What may drive hirez acceptance... (1 Viewer)

[Carlo_M]

Instead you see 'estimates' that are used to support propaganda.

Other questions abound like how many people are actually even listening to everything they download.

Both good points. But in my personal experience, Michael, you, and others like you, are in the minority. I'm not tied to the RIAA or any other group. Just saying what I've personally experienced. I have known hundreds of students who have downloaded or copied thousands of music files--and not paid for it in any way.

And whether they listen to the MP3s or CD-Rs or not is really irrelevant. They downloaded in lieu of purchasing the music, and that's what RIAA and music artists are PO'd about.

I own 500+ CDs. I barely listen to them nowadays. But I still bought them and the artists got their royalties.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

I have known hundreds of students who have downloaded or copied thousands of music files--and not paid for it in any way.

I gotta belive that is at least 60-70% of new music listened to is obtained by unpaid download these days, based on conversations with my younger brothers in college. Apparently, groups of students commonly band together and pitch in for one CD to lower cost and then rip it for files to be shared with everyone.

While this is understandable, I think it is also understandable for record labels to feel they are being stolen from because they are. I have a lot of skepticism and animosity toward labels and think they are idiotic and dangerous to file lawsuits against these people-that can only make matters worse. I also believe that saying that piracy alone is responsible for the CD sales decline is just not taking responsibility for other also important factors.

But I also know how much hard work goes into music and feel strongly that the musician and label deserve their profit. If it is denied then the future of music, particularly with respect to quality content, looks awefully bleak.

I just buy CDs and SACDs and DVDAs these days because I want good resolution on my two channel system. I guess that puts me in the minority.

 

[Angelo.M]

I guess that puts me in the minority.

Right there with you, except for the SACD and DVD-A part.

Off the original topic, but not off one of our subsequent topics, my feelings about file sharing are very similar to yours, and I can say (and I'm no saint) that I've never shared copyrighted material. If I want music, I buy it. I do, however, support the principle of "fair use," and I recognize that a small portion of every blank CD sold goes back to the recording industry. So, I'll make a copy for the car, but not for my neighbor.

The music industry needs to give the consumer something they can't get from an mp3 download. Most folks are content with the quality of their downloads, so enhanced resolution isn't the answer. I think you have to provide additional content, as in a CD packaged with a bonus DVD-V. Something like that.

 

[Thomas Newton]

But I also know how much hard work goes into music and feel strongly that the musician and label deserve their profit. If it is denied then the future of music, particularly with respect to quality content, looks awefully bleak.

The ones denying the profits to the musician usually ARE the labels.

The labels' reaction to technology reminds me strongly of the minicomputer industry's reaction to PCs. The actions the industry proclaims necessary just dig the hole deeper. The actions that would allow the business to adapt to the strategic inflection point are the very ones that it is most likely to dismiss.

 

[Seth--L]

Labels have done this, and it tends to be very expensive.

During the mid '90s Sony Classical came out with a reissue line called "MasterWorks Heritage," consisting of the best-of-the-best recordings in the Columbia/Epic/CBS catalogue from 1900-1960s. The series had the best packaging I've ever seen - it was elegant, lavish, and smartly designed. CDs were packed in mini LP jackets (later releases came in jewel cases), complete with ads for other Columbia titles from the time. Whenever possible the original cover art was used or included. The inserts, printed on nice thick semi-glossy paper, included photos from the recording session (for some of us it's pretty cool to see Ormandy and Shostakovich following the score together during play-back). Essays in the inserts were mostly about the recording and the performers involved. Despite how old many of the recordings were, Sony was able to find people still alive who were involved with them, and either interviewed them or had them write some kind of essay. You ended up getting lots of great behind the scenes stories. Even the CDs themselves had cool designs on them. Quite simply, the packaging was substantial and always impressive. When you bought on of these releases you felt that you got something special. Unfortunately, the series was discontinued in the end of the 90s. Sony was losing money on it because the packaging cost so much.

Other labels (EMI, Decca and DG) have came out with similar series, but none had nearly as elaborate and professionally done packaging.

