The $40,000 Harley-Davidson ??? (1 Viewer)

[alan halvorson]

I rode motorcycles way back in my youth but eventually got away from them. Still, whenever I see one, I always look. Last Friday I went to the Minnesota State Fair. There a local dealer was displaying three dozen or Harleys. One of the first I looked at - something called a VRod - sported a list price of $39,990! Although it was a V-Twin and had a Harley emblem on it, it really didn't look like a traditional Harley. The frame tubes were larger and painted a light grey instead of black, and each cylinder had its own exhaust system.

What in the world is there about this motorcycle, or any non-racing motorcycle, that could make it worth nearly $40G? This particular bike was not tricked out - it was rather plain - and so accessories were not bumping the price. I suspect it has something to do with this "VRod" thing, but come on - this is a motorcycle and it only had two cylinders.

 

[brentl]

I won't get into the same discussion I usually do with my buddy, but I don't think Harleys are worth half of what they ask!

People buy them because of the heritage ...BLAH! If that was the case we'ed all be driving 1978 Buick Regals.

Brent

 

[Steve_Tk]

What in the world is there about this motorcycle, or any non-racing motorcycle, that could make it worth nearly $40G?

I had someone say the exact same thing to me when I spent 3G on a tv. They were speechless and said I was absolutely crazy.

Different people value different things. It's hard to place a price tag on something that is relatively unimportant and worthless to ourself. Too me, I think it's crazy to save up for a year to go on vacation. We are talking about 1 week for thousands of dollars?? No one week is worth that price. But people do it all the time. And I try to understand that everyone values things differently, no matter how crazy it is .

 

[Jack Briggs]

Alan, things have changed since you rode. Many motorcycles clock in at automtive prices (and not "econocar" prices). The V-Rod is, in truth, the only "modern" H-D in existence; it's the first truly "new" bike the Milwaukee company has designed in nearly a half-century: a DOHC, eight-valve V-Twin (all other H-Ds are still OHV, 45-degree V-Twins of yesteryear vintage). It's a limited-production machine, too.

Check out the price of a top-of-the-line six-cylinder, 1800cc Honda GoldWing, too.

Buying a motorcycle is ever bit as much a financial commitment as buying a car.

 

[Jack Briggs]

Though it must be pointed out that, unlike the Japanese and British and Italian manufacturers, H-D required outside help to design its first new engine in a half-century (from Porsche).

 

[wally]

Check out the price of a top-of-the-line six-cylinder, 1800cc Honda GoldWing, too.

A 6 cylinder motorcycle? I just purchased my first V6 car in November!

Behind again. :frowning:

 

[Philip_G]

yes, it's a flat 6.

I won't comment ont he V-rod

 

[Philip Hamm]

The V-Rod list price is around $20K. If a dealer told you that the LIST PRICE is near $40K you should report them to Harley-Davidson corporate, they will give them hell.

When the V-Rod first came out they were being sold at a huge markup, mid to high 20s for an example. It was a really different motorcycle from H-D. It featured a very high performance water cooled engine designed and built in Germany by Porshe. It was and is so radically different that very few people wanted one. They got them fast, then H-D ended up with a lot of unsold V-Rods.

Then the maintenance procedures hit. Simple stuff like changing the oil require a hell of a lot of work, way more work than on any other motorcycle (even something exotic like a Ducati). (The Porshe design philosophy of performance over everything, even service, showing). Valve adjustments (which are routine maintenance on most motorcycles including the V-Rod, but no other H-D bikes) require dropping the engine, and cost nearly $1000. And the valve adustment interval is frequent! The maintenance price of those things is astronomical.

Owners who just had to have the latest and greatest from Harley are now wondering just how much better off they'd be with a less expensive to own and more traditional Dyna or Softail model.

Now you can pick up low mileage used V-Rods everywhere for cheap. And most dealers have them to sell new, and they're even willing to deal!

I suspect that the dealer who you have been exposed to is unscrupulous (unfortunately many of the newer Harley Dealers are - that's a long story). They may be trying to hit some of the people who may have seen some of the Harley V-Rod specials that were on Discovery and TLC last year and who are unaware of the bike's current "dog" status.

Take a look at what they're going for on EBay Motors these days.

 

[Jack Briggs]

Special TV programs for the hold-your-breath special moment when H-D actually creates a new machine. Honda designs new engines, it seems, on a monthly basis.

 

[Philip_G]

Special TV programs for the hold-your-breath special moment when H-D actually creates a new machine. Honda designs new engines, it seems, on a monthly basis.

you noticed also?

my other pet peeve, it took YEARS to develop that bike, the amount of development honda or yamaha would do in one model year.

 

[Shawn C]

V-Rod -- Welcome to the 1980's, Harley!

Isn't the retail in the VROD something like $17,995?

my other pet peeve, it took YEARS to develop that bike, the amount of development honda or yamaha would do in one model year.

Yeah, but I WAS impressed with all of the new tooling they put together to make that bike. They must have spent a fortune on all of the new robotics and aluminum welding machines. It looks like someone over there is finally getting the point.


