A Few Words About While we wait for A few words about...™ Lawrence of Arabia -- in 4k/UHD Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[HagenBlaz]

I'll make an effort to post an image of the "dried lake bed',' so that readers can better understand the severity of the problem.
RAH

Would they look at all like this?

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by HagenBlaz /t/308191/while-we-wait-for-a-few-words-about-lawrence-of-arabia-in-blu-ray/1950#post_3952125
Would they look at all like this?

Very much.

What occurs after the emulsion and base are dried, is that in printing, the negative is just slightly cupped. And then the cracking begins. Much of this was based upon the film being over-heated in the desert. Originally, wet-gate printing hid the defects, but as the stock became drier, there was little to hold the problem back. The film needed to be hydrated in some way, but that never occurred.

While we were able to cover well over 50% of it with wet gate, it has made Mr. Crisp's life less than sweet.

RAH

 

[JParker]

No offense meant, but you're offering suggestions concerning tech matters, the selection of vendors, and trying to help us think through problems that Mr. Crisp and I and our teams, have dealt with frame by frame, with the veritable fine-tooth comb, beginning as far back as 1986.
Sit back and please relax, with the understanding that we really do know what we're doing.
Also, and we're appreciative for his comments, KevinEK, who attended the screening, has kindly set things in play for discussion just a few of the more obvious problems, so that, hopefully, reviewers won't get themselves tied in knots over them, telling the world about horrific digital work, DRN, shadows, force fields, and odd vertical happenings.  It would be nice if this could be headed off at the pass, so that people can write about the film, it's history, and the multiple efforts of reconstruction, and analogue and digital restoration.
I'll make an effort to post an image of the "dried lake bed',' so that readers can better understand the severity of the problem.
Again, no offense meant.
RAH

Mr. Harris, having never restored a frame of film in my life, I'm at best a dilettante in such matters, and in my enthusiasm, and regard for this film, I became overly enthusiastic and tried helping and if anyone would take offense, I fear it would be you!
But of course I did not intend any such thing at all. I thought it was an inspired thought that a CGI visual effects firm that is part of Sony might offer assistance. In fact, I've no idea whether digital restoration parallels CGI techniques in, say, making the Eiffel Tower collapse!
So let me reaffirm that you of course are the Toscanini of film restoration; I would never challenge what you and your team has done. As I wrote above (if you don't mind me quoting the salient point of the post you responded to)

On the whole, since no one else viewing above noticed, perhaps it's unobtrusive and I suspect not at all an impairment to the excellence of the restoration. I'm sure 99.9% of customers, other than a cranky, unreasonable lot, will be thrilled! Not to worry.

Now, you are a busy man, and I don't expect you've time to answer but if anyone reading this has expertise, is digital restoration similar to CGI creation of visual effects? I ask because in the article on The Robe above, Mr. Inchalik said,

“The lenses used at the time were quite soft and had certain kinds of distortion,” Inchalik explains. “The photography itself was a little soft and a little more challenging than you’d like. And, of course, we were dealing with dupes, and dupes of dupes, and were trying to put those together in a way where it looked seamless. The amount of detail that was lost was impossible to reverse, which was what made this an extraordinary technical challenge.”

The inference I made, perhaps incorrectly, is that information is added through the digital restoration process, somewhat akin to CGI creation of "objects". The reason I brought this up is that I recall the following trivia -- that in the creation of Robert Wise's Director's Edition of Star Trek The Motion Picture, the (sadly defunct) firm of Foundation Imaging scanned the original negative to make sure their digital creations had the same characteristics of the film stock used. Of course, they'd explain better, but I think my point is clear.
And this video (the usual caveat on going to another site, I suppose) by one of the artists resulted in a "creation" that matched, if not in resolution, the 70mm footage Douglas Trumbull shot.

This is the quicktime movie made on my powerbook that I showed to Douglas Trumbull... his response was: “Wow... that’s it!”

http://www.betafive.com/PORTFOLIOSITE/TMPmovies.html
http://www.betafive.com/PORTFOLIOSITE/TrekTMP.html
Necessarily, the above is a creation and not a "restoration" and not of any natural object, but a "ship". Hence my inspiration on using VFX personnel, which I regret wasn't correct, I suspect it's "apples and oranges". And any such CGI in a restoration (and I hope there is a supplement explaining how it was done on the Blu-ray) may not then restore but change in such a way that it takes from the integrity of the source film. I actually don't know enough about the process!
In other words, is a variant of Lighwave software used by these firms?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightwave#History

LightWave was used to create special effects for the Babylon 5, Star Trek Voyager, Space: Above and Beyond and seaQuest DSV science fiction television series; the program was also utilized in the production of Titanic as well as the recent Battlestar Galactica TV-series, Sin City, Star Trek, 300 and Star Wars movies.