(Sony also produce night and day differences with their remastering jobs)

Anyway, if labels were smart (IMO), they should be taking more advantage of DVD-V.

 

[LanceJ]

Speaking of aiding hi-res acceptance:

Would someone please buy this mobile Pioneer dvd-audio deck and give us a review? Sure it's your money (& they don't even mention the price--uh oh) but this is all in the name of the Pursuit Of Entertainment Knowledge. Who wouldn't want to be a part of such a lofty goal???

LJ

 

[Angelo.M]

Anyway, if labels were smart (IMO), they should be taking more advantage of DVD-V.

Precisely what I've said in a number of my posts in this thread. Folks are buying DVDs in droves, and it hasn't taken long for DVD sales to outpace CD sales. By putting out more music DVD-V releases (concerts, sessions, music video compilations, etc) the labels generate interest in music and they take advantage of hardware that's already in place in millions of homes, offices, some vehicles etc and so on.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Lance,

Thanks for the link. It will be interesting to see if Pioneer puts out a universal car player as well like they do on their home gear.

Seems like the most consumer-friendly outcome for hirez would be if SACD/DVDA become like DD/DTS type standards that are included on every machine, home or auto.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Here is another interesting story that is related to hirez acceptance:

http://www.stereophile.com/shownews.cgi?1720

Could be interesting if they get this product out.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Going back to the old 'shelf space / floor space' argument that was being hashed out in this article, I stopped by Best Buy yesterday.

They used to have three sections (out of 120 for all music) for DVD-A and SACD. They have now squeezed that down to two sections. That is a drop from 2.5% to 1.67%. DVD-A has been reduced as much as SACD. They've also dropped certain titles. They used to carry the Bowie 'Heathen' SACD, and they no longer stock it. Bestbuy.com used to carry it as well; no more.

One person at the SH forums has reported that Best Buy in Canada is reducing or dropping SACD support:

I was told that if I wanted an SACD title like the new Steely Dan Gaucho on SACD I would have to come into the store and make a request then only if four or five other people make the same request they would at that point e-mail the buyer to see if he could/wants to order it. What a Mickey Mouse way of doing business. I won't waste my time on them anymore.

He goes on to state that they are still receiving DVD-A, but frankly, I'd be surprised if DVD-A remains unaffected by this for long.

Obviously this is unconfirmed (but from a reputable poster), it will be interesting to find out the whole story in the weeks to come. I'm sure there will be more Canadian forum members checking this out.

 

[rick_sullivan]

Most here think that the availability of universal players is the key but perhaps it is the home theater in a box that may be the driving force. Even the very cheap systems are impressive. I saw a $99.00 surround system at my local drug store and was quite impressed with the sound one could get for that little money. I spent better than $200.00 for my first SoundCraftsman (Fedco LA) system back in 1964 --consider the fact that I was only making $2.00 per hour! -- this $99.00 system offers a whole lot more. And even more so when one considers the average joe making $7.50 per hour.

The key will be DVD movies with surround sound on these entry systems. Listening to these low end systems I have noticed that surround tends to mask many of the flaws that are glaringly apparent in plain stereo. I think it is some psychological effect going on.

The hook is surround sound not the universal player. I think once people understand that the sound that makes the movies exciting can be had on a Bob Dylan Cd as well then the universal plyer will come into the picture.

 

[Angelo.M]

Noticed this yesterday...

Was leafing through my latest Columbia House music catalog, and saw the DVD-A of Pet Sounds. The accompanying blurb indicated that it wouldn't play in CD players but would play in DVD players/surround sound sytems. The existence of DVD-A players was not alluded to in the product description other than labelling the disc as "DVD-Audio."

As far as I know, this and Dark Side of the Moon are the only hi-rez titles in the C. House catalog.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

An update on the Canada Best Buy situation:

Here is the whole of Khorn's new post.

At 8:30 am this morning I received a call from the Regional Merchandising Manager of BestBuy. He told me that they have intentions of continuing to market SACDs and that is why they expanded the rack space from two to four units. BB only deals with domestic distributed titles up here and that puts them in a rather limited position as far as available product. He said they have to stock titles that will appeal to mass market so I asked him why then, why, when I phoned Universal they told me that you (BB) didn't order any of the new Universal titles released on Tuesday. He seemed perplexed at that and said he will be getting right on to his buyer about the situation.