Me, I'll keep the RUNE

 

[Philip_G]

Psh, I'm waiting for the new mille

 

[Eric Kahn]

I am trying to keep the electrical system on my old shovelhead running, I think the ghost of lucas is possesing it, engine runs great, can't keep the lights working

 

[Jay H]

Call me a cyclist lurking in the motorized bike variety thread here... Shawn, that front suspension fork looks almost like a 4-bar linkage, i.e. the travel of the wheel is not linear like say a simply air/oil shock contected to the axle of the wheel. Looking at the setup, as the wheel moves through it's travel it looks like it would move in a curved pattern with larger bumps causing the wheel to move. How does it feel on the road?

My first FS mountainbike was from K2 (formerly Girven, then Proflex, now K2) and they were famous in their linkage forks (Vector 3) which looked similar to the fork on your motorcycle..

just curious...

Jay

 

[Philip Hamm]

my other pet peeve, it took YEARS to develop that bike, the amount of development honda or yamaha would do in one model year.

It takes Honda/Yamaha/BMW/Whoever just as long to develop new bikes as it took Harley to develop the V-Rod. Where did you get the idea that they have such short development cycles?

 

[Jonathan T]

It takes Honda/Yamaha/BMW/Whoever just as long to develop new bikes as it took Harley to develop the V-Rod. Where did you get the idea that they have such short development cycles?

The companies are larger, I believe make and sell more bikes and have more money. They probably can commit more peopleand money to designing a bike than H-D can. Plus, they don't need help designing an engine the way H-D did. I'm no motorcycle person though. I have much love for the cars.

 

[Philip_G]

It takes Honda/Yamaha/BMW/Whoever just as long to develop new bikes as it took Harley to develop the V-Rod. Where did you get the idea that they have such short development cycles?

how often does HD make a MAJOR change to one of their products? basically never.

the japanese, english, italians have something new every year, they might be on a 3-4 year development cycle but most every bike is tweaked yearly

 

[Jack Briggs]

Philip, you remember the Honda CBX of course. Honda took that machine from concept to six-cylinder Superbike reality in just a year and a half.

 

[Philip_G]

Philip, you remember the Honda CBX of course. Honda took that machine from concept to six-cylinder Superbike reality in just a year and a half.

I think their market is just so much more competive they have to be able to do that, suzuki caught everyone off guard with the new gsxr 1k a couple years ago and yamaha had to play catch up. Sportbikes become obsolete even quicker than PC's it seems. Just a few years ago your average literbike was just over 100hp, now the new 600's from every brand are pushing 110hp. That's INSANE. I don't even want to think about the weight decrease that has come along with it.

I think the new casting process yamaha is using is more significant than any work HD did on the V rod, but you won't hear anything about it, however the V rod is a quick bike for a cruiser, quicker than the vtx1800 and the yamaha v star warrior, though I seem to remember reading the handling on the rod is pretty wonky, I'd believe it from the looks of that rake. There's a guy here in town running around on a V rod with hard bags, plastic, painted to match hard bags like you'd expect on a BMW K bike or aprilia futura, go figure.


Anyway, I'm sure that is why HD's can command the price they do, and hold their value, the next lighter, faster, meaner machine isn't going to come down the road next year.

 

[Jack Briggs]

Nice post, Philip. Perhaps I should have added the last name, as I was directing my CBX comment to Mr. Hamm, former-HTF-admin-in-great-standing.

But I agree with you, obviously. The Big Four routinely design new engines, new running gear, new frames, new this, and new that without the benefit of History Channel special editions of Modern Marvels and such.

Even the relatively under-capitalized Italian manufacturers are way closer to the technology cutting edge than H-D seems capable of. And when the Triumph marque was resurrected in 1991, the world was treated to an entire lineup of modern motorcycles with multi-cylinder, DOHC, four-valves-per-cylinder engines.

And the American startup from Polaris, Victory, trumped H-D's "technology" in one fell swoop.

Look, I've heard and read so many rumors about a "new Harley" throughout the decades. In the mid-1970s, an OHC Sportster was the rage of the rumor mill among the moto-journalists. Never happened. H-D claimed not to have enough money to complete the project (meanwhile, Honda introduced that year an SOHC 1000cc flat four, a retooled SOHC air-cooled inline Four, and a completely revamped CB750F; Suzuki unleashed a Wankel-powered machine; Yamaha a DOHC inline Triple; and Kawasaki pumped more horses into its mighty Z-1 903).

Then, in the early 1980s, the motopress spread the latest, hottest rumor out of Milwaukee: the liter-class, liquid-cooled V-Four Nova. Never happened. H-D claimed not to have enough money to complete the project (meanwhile, Honda introduced an entire lineup of DOHC V-Fours; Yamaha unleashed the reborn two-stroke in the RZ350 and the FJ1100; Kawasaki sent the Superbike world reeling with the original liquid-cooled GPz908 Ninja; and Suzuki threw a touring bike and a series of [ugly] power cruisers called the Meduras, etc.).

H-D, as former Cycle magazine associate editor Paul Carrithers put it, is famous for making internal-combustion fashion statements rather than competitive motorcycles.

But it has paid off, obviously. (Though, in the early 1980s, when it looked as if the Motor Company was about to bite the dust, H-D successfully lobbied the White House to slap a stupid tariff on all Japanese machines of 700cc and above. Being more technologically adept might have helped more.)