What's new

THX specifications, where?? (1 Viewer)

RichardMA

Second Unit
Joined
Apr 16, 2002
Messages
446
I don't like THX. I used to love them. What they, Dolby, Sony and DTS accomplised with certified theatres in the early 1990s was astonishing. Finally, sound that would not only lift you out of your seat, but because of proper auditorium acoustic specs and low distortion, you could listen at high levels without having your ears burn.

Now, IMO,they are essentially running a con game with their THX and THX ultra programs, as well as their theatrical program. However, It would HELP greatly if somewhere there were concrete specs posted

for their so-called systems instead of the sales pitches

they use on their site to promote them.

A THX badge and claim of "Low noise" in a power amp means nothing without knowing a number or a measurement.

At this point, THX has convinced store owners and various

members of the public their programs produce positive

results so you see expensive processors, etc, sporting

that "THX" logo on them. I have no doubt THX does produce

"results" but exactly what kind is a mystery, except for

vague sales pitches. In fact, the only product I "think"

ever failed to get a THX badge when asked for was a

poorly designed Kenwood top line receiver from a few years

back, but it had severe problems.

somewhere
 

Luke M

Grip
Joined
May 1, 2002
Messages
15
The THX specifications are secret, of course. If they were public then the THX label would have much less value, since an unlicensed product could (truthfully) claim to meet THX specs. Less money for George Lucas, in other words.
 

Robert_Dufresne

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Mar 30, 2002
Messages
246
I agree with you Richard
Some companies like Yamaha chose not to go
with the THX certification. They have their
own standards which sometimes outperform THX.
Robert:D
 

RichardMA

Second Unit
Joined
Apr 16, 2002
Messages
446
I find it amazing they keep their specs secret when they

openly use the THX badge to sell and charge more for

products. It's like saying, "Don't asked specific questions,trust me, I'm George Lucas."

What a con.

-Rich
 

Tony Lai

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Mar 22, 2000
Messages
244
This is a conundrum.

You can sorta glean details from specs sheets of existing equipment.

ie. all the THX surround modes of preamps/receivers ('adaptive decorrelation' et.al.)

the input voltages of amps and the power capabilities ie. THX Select vs. Ultra and the minimums power and amp characteristics.

T.
 

Dave_Olds

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
188
I dont think its a big deal.....The Manufacturers have access to it, thats all that matters, if they didnt, it'd be a problem.....
For the most part, the average HT buff wouldnt understand the specs and why they would be advantageous. It would just open things up for mindless arguing....The positive is that Lucas provided a service that has increased the quality for the CONSUMER....In a sense, protecting them....If it wasnt a big deal, manufacturers would NOT adhere to the certification and ignore it. The fact that the manufacturers use this as a selling tool tells you they KNOW its a good thing....
And if THX is NOT a good thing, then its not just Lucas. Its collusion with the manufacturers as accomplices. Someone, somewhere would have spoke out about this if it wasnt a good thing....So you can look at it two ways:
1. Its a good thing accept it - the manufacturers believe in it - it helps the consumer and provides them quality stuff at a decent price...
2. Its a collusive effort with manufacturers to gain inflated pricing on their products...
I will go with #1 myself....The great thing is we have a choice. If you dont like then buy something that is not THX certified. It would be a major problem if there wasnt a choice, but there is.
So, any complaining is really misguided since there are choices.....But maybe we could get Oliver Stone to look into this some more ;)
 

Phill O

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Mar 11, 2001
Messages
128
Not to mention that THX certification is
trying to be an industry standard. There
is now THX recording studio equipment.
Just what we need, music to be recorded wrong
so that we need THX to "fix" the errors.
Whats next the THX toaster? I think THX has done
a great job early on it fixing theater sound in the
"old" days. But I feel that Tomlinson Holman has
more learn still about home audio. 10.2 audio! come
on now, that is just getting silly. I bet allot of
speaker manufacturers would love 10.2 audio.;)
P.S. If the movie sound track was recorded properly
(for the home) there would be no need for any ReEQ.
 

Greg_R

Screenwriter
Joined
Apr 9, 2000
Messages
1,996
Location
Portland, OR
Real Name
Greg
There are different certifications for each area (home computer, theater, Home theater, recording studio, etc.). After hearing from manufacturers who have gone through the process (see AVS forum link above) I feel that THX certification is very important for processors (receivers, pre/pros) as well as DVD players. How many THX certified DVD players have had problems playing certain DVD titles? Every complaint I see in the Software forum is about an Apex, Toshiba, or other non-certified player. FWIW, I've never had any problems with my Pioneer DV-05...

THX amps need to be able to drive a 3.6ohm load at unspecified distortion and power levels.
 

Dave_Olds

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
188
Well, I think this Onkyo 600/700 thing is a classic case of what good can come from THX....

Isnt it better to have a lab with no bias towards any particular manufacturer check the specs? Otherwise MFGs can just run amok with their own criteria....
 

RichardMA

Second Unit
Joined
Apr 16, 2002
Messages
446
Thanks for posting those links. They at least provided a

small amount of "specs" from which to derive a conclusion.

Too bad my conclusion is that THX is continually looking

for greater revenue streams at the cost of their formerly

excellent program.
 