He also apologized at the wrong special order info that I received and related to in a previous post. The fact is BestBuy will not under any circumstances special order any music titles as they run a bottom line low price store and if you like something that they stock, you buy it. He then proceeded to ask me what titles I wanted

I mentioned the upcoming Dylan titles and he said he had heard of Dylan so they will probably order those. I said "good idea, I suppose".

What I guess it comes down to as far as Best Buy Canada goes is they will only stock the most mass market appeal titles altough they will have to be a little more "on the ball" as far as knowing what is being released and also in their ordering practices to insure timely stocking.

It's the kind of place you drop into when convenient and if you luck out and see a title you want the price will probably be right.

The above applies to our unique situation up here in Canada, I'm sure you people south of the border have more choice of where to shop for SACD's.

For serious SACD shopping as far as getting the title that I want, when I want there is still no alternative to on-line USA ordering.

The good news is that Best Buy Canada is indeed still ordering SACDs.

But, concerns do remain, at least in Canada. Why did they not order the new Universal discs? Why are they only supporting 'mainstream' artists, when non-mainstream artists are present in the regular CD racks? What popular acts will go unordered because the manager/buyer hasn't 'heard' of them?

In the US, Bowie's 'Heathen' SACD has been removed from my local store and from Bestbuy.com. This is a pretty high-profile title. There may still be some copies out there in other Best Buy stores, but in my experience once the website drops it, it's not available for store reorder either.

It is good news that Best Buy is not dropping SACD. I would certainly like to see them buy more high-res.

I've actually shifted from buying most of my high-res online to buying it locally. The more that is bought locally, the larger the shelves will get, and the more browsing consumers will notice the discs. Unfortunately, the Best Buy selection is still small, and the local Circuit City and Borders stores don't carry any high-res (other than the occasional 'stealth' disc).

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Michael,

Why not respond in the thread specifically on the Best Buy commitment?

Besides, I already posted this information.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Lee,

1) Because you would cry that I had singled you out, that I am picking on you, that you are leaving the forum, that I'm starting a format war, and so on.
2) My original post (in this thread) on the Best Buy situation predates yours. I was simply following up.
3) You didn't already post this information. You posted an excerpt that took Khorn's overall concerns out of context and downplayed them.

You are upset when I respond your your posts and now you are upset when I do not? Talk about a paradox.

Please do not respond to my posts and I will do the same.

 

[Al B. C]

Boy! - I guess it's a good thing that a "Regional Marketing Manager" of one of the biggest mass retailers in North America has heard of Bob Dylan.

We are NOT in safe hands.

 

[Angelo.M]

I mentioned the upcoming Dylan titles and he said he had heard of Dylan so they will probably order those. I said "good idea, I suppose".

That is so classic!

Do you think he's heard of the Beatles?...

 

[Justin Lane]

Thanks Michael for posting the entire reply so we can have a fair and balanced view on the situation. I feel bad for Canadians though, as they will be missing out on alot of good Hi-res music in favor of titles only with mass appeal or that the regional manager knows about Looks like alot of Rickey Martin and Destiny's Child on SACD for our friends up north.

J

 

[Dan Stone]

Please do not respond to my posts and I will do the same.

Keep in mind that this forum, as with many other Internet forums, has an ignore function. It works wonders.

The ignore function is located in the user control panels tab on the main page for the forums for those who are unfamiliar with where to find it.

 

[Dan Stone]

of Bob Dylan.

We are NOT in safe hands.

Let's not be too hasty in judging this. Keep in mind that this 'quote' was taken out of context as a phone conversation being presented as text (without voice inflection) and also may not be complete.

How different the statement reads if the remark was actually "I mentioned the upcoming Dylan titles and he said he had heard about the Dylan SACD releases and they will probably order those."

Subtle transcription differences can sometimes make a BIG difference in intended meaning. Not saying that specifically was the intention here, but it's something to consider.