Again, I offer these questions to more knowledgeable forum members, since I don't wish to impose on Mr. Harris' time.
Finally, I am indeed relaxed and suspect issue of the "pillars" is the proverbial "tempest" and nothing more. Lawrence will certainly be the high water mark for film restoration but it is sad that so much work had to be done due to the "lake bed" issues! It will interesting to learn, if possible, how this was done, again via some kind of digital "artistry" that I think is like CGI but I may be wrong!
And Lawrence is based, to some extent, on Seven Pillars of Wisdom, so perhaps regarding such pillars as artifacts on the film may be a kind of Karma!

 

[Dennis Nicholls]

And Lawrence is based, to some extent, on Seven Pillars of Wisdom, so perhaps regarding such pillars as artifacts on the film may be a kind of Karma!

I'm glad that some modern screenwriter didn't take it upon himself to "improve" the script.
Lawrence (sees dust devil): Look, a pillar of fire!
Doud: No, lord....dust.
Lawrence (laughing): Well maybe it's just a pillar of wisdom.

 

[sharkshark]

   LAWRENCE (sees dust devil):  Look, a pillar of fire!
   DOUD:  No, lord....dust.
   LAWRENCE (laughing):  Well maybe it is just a pillar of wisdom.
   DOUD: And that is why, efendi, you are to be known throughout the lands of my people, 
   from the smallest child with their sparkling eyes to the most wrinkled-as-a-date grandmother that has worked on her
   back as a sewer for the sailors of Zanibar, to the mightiest of kings perched on their royal
   thrones. Trumpets will ring, and men will sing of your name throughout all of time.
   For you, sir, are to be known as Lawrence.... 
DOUD takes a drink of water, in order to improve both the rolling of his "R"s and to induce spittle
   DOUD: (vigorously) Of Arrrrrabia!
DOUD's final flourish it to leave LAWRENCE covered in the ejaculate of water and half-chewed camel that normally coats his teeth.  
CRANE UP
Taking his head scarf, LAWRENCE wipes his face gingerly, his bright blue eyes shining with both tears and the drops of water and meat, and walks off towards THE SUN.

 

[Dennis Nicholls]

The real Lawrence never discusses the seven pillars of wisdom in his book of that title. I guess he wanted to be mysterious. The earliest reference I've found to seven pillars of wisdom is from Proverbs chapter 9.

Wisdom has built her house,
She has hewn her seven pillars.
She has prepared the feast,
Mixed the wine,
And also set the table.
She has sent out her maids to announce
On the heights of the town.
"Let the simple enter here";
To those devoid of sense she says,
"Come, eat my food
And drink the wine that I have mixed;
Give up simpleness and live,
Walk in the way of understanding."

 

[JParker]

The real Lawrence never discusses the seven pillars of wisdom in his book of that title. I guess he wanted to be mysterious. The earliest reference I've found to seven pillars of wisdom is from Proverbs chapter 9.

Thank you, Dennis, for such erudite posts!
Incidentally, do you know I was entirely ignorant that Michael Korda, of the famed, film Korda dynasty but renowned for his work as editor and author (I've read his Charmed Lives, and can recommend) wrote a bio of T.E. Lawrence? I guess I haven't been paying attention. However, here is information on the book:
http://www.harpercollins.com/books/Hero-Michael-Korda/?isbn=9780061712616

From The Telegraph review: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/bookreviews/8450565/Hero-The-Life-and-Legend-of-Lawrence-of-Arabia-review.html

