Technicolor in MoMA restoration of The Adventures of Robin Hood (1938) (1 Viewer)

[Stefan Andersson]

Interesting discussion about the appearance of Technicolor in MoMA´s restoration of The Adventures of Robin Hood (1938):

Recent Film Restorations - Page 39 - criterionforum.org

Discussion starts with post 968.

Relevant quote from David Neary, who saw this restoration in 2015:
"a new restoration undertaken by MoMA’s Peter Williamson. The print looks completely different to almost any version of it seen in the past 75 years, with the colours far less saturated, and far less blatantly Technicolor – similar to its contemporary A Star Is Born. The film looks far more natural now, although the classic Technicolor triggers, especially purple, still pop in costumes during the archery tournament."
Source: https://thefilmcricket.wordpress.com/2015/07/09/moma-technicolor-part-1/

 

[Robert Harris]

Interesting discussion about the appearance of Technicolor in MoMA´s restoration of The Adventures of Robin Hood (1938):

Recent Film Restorations - Page 39 - criterionforum.org

Discussion starts with post 968.

Relevant quote from David Neary, who saw this restoration in 2015:
"a new restoration undertaken by MoMA’s Peter Williamson. The print looks completely different to almost any version of it seen in the past 75 years, with the colours far less saturated, and far less blatantly Technicolor – similar to its contemporary A Star Is Born. The film looks far more natural now, although the classic Technicolor triggers, especially purple, still pop in costumes during the archery tournament."
Source: https://thefilmcricket.wordpress.com/2015/07/09/moma-technicolor-part-1/

They’ve gone with the original look of the film. Very interesting to compare vs a more modern look that would have been used for later re-prints.

 

[JoeDoakes]

Is this something likely to be available to the public?

 

[Robert Harris]

Is this something likely to be available to the public?

Doubtful. It’s more of an archival experiment, and the reality is that the general public probably wouldn’t like it. For cinephiles and archivists only.

I applaud the fact that it’s been done, but now what, unless MOMA attempts to license the film for a special edition.

How many collectors would pay $75-100 for it?

Same thing was done a number of years ago with The Garden of Allah. Scott MacQueen did a gorgeous 3-strip restoration at UCLA with a more modern Technicolor approach, and MOMA followed it up with a restoration more in tune with original 1936 prints.

Comparing the two, which are extremely different concepts based upon the same elements, are a master’s class in the power of three-strip Technicolor and how it can be printed.

 

[Capt D McMars]

Doubtful. It’s more of an archival experiment, and the reality is that the general public probably wouldn’t like it. For cinephiles and archivists only.

I applaud the fact that it’s been done, but now what, unless MOMA attempts to license the film for a special edition.

How many collectors would pay $75-100 for it?

Same thing was done a number of years ago with The Garden of Allah. Scott MacQueen did a gorgeous 3-strip restoration at UCLA with a more modern Technicolor approach, and MOMA followed it up with a restoration more in tune with original 1936 prints.

Comparing the two, which are extremely different concepts based upon the same elements, are a master’s class in the power of three-strip Technicolor and how it can be printed.

If anything, it would be nice to be able to compair the 2 versions. If not avalble to purchase, perhapes a means of viewing the MOMA colorations might be enlightening to movie lovers that want to see what they are talking about. I have seen and own the Kino "Garden of Allah" and the recent edition of "A Star is Born", both were more "Gossamer" in color pallet, not as intense, like "Ivanhoe" or "the Three Musketeers" coming out of WAC.

In many respects visually, you can see the progression from the two strip color process of say the Fairbanks presentation of "The Black Pirate" being elevated to the three strip process. Both, to my eye, has that almost dreamlike visual color scale to them. More to the cooler side of the pallet less intense , rather than the warmer side with the poping reds, blues and yellows that mant associate with Technicolor Productions.

