destroyed but be sad about it because it is just there because we are destroying the planet

    Ughhh...nasty, boring and extremely lame. Not to mention the anime-esch close-ups on the characters, the big eyes, the japanese-like dialogue, the crazy looking hair and clothes that would only come out of Japan. It was ok when Final Fantasy started, but now its just getting very very old. The only reason I play (and I use that term 'play' lightly) the Final Fantasy games is to see the major CGI movies. Everything else is all the same. I really think that the Japanese game makers are not capable of making a rpg without having some sort of environment message or them force feeding some other type of goody goody message through the game onto the players. If I want to learn something or force someone to try and change my ideas I'll watch an After School Special or something.
     
  14. Jeff Kleist

    Jeff Kleist Executive Producer

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    If you just want the CG sequences, there's a company in Taiwan that released a (legit) 2 DVD set of them. I think it was only a limited item
     
  15. Benjamin_L

    Benjamin_L Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi all. Here's my little rant against console RPGs:
    Speaking as a long-time computer gamer and a tabletop rpg enthusiast, I think the major beef I and my peers share with console "rpgs" is how very, very little involvement you have in developing a character's personality and affecting the story.
    I've watched folks play FF7 and have myself trudged up till disk 3 of IX, and quite frankly I didn't see a hell of a lot of role-playing going on in either game. Exchanges between characters are limited to clicking 'talk' an wading through pre-scripted, uninteresting chatter. You were never given the choice to be forthright or lie, to be good or evil, honorable or scurrilous, irresponsable, kind, or what have you.
    For example: In IX, immediately following Garnet's coronation, I remember almost screaming in frustration at the adolescent stupidity of your protagonist. After all... your girlfriend's mother had just been murdered... and there's a STRONG indication that she is also in danger from the psychopathic evil alien/summoner/jerk-off who has a thing for blowing up cities. So naturally... our hero then decides to run off to some random city to play a stupid card game. A card game!!! Hello??!! [​IMG]
    Unfortunately, it seems as if the appeal of big budget rpgs like latest final fantasies (Gorgeous cutscenes) essentially hamstrings any variation in storyline and any chance player has of influencing how their characters develop... and I'm not talking about learning skills or allocating points. Chrono Cross was an interesting step away from this trend, but even then your options were tiny.
    In closing, here's hoping a few game publishers would push the envelope a little to appease Baldur's Gate fiends like me who can take games a bit too seriously.[​IMG]
     
  16. Larry Seno Jr.

    Larry Seno Jr. Supporting Actor

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  17. Jason Handy

    Jason Handy Second Unit

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    Whoah, somebody needs to review the basic rules of politeness, huh? I can see how you are so passionate about the idea of what a role-playing game is supposed to engender. And, I heartily agree with most of your points. However, there is no need to completely slam people for their opinions. Lets all be adults here before the thread gets closed.

    And to push my final point, I DO believe that the japanese RPGs are in fact role-playing games. Why? Because they are much mor than just fantasy adventure games. The battle system is usually more involved, you almost always have some form of currency, whereas with adventure games, everything is an "item".

    While the japanese RPGs may not measure up to your purist definition of role-playing game, to people that like these games, they will empathize with the characters. And that is the true definition of an RPG...to feel some connection with the character.

    Jason
     
  18. Yoshi Sugawara

    Yoshi Sugawara Stunt Coordinator

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    I can understand your sentiments, Larry.

    I've been a Final Fantasy and Japanese RPG fan for a long time, but I think it's come to the point where it's getting really formulaic. I've come to the point in gaming, where I want the freedom to explore, the freedom to do anything (well, almost anything). Final Fantasy X, while the story was good and was quite fun, was lacking to me in that there wasn't enough freedom.

    I just recently picked up and started playing Fallout 2, developed by Black Isle Studios (the same guys who made Baldur's Gate, which I haven't played, yet!). Wow - even though the graphics are piss-poor by today's standards - it's so much fun. I can be an evil bastard and kill a shopkeeper and jack his stuff, and then suffer the consequences by taking a hit on your reputation. Or, when encountering somne kind of "boss" character, you can talk him out of fighting if your intelligence is high enough. I am like, wow this is really cool! And you even get experience points for completing quests without killing anyone.

    I realized that a lot of these "western" RPGs tend to be more involved in role-defining and just a little bit more realism. I've encountered situations in a lot of Japanese RPGs where I see an enemy with some really cool weaponry, but after you kill him, it all goes away. In "western" RPGs, usually you can kill the guy and get the guy's weapon too.

    A lot of Japanese RPGs these days are following the same old formula - go from town to town, each subsequent town for some mysterious reason has better weaponry/armor, go to dungeon, kill boss, next cutscene - repeat until 40 hours have passed.

    Japanese RPGs, though, tend to be heavily story driven, and that probably engages gamers, some more than others.

    I guess my point is to open your mind to other things - try out different kinds of games - don't restrict yourself to a small box. Whew that was long.
     
  19. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    Benjamin-

    I see what you are saying, but in the FF games (and most console RPGs) you are playing the role of a character in a story. The stories are the meat of the games, and the cutscenes move them along in a relatively good fashion. They, along with the graphics, DO enhance the experience beyond looking good and bring some realism to the games. While your comments are justified and I do agree to a point, the way in which console RPGs and table top/PC RPGs work is different, so comparing them isn't really fair. You are taking an experience you had with one type of game and comparing it to another type of game that wasn't what you thought it would be based on your experience with the first type of game.

    Larry-

    While a lot of Japanese RPGs are anime based, that doesn't mean they lack realism. Realistic actions, twists in the storylines, emotions exhibited by characters, and such are pretty accurate and realistic, and that's where the appeal lies. In Western style/table top RPGs, you don't get emotions from characters because you are pulled out of the realm in which you play. You are not really living in a world, but just doing stuff in it. In FF games, you meet a group of characters and interact with them so you get to see how they act and get to like them. They grow on you, and you feel for them. You don't get that from other styles of RPGs. That is a BIG part of the appeal of FF games.

    To all-

    Japanese RPGs have STORIES and follow them. You are not a character that you create, you are placed into a world and guided through an adventure. You don't change a story when you read it, instead, you are guided through it by the author. Japanese RPGs do the same thing. No, you don't create a character from scratch, and no, you can't do anything you want, but I personally would rather have an amazing story with characters that I have grown to care about than run around doing nothing of any real importance with a character who lacks personality for an unlimited amount of time.

    Japanese RPGs (which should probably be referred to as JRPGs so we save time typing) are story driven and place you in the role of a character. American RPGs (ARPGs, I guess) are gameplay driven but they lack deep, complex stories, emotional characters, and some of the things that make JRPGs so appealing to fans.

    You can't say which is better because its an opinion thing.
     
  20. Dave Falasco

    Dave Falasco Screenwriter

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    Excellent post, Morgan! I couldn't agree more with what you said. JRPG's are like stories that you unlock by playing, and ARPG's tend to be much more open-ended. Which style one prefers is just a matter of taste.
    You said it beautifully, man. Nice job! [​IMG]
     

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