Lawrence, it needs little reminding, was the driving force behind Arab intervention in the First World War. In 1917, he set off in search of a prophet in arms “with a genius for war” who could lead the Arab revolt against the Turks. That he was looking for himself would not dawn on him until later. His disappearance is bound up with his embitterment at the role he played.
Rather than any neurosis over his illegitimacy, or the terrible night in Daraa, it was shame and guilt over his failure to give the Arabs what he had promised (an independent state in Lebanon and Syria) that drove him to give up his name and rank. But as Korda persuasively puts it, this policy of self-renunciation was consistent with his childhood image of himself as someone out of Malory’s Le Morte d’Arthur (a book that he would take into battle); a deliberate mimicry of a crusader knight doing penance in a herb garden.
His friend George Bernard Shaw once likened Lawrence’s reputation to Frankenstein’s monster: “But you created him and must now put up with him as best you can.” Oh to have been a fly on the wall when he was obliged to interview an impostor arrested for pretending to be Lawrence of Arabia. “There is no end to your Protean tricks,” Shaw also wrote to him. “What is your game really?” Probably not even Lawrence knew the answer.
A strange and lonely man, he keeps marching towards us while covering his tracks; and yet as Korda astutely observes, he manages still to have the last word about himself.

And from The New York Times reivew: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/22/books/22book.html

As for Lawrence’s military importance in the Arab Revolt and his direct communication lines to Edmund Allenby, the British commander in the Middle East, Mr. Korda ably puts that in perspective too. It is as if, he writes, “an acting major commanding a small force of guerrillas behind enemy lines had direct access to Eisenhower whenever he pleased in the second half of 1944.” And yet, to a man with Lawrence’s heroic aspirations, such access never seemed overreaching or abnormal.

I look forward to reading it. If anyone here has read the book or has comments, feel free to post.

 

[JParker]

Regarding digital restoration I found some great information at Columbia's site: http://www.sonypicturesmuseum.com/film/restored/waterfront/2

Scanning the damaged film into a digital file workstation at a resolution adequate to capture the picture information in the original element is an essential first step, in this case a 4K scan for WATERFRONT, using Mac G4 workstations, running OS X with Jaguar, and with LaCie FireWire 80GB hard drives, utilizing software that supports a color depth of 16bits. Most of this type of work is done adapting software originally developed for the special effects industry -- removing wires or props from a shot is similar to removing a scratch. (Emphasis added.) When a frame is torn or scratched, the restoration team compares the damaged frames to "clean" frames before or after the damaged one, then copies over the clean frame or partial image into the damaged frame, essentially erasing the damage. It is important that any digitally-replaced shots or sequences match-in with the surrounding original picture so that the digital replacement is seamless and effectively invisible to the viewer.
These before and after shots from ON THE WATERFRONT illustrate the ability to seamlessly replace a damaged frame with a digitally-restored frame. Scratches, tears and general wear can be observed in the first frames from the original picture negative. Next to those are examples of the same frames now restored using new digital processing techniques.

The site has an excellent discussion and video with Mr. Crisp.
See here: http://www.sonypicturesmuseum.com/film/preservation
http://www.sonypicturesmuseum.com/film/preservation/lonelyplace (Video)

Enjoy an in-depth look at the preservation process behind the complete restoration of the 1950 Columbia Pictures film noir classic, IN A LONELY PLACE. This five-minute documentary takes you behind-the-scenes to see how the picture and sound of the original, damaged film are brought back to life as a pristine, digitally restored print. With film preservation and restoration efforts led by Grover Crisp, Senior Vice President, Asset Management, Film Restoration & Digital Mastering, Sony Pictures is ensuring that classic film performances from legendary actors like Humphrey Bogart, Jimmy Stewart and Clark Gable are immortalized for future generations.

So, I'm a novice but I'm learning. And I'll only be a spectator, enjoying the work that is done by artists like Mr. Harris. I hope this information is helpful to readers. We all can offer our gratitude to those behind such efforts!

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by JParker /t/308191/while-we-wait-for-a-few-words-about-lawrence-of-arabia-in-blu-ray/1950#post_3952310
Regarding digital restoration I found some great information at Columbia's site: http://www.sonypicturesmuseum.com/film/restored/waterfront/2
The site has an excellent discussion and video with Mr. Crisp.
See here: http://www.sonypicturesmuseum.com/film/preservation
http://www.sonypicturesmuseum.com/film/preservation/lonelyplace (Video)
So, I'm a novice but I'm learning. And I'll only be a spectator, enjoying the work that is done by artists like Mr. Harris. I hope this information is helpful to readers. We all can offer our gratitude to those behind such efforts!

Good to see someone who is willing to learn, too often people have their head in the sand, one reason i come here is i like to learn more about film.

