A Few Words About While we wait for A few words about...™ Raiders of the Lost Ark -- in Blu-ray (2 Viewers)

[Dave MJ]

So let me ask. Is there a "4K77" if you will of Raiders out there?

A little bird told me that there might be

 

[Worth]

So let me ask. Is there a "4K77" if you will of Raiders out there?

There is more of a ‘grindhouse’ scan of a 35mm print.

 

[Lord Dalek]

There is more of a ‘grindhouse’ scan of a 35mm print.

Well that's what 4k77 is.

 

[Worth]

Well that's what 4k77 is.

4K 77 is a scan of a print, but it's been nicely cleaned up. The Raiders one is more like the Empire scan, with all the dust and scratches intact.

 

[OliverK]

There is more of a ‘grindhouse’ scan of a 35mm print.

Indeed. I have seen a few caps and it probably looks closest to the 2011 Japanese HDTV version.

 

[OliverK]

The Paramount shows more grain in some sequences.

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You would expect it to show grain much better and closer to the source than the HDTV version that back then would have been relatively low bitrate MPEG 2 1080i. The high variable bitrates on caps-a-holic certainly do not indicate the bitrates when it was aired.

 

[Dave H]

You would expect it to show grain much better and closer to the source than the HDTV version that back then would have been relatively low bitrate MPEG 2 1080i. The high variable bitrates on caps-a-holic certainly do not indicate the bitrates when it was aired.

I wouldn't doubt some filtering of sorts was applied. However, I actually watched the BD last night (JVC UHD projector at 124" upscaled with Panasonic 820 player) and didn't find DNR or filtering to be problematic in motion. The color and some of the brightness are what I questioned more.

What I noticed too last night too, the blues that are used in the movie are repurposed over and over again. In other words, one scene has a certain blue-teal hue...and that same coloring is used in multiple scenes. Same with the oranges. It's a little odd. You think there would be more variance within the coloring from scene to scene. But it's as if they kept re-using the same color say on an outside door, or something inside of a room, etc. And faces, of course, exhibit a fairly consistent orange look.

On any rate, given this is rumored for a UHD BD release next year, I am curious if they are just going to carry over what was done, or use a new color timing maybe closer to the original (which is more unlikely given these things).

 

[OliverK]

I wouldn't doubt some filtering of sorts was applied. However, I actually watched the BD last night (JVC UHD projector at 124" upscaled with Panasonic 820 player) and didn't find DNR or filtering to be problematic in motion. The color and some of the brightness are what I questioned more.

What I noticed too last night too, the blues that are used in the movie are repurposed over and over again. In other words, one scene has a certain blue-teal hue...and that same coloring is used in multiple scenes. Same with the oranges. It's a little odd. You think there would be more variance within the coloring from scene to scene. But it's as if they kept re-using the same color say on an outside door, or something inside of a room, etc. And faces, of course, exhibit a fairly consistent orange look.

On any rate, given this is rumored for a UHD BD release next year, I am curious if they are just going to carry over what was done, or use a new color timing maybe closer to the original (which is more unlikely given these things).

Yes I would say grain reduction in Raiders is fairly inconspicious but you probably could also take away some actors who are in the background in some scene and nobody would notice but what's the point of doing that just because you can? That may be an extreme example but film grain was part of the original presentation and I want it intact and not taken away in any way. The reason there is so little variance in the colors is that once you push everything in one direction you do not notice nuances that much anymore as everything is under a layer of that color that is overemphasized.

The new generation of JVC projectors is very good with film grain by the way, it is my favorite in that regard among reasonably priced HT projectors.

 

[KMR]

Paramount's hatred of film grain is strong:

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There is very little film grain throughout the whole movie in the Blu-ray version and Raiders of the Lost Ark used to be quite grainy.

Of course "quite grainy" can be relative, and I haven't yet watched the Blu-ray, but there are a few impressions from a preview screening in 1981 in Tulsa that I cannot forget: I was quite struck by the sharpness of the images (not so much the optical effects sequences), and the predominant golds and greens in the color palette. In response to some other posts: Teal? Not a color that I recall at all. Again, I haven't watched the Blu-ray, so I'm not sure how well it does or does not match up with my memories of the screening. (Memories are corruptible, but I can say adamantly that the orange/teal trend is a recent thing. Blue denim never used to look so unrealistic and teal on film until recently...)

 

[Dave H]

I have a little story about Raiders. I saw it about dozen times between 1981-1982. As much as I loved Star Wars and Empire, this just surpassed them and that's saying a lot as I was a huge Star Wars fan, always played with the action figures, play sets, etc. I was 9 when Raiders came out and there was a local "dollar show" that brought back seemingly the same, worn out, ultra grainy, Grindhouse-like print every few months or so. They would only show movies which were no longer playing at the big theaters (although they never got any Star Wars movies). On a couple of occasions when the reels switched, it stop for a few minutes. Always seemed to happened around the point where Indy was showing the Government agents a picture of the ark in the book. However, that gritty, worn print look really fit the character and movie and was charming in its own way....especially now looking back.

 

[Neil S. Bulk]

On a couple of occasions when the reels switched, it stop for a few minutes. Always seemed to happened around the point where Indy was showing the Government agents a picture of the ark in the book. However, that gritty, worn print look really fit the character and movie and was charming in its own way....especially now looking back.

