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Upgrade from Sony ES to Halo C-2, WOW!

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Mike Keith, Apr 23, 2004.

  1. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    So there were fundamental differences in what signal your sub received when the pre-pro duties were being handled by the ES as opposed to the Halo C2, yes?
     
  2. Mike Keith

    Mike Keith Second Unit

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    Yes, as far as I know only the halo has this EBASS function, the Sony and all other HT Pre/Pros will nearly compleatly kill the output level of the sub out when Front Large is selected in the setup. I have heard rumors that the Lex 12 will allow some work-around as well, but I cant confirm this.
     
  3. Mike SJ

    Mike SJ Supporting Actor

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    ...
     
  4. JackS

    JackS Supporting Actor

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    Mike- My 777es is dead quiet and assumed the 9000es to be at least its equal. I really can't handle any extra bass as I now have more than I can ever use. I think my main reason for going for the C2 might be 2 channel direct for all my CD's rather than any possible improvement in HT. What is your impression listening to music on your C2 versus your 9Kes? Having all abilities in one box plus the extra features over a two channel only system appeals to me more. My little livingroom cannot withstand the inclusion of any extra boxes.
     
  5. Mike Keith

    Mike Keith Second Unit

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    Music is just as big an improvement as Video, the dynamics are far superior and the tonal balance in the vocal region and bass are night and day better, the Music modes work very well also. I like the Natural mode best, it puts the vocals in the center channel but not as prominent as DPL II Music, which I also like, just not as real sounding as the Natural mode. It's great to hear all your 2-ch PCM CD's in full 5-ch surround, I really like the effect, makes listening off-axis much better. Another thing I like is all the possibilities with this Pre/Pro, with 3 extra output channels that can be programmed to any X-Point (independently) and a dedicated Tactile Transducer output it has great expandability, and upgradeability. BTW most don’t notice noise depending on your setup, but with an all active system the amp's outputs are directly coupled to your speakers, and I'm only 7' away from my mains so I can hear a mouse pissing on a bale of cotton through these speakers.
     
  6. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    Bingo!Chu you have guessed it. [​IMG] However your second part of your sentence is simply not true.The LFE content will remain in full tact in the .1 channel,it's output is independent of how many speakers are set to small or large.It's content and level is simply depends on the DVD mixers and not the BM in the pre/pro/receiver.What you refferring to is the extra bass that channel receives from bass redirection from any selected small speakers,however when it left large that bass stays with that speaker,and it won't "kill" the bass at the .1 channel,it simply "getting out of the way".
    At this point if you experience "bass loss" then your selected "large" speakers aren't up to the task.
    EBASS is simply "doubling up the bass" many processor calls this "LFE+Main. My Denon receiver did this as well,so is the Outlaw 950 processor on it's multichannel input,which can't be defeated.It caused some "uproar" from some critics and a likes at the time it was introduced. It doesn't bother me,as I have BFD.
     
  7. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    I was only questioning his "reasoning" behind his "enthusiasm".Also the differences are miniscule between electronics compared to the effect the room and speaker interaction can produce.
    When was a last time you read that somebody had posted that he just got a great room treatment and made all the difference?
    You know why,it would require more the "creative writing"....
     
  8. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    Is this on the director's cut of 'An American Tail-Fievel Goes West'?
     
  9. Mike Keith

    Mike Keith Second Unit

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    Well I tried to explain the best way I knew how, but I guess I didn't get my specific system requirements across very well. Anyhow my system is more unique (and far more complex) then most I guess you would have to have outboard active crossovers to fully understand what I'm saying. You are correct about this (EBASS) feature being present on some other Processors, I did a little research and it looks like several manufactures are including their own versions of this EBASS, it is however completely necessary for my system. BTW my front mains are quite capable of handling a full range signal, you shouldn’t jump to conclusions, and this ain't my first rodeo.
     
  10. Mike SJ

    Mike SJ Supporting Actor

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    ...
     
  11. Angelo.M

    Angelo.M Producer

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    [​IMG]
     
  12. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    Which further diminish upon the consumption of several bottle of beer or most of a bottle of a half way decent Meurlot...Bottoms up [​IMG]
     
  13. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    Then you shouldn't have any bass loss with any processor.
     
  14. Mike Keith

    Mike Keith Second Unit

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    Sorry I'll dumb it down a bit.

    When you set the Front to Large the LFE/Bass info for those channels is removed from the Sub output and redirected to the Main’s, most LFE/Bass is derived off the front channels, so setting Front to Large most certainly will kill the Sub output, there’s not much real bass information coming from the Center and Surround channels. My front mains are high passed on the woofer, I’m cutting them off at 62Hz on purpose, and therefore I’m losing the Front info below 62Hz that need’s to go to the Sub instead.
     
  15. Lee-M

    Lee-M Stunt Coordinator

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    Mike,

    Do you not then have the option of choosing your sub as "Super"? This will still send all the bass info to the subwoofer, as well as to the mains.

    With the proper crossover chosen*, it will help in de-localizing the lowest bass info, so it will not seem to come from one source (i.e. wherever your sub is located). It also uses the full frequency of your mains, if they are ready and willing for the challenge.


    *While I was playing around with my settings, I seem to remember cancelling out some of the bass (standing waves?) with the high-pass set at certain frequencies.
     
  16. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    Ok, so why would you need "Ebass" if no loss occurs since the lowest signal gets rerouted by your active outboard crossovers?
     
  17. Mike Keith

    Mike Keith Second Unit

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    Lewis:

    I give up trying to reason or explain my experiences with my system, your rudely combative responses no longer intrigue me enough to waste my time.. Go back to your world where talk and theory outweighs actually doing this, remember this is just a hobby, no need to use this as a medium to help you feel superior by correcting things you don’t have personal knowledge of. I have tried 3 different Processors on my system and all have the same loss of Sub output, even the Halo, unless you select EBASS, so we must agree to disagree.

    If my words cant explain what I’m doing well enough for you to not feel threatened then at least have some respect for other’s positions.

    Over and out
     
  18. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    Roger that!
     
  19. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    Now, now! I believe we'll all find the bass extension adequate if we mosey on down and get some hot wings [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Brian Corr

    Brian Corr Supporting Actor

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    Mike,
    based on your explanation, instead of setting the fronts as large and then crossing them over at 62hz externally, set them as small and cross them over in the processor at 60hz.
    This should send the LFE as well as the bass below 60hz to the sub, without using the Ebass feature.
     

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