Lewis Besze

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 28, 1999
Messages
3,134
I dont think its a big deal.....The Manufacturers have access to it, thats all that matters, if they didnt, it'd be a problem..
Actually they don't,at least not all of them.

THX evaluate every product the manufacturers submit for certification,and they either pass or fail,simple is that.
 

Andrew_Ballew

Second Unit
Joined
Feb 21, 2002
Messages
294
THX evaluate every product the manufacturers submit for certification,and they either pass or fail,simple is that.
I seriously doubt that the manufacturers are just churning out equipment designs left and right and just sending them up to THX praying they meet the criteria. That would be a complete waste of money and resources. I am sure the manufacturer knows exactly what is required to build a THX spec receiver, amp, pre-amp or DVD player- certification comes when the gurus at THX test it and make sure the manufacturer has indeed built it to spec.
 

Lewis Besze

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 28, 1999
Messages
3,134
Well, you can belive what you want,however THX never fully disclosed to any manufacturer all the requirements.They provide guide lines though.

Further more if one would test bench a certified product one would know/see that it isn't that difficult to meet with those requirement.Of course licencees are somewhat a different matter all togheter.
 

GordonL

Supporting Actor
Joined
Feb 14, 2000
Messages
771
I don't know that any manufacturer knows all the requirements, but if the manufacturer is not made aware of what causes a product to fail, then the manufacturer can not fix it to make it compliant. So its not as simple as "either pass or fail". Based on what failed, they can infer, with reasonable certainty, what the requirements are. Another component of the THX certification process which you all don't seem to grasp is the usability factor. It's not just does this product meet a measurable requirement, but how easy is it to use and how logical is the design. I suggest you all re-read the thread from AVSForum. Certification is not as trivial as some of you make it out to be.
 

RichardMA

Second Unit
Joined
Apr 16, 2002
Messages
446
Does anyone think any competent component won't meet the

THX (or Ultra) specs? We don't know what those specs

are, but when one company (Bryston) offers both THX

and non-THX amplifiers that are identical, it's clear

at least one company already and easily met the THX specs.

Look at the dynamic headroom of receivers, it's generally

poor compared to seperate power amps, but there are a few

that meet THX's specs. Does anyone really think Outlaw,

Anthem, Krell, etc, would fail a THX test?

As I said, the only product that I know that did fail was

a Kenwood receiver of with known problems (at the time).

If anyone knows of any "good" equipment that failed to meet

a THX spec, I'd like to know about it.
 

GordonL

Supporting Actor
Joined
Feb 14, 2000
Messages
771
What most people don't seem to understand about THX is that they've made things very simple—they're not trying to make things complicated. They eliminate a lot of guesswork by controlling all of the sensitivity standards for the amps, processors, and speakers. If you took a system of THX components and just threw them in a room without paying attention to setup, as long as you set all the controls to zero, there's a pretty good chance that you'd get sound that wasn't too far removed from the way a dubbing stage calibrates. You could achieve that sound without THX-certified stuff, but you'd need some calibration gear for sure. That's the program's intent—to make it simple and repeatable.
 

RichardMA

Second Unit
Joined
Apr 16, 2002
Messages
446
If you take any equipment and throw it in a room,

especially the average home listening room, you'll end

up with a disaster. Everything has to be calibrated.

I've got the "THX Audio System Home Equalization Manual."

To use it to calibrate the room/equipment you need some

sound equipment, maybe including THX's own acoustic analyser.

The good thing is that the calibration parameters are not rock solid, there is a good deal of latitude in them. It specifically says you try to get a reasonably flat frequency response but not to go overboard with equalization. In addition to going by this guide, reading and understanding the "The Master Handbook of Acoustics" by F. Alton Everest (with information derived by the BBC recording studios) will help people deal effectively with less than perfect listening environments and the environment will effect the sound more by far than whether the equipment is THX certified or not. What is important if the room cannot be radically modified for sound is to have comprehensive controls in the processor since they are the only variables you'll have at your disposal to modify the sound and correct any problems.
 

Anthony June

Agent
Joined
May 18, 2002
Messages
28
With all do respect I happen to have a lot of experience with THX systems and and their set up and I am just curious if you have, What we know is that THX is designed to take the original sound and reproduce that in the Theater/Home environment as best as possible. It also allows you to use different speaker manufacturers and still achieve the same consistent experience.

The other thing that THX does is look at things like on screen menu's, how easy is it to set up or do advanced applications, so all of these things as well as the secret standards are designed to give you an enjoyable experience.

And as for many quality manufacturers that make products that if tested would easily meet THX standards they can choose to pay the licensing fee for a logo that signals to most consumers that additional standards have been adhered to and they can benefit from it, or they can just do some comparative shopping.

Who else is willing to set a standard in this vast industry? I do know that several manufacturers and even Producers send products to THX for licensing and or mastering and then after receiving the feed back on what needs to be done they bail and and get a few pointers in

how to enhance there product.

And as for paying more for it capitalism is what drives the economy as well as the inventions.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Forum Sponsors

Forum statistics

Threads
348,402
Messages
4,844,329
Members
142,311
Latest member
AaronChi
Recent bookmarks
0
Top