That's the reel change between reels 1 and 2.

 

[OliverK]

Of course "quite grainy" can be relative, and I haven't yet watched the Blu-ray, but there are a few impressions from a preview screening in 1981 in Tulsa that I cannot forget: I was quite struck by the sharpness of the images (not so much the optical effects sequences), and the predominant golds and greens in the color palette. In response to some other posts: Teal? Not a color that I recall at all. Again, I haven't watched the Blu-ray, so I'm not sure how well it does or does not match up with my memories of the screening. (Memories are corruptible, but I can say adamantly that the orange/teal trend is a recent thing. Blue denim never used to look so unrealistic and teal on film until recently...)

Quite grainy especially in the darker scenes of the movie. I remember that from seeing it in a beat up print in a cinema that certainly was well past its prime and certainly not some kind of show print. And I do not have an issue with that but I have an issue with Paramount turning it into something else.

Regarding the colors most people who went into the movies in the pre-digital era would have noticed if any movie had colors like these "reinterpretations" do today. It would have been a most unusual look and my personal opinion is that the world of movies would be better off if nobody had ever started to use it yet here we are.

 

[Dave MJ]

I have a little story about Raiders. I saw it about dozen times between 1981-1982. As much as I loved Star Wars and Empire, this just surpassed them and that's saying a lot as I was a huge Star Wars fan, always played with the action figures, play sets, etc. I was 9 when Raiders came out and there was a local "dollar show" that brought back seemingly the same, worn out, ultra grainy, Grindhouse-like print every few months or so. They would only show movies which were no longer playing at the big theaters (although they never got any Star Wars movies). On a couple of occasions when the reels switched, it stop for a few minutes. Always seemed to happened around the point where Indy was showing the Government agents a picture of the ark in the book. However, that gritty, worn print look really fit the character and movie and was charming in its own way....especially now looking back.

Great story, I had a very similar experience back in the day, when popular movies played for many months in second run theaters. I even taped Raiders (and many others) on a portable cassette recorder hidden in my sister's purse and used to listen to it constantly (before the days of movies on VHS). I still have the tapes somewhere lol. I still remember all of the reel changes in Raiders and a few other movies.

 

[Dave MJ]

Quite grainy especially in the darker scenes of the movie. I remember that from seeing it in a beat up print in a cinema that certainly was well past its prime and certainly not some kind of show print. And I do not have an issue with that but I have an issue with Paramount turning it into something else.

Regarding the colors most people who went into the movies in the pre-digital era would have noticed if any movie had colors like these "reinterpretations" do today. It would have been a most unusual look and my personal opinion is that the world of movies would be better off if nobody had ever started to use it yet here we are.

It's quite a sad situation because Spielberg declared he would no longer change his films. That's basically true for E.T. and Close Encounters. But then Raiders ended up with a revisionist color grade, remixed sound and several digitally altered shots.

 

[Dave H]

Great story, I had a very similar experience back in the day, when popular movies played for many months in second run theaters. I even taped Raiders (and many others) on a portable cassette recorder hidden in my sister's purse and used to listen to it constantly (before the days of movies on VHS). I still have the tapes somewhere lol. I still remember all of the reel changes in Raiders and a few other movies.

Oh my god, I did the same thing! I made my mother sneak in my cassette recorder in her purse. lol I only got one side of a tape recorded (30 min?) before deciding not to be interrupted from watching the rest of the movie.
However, not long after that, I had perhaps the best surprise of my life: I came home from school one day and Raiders was playing on the family room TV. Someone my father knew shared a 'rough' copy (filmed with a VHS cam?). Terrible quality, but back then it didn't matter, of course. However, I ended up getting the VHS copy for Christmas in 1983 I believe. And here it is with the upcoming Temple of Doom mention:

 

[TravisR]

However, I ended up getting the VHS copy for Christmas in 1983 I believe. And here it is with the upcoming Temple of Doom mention:

My dad bought that same release with the Temple Of Doom plug when I was a kid.

 

[Dave MJ]

Oh my god, I did the same thing! I made my mother sneak in my cassette recorder in her purse. lol I only got one side of a tape recorded (30 min?) before deciding not to be interrupted from watching the rest of the movie.
However, not long after that, I had perhaps the best surprise of my life: I came home from school one day and Raiders was playing on the family room TV. Someone my father knew shared a 'rough' copy (filmed with a VHS cam?). Terrible quality, but back then it didn't matter, of course. However, I ended up getting the VHS copy for Christmas in 1983 I believe. And here it is with the upcoming Temple of Doom mention:

I still have that VHS somewhere. It cost something like $40 in 1983. I would have loved to have the bootleg copy!

 

[Worth]

I've had Raiders on every video format, but I don't think I've ever sat down and watched the whole thing at home. I see it about once a year, but always in the theatre.

 

[Matt Hough]

Most laserdiscs were priced very expensively, but I was very surprised when Paramount listed Raiders of the Lost Ark for $24.95. I've always wondered if it was the best selling laserdisc of all time. Probably not, but I can't imagine many movie fans who had a laserdisc player not jumping on that price.

 

[Dave MJ]

I was very excited to finally get a widescreen version. It was a great transfer and excellent sound as well. Blew the existing VHS out of the water.