 

[Wade Sowers]

Sorry if this is old news (I didn't look back in the 66 pages to see if it has been mentioned), but the new Blu of LAWRENCE is available for preorder at amazon.uk at a pretty good price, it is Region Free and will be released a couple of months before the U.S. version . . .
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lawrence-Arabia-Blu-ray-Region-Free/dp/B003ARSPIE/ref=sr_1_1?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1342981519&sr=1-1

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Wade,

Yes, that link was previously posted, but thank you again.

Some of us, including myself, have preordered the UK version
as it comes without all the swag at a more affordable price.

 

[usrunnr]

If the film is "locked", from whom would permission to make further restorations, i.e. restore missing frames, lengthen a scene, come? Or, are we now done with restoring this film for posterity? Who "owns" the film and its artistic rights?

 

[Robert Harris]

The film is, to the best of my knowledge, owned by Sony and Horizon Productions.

 

[DSmith1984]

Sorry if this is old news (I didn't look back in the 66 pages to see if it has been mentioned), but the new Blu of LAWRENCE is available for preorder at amazon.uk at a pretty good price, it is Region Free and will be released a couple of months before the U.S. version . . .
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lawrence-Arabia-Blu-ray-Region-Free/dp/B003ARSPIE/ref=sr_1_1?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1342981519&sr=1-1

I might get proven wrong, but I suspect this date is gonna be pushed back much closer to the US release date. I just can't imagine Sony would risk the loss of business on their huge collector set by having it region free and available 2 months earlier in another territory.

 

[Paul Rossen]

Again, it cannot be changed.
The film is locked, as approved by David Lean, and as restrained by c. 1987- 88 technology.
While we could do fixes now, we are not authorized to do so.
RAH

I'm sure that if the missing frames or technology was available in 1988-1989 to correct the skipping due to missing frames David Lean would have approved fixing it. Thus, I really don't understand why the few instances of skips weren't fixed. Other restoration efforts were made. Why not the missing frames? The missing balcony scene is another matter though it would have been nice to have it via seamless branching within the context of the film. Hopefully it is within the context of the complete scene in the supplements. That said as one who saw the original version as well as all cut versions I'm still excited about the prospects of having Lawrence on blu-ray...

 

[rich_d]

Again, it cannot be changed.
The film is locked, as approved by David Lean, and as restrained by c. 1987- 88 technology.
While we could do fixes now, we are not authorized to do so.
RAH

Robert,
I can see that from some other posts the word "cannot" is raising some questions.
Just to clarify, was David Lean given "Final Cut" approval for the Restoration Cut (for lack of a better term) for his participation in the effort? If not, what is the locking mechanism beyond corporate dictate?

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by rich_d /t/308191/while-we-wait-for-a-few-words-about-lawrence-of-arabia-in-blu-ray/1950#post_3952405
Robert,
I can see that from some other posts the word "cannot" is raising some questions.
Just to clarify, was David Lean given "Final Cut" approval for the Restoration Cut (for lack of a better term) for his participation in the effort? If not, what is the locking mechanism beyond corporate dictate?

DL had absolute final cut, although there it was in no way tied to his participation.

RAH

 

[Allansfirebird]

Mr. Harris, I forgot to thank you for that tantalizing sample of the Bounty script from a few pages back in the thread. I always love reading DL scripts, you're able to visualize everything as you read it.
Was that a sample from the original Lean/Bolt "The Lawbreakers" script, or the final Lean/Bragg "Pandora's Box" script?

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by Allansfirebird /t/308191/while-we-wait-for-a-few-words-about-lawrence-of-arabia-in-blu-ray/1980#post_3952412
Mr. Harris, I forgot to thank you for that tantalizing sample of the Bounty script from a few pages back in the thread. I always love reading DL scripts, you're able to visualize everything as you read it.
Was that a sample from the original Lean/Bolt "The Lawbreakers" script, or the final Lean/Bragg "Pandora's Box" script?

The draft is entitled Captain Bligh.

The opening of Nostromo was equally as visual.

 

[Kosty]

I might get proven wrong, but I suspect this date is gonna be pushed back much closer to the US release date. I just can't imagine Sony would risk the loss of business on their huge collector set by having it region free and available 2 months earlier in another territory.

I don't think that the number of people that would buy the UK version would be a significant amount for them to worry about. The small hassle to do so is enough of a hurdle that most consumers would not bother or know about it at all. The amount of people that would actually order through Amazon.uk is rather small.