I know many times here on the forum there are those wanting to see as exactly as possible, a representaion of how the films would have looked "on screen" or as presented originally. I'm sure that those would love to be better educated on this in order to better understand the history of the films that we love so much!!

 

[RobertMG]

Doubtful. It’s more of an archival experiment, and the reality is that the general public probably wouldn’t like it. For cinephiles and archivists only.

I applaud the fact that it’s been done, but now what, unless MOMA attempts to license the film for a special edition.

How many collectors would pay $75-100 for it?

Same thing was done a number of years ago with The Garden of Allah. Scott MacQueen did a gorgeous 3-strip restoration at UCLA with a more modern Technicolor approach, and MOMA followed it up with a restoration more in tune with original 1936 prints.

Comparing the two, which are extremely different concepts based upon the same elements, are a master’s class in the power of three-strip Technicolor and how it can be printed.

To bad WBs would not simply release it as a 2 disc set a 4K of the restored modern version and a blu ray of a restored 1938 look in one set

 

[Capt D McMars]

To bad WBs would not simply release it as a 2 disc set a 4K of the restored modern version and a blu ray of a restored 1938 look in one set

It's probably an issue of retrun on investment, as opposed to a interesting edition. Maybe if they do a 4K of TARH it might come up, it sure would be nice to have that option, right?

 

[Garysb]

It would be nice if TCM or HBOMAX made both versions of "The Adventures of Robin Hood" available along with one of the Technicolor documentaries which hopefully would explain what 3 strip Technicolor looked like in the late 1930's.

 

[RobertMG]

Celebrating Natalie Kalmus, the Color Director Behind Hollywood's Early Technicolor Films

It’s been reported that when Dorothy first stepped out from her sepia, tornado-ravaged home into the multicolored wonderland of Munchkin Country, an audible gasp ran through movie theaters across America. In an instant, audiences were transported to a Technicolor world, never to look back. Hollywood

eyeondesign.aiga.org

By the late 1930s, as directors and technicians grew familiar with Technicolor technology, they started to play around with its possibilities. Kalmus, however, stuck to her tried-and-true methods. She insisted to Michael Curtiz, director of The Adventures of Robin Hood, that the colors be toned down, lest the film look like a comic book. “But Natalie, that’s what we’re going for,” he replied. Indeed, the film went on to be lauded for its striking use of color.

Famed producer David O. Selznick had already worked with Technicolor by the time he was making Gone With the Wind, and had zero patience for Kalmus. “The Technicolor experts have been up to their old tricks of putting all sorts of obstacles in the way of real beauty,” he wrote in a memo. The final straw was an unpleasant dispute over the wallpaper in Scarlett O’Hara’s bedroom, following which Selznick forced Technicolor to remove Kalmus from the film (she was still credited).

In response to Kalmus’ rule about clashing colors, Cecil DeMille fumed “Well it’s too bad the good Lord up in heaven didn’t have a Technicolor consultant when he made apples and oranges!”

 

[Robert Harris]

It would be nice if TCM or HBOMAX made both versions of "The Adventures of Robin Hood" available along with one of the Technicolor documentaries which hopefully would explain what 3 strip Technicolor looked like in the late 1930's.

Actually, it would not. Can’t image them compressed in broadcast.

 

[JoeDoakes]

Doubtful. It’s more of an archival experiment, and the reality is that the general public probably wouldn’t like it. For cinephiles and archivists only.

I applaud the fact that it’s been done, but now what, unless MOMA attempts to license the film for a special edition.

How many collectors would pay $75-100 for it?

Same thing was done a number of years ago with The Garden of Allah. Scott MacQueen did a gorgeous 3-strip restoration at UCLA with a more modern Technicolor approach, and MOMA followed it up with a restoration more in tune with original 1936 prints.

Comparing the two, which are extremely different concepts based upon the same elements, are a master’s class in the power of three-strip Technicolor and how it can be printed.

As Robin Hood seems a highly possible Warner 4K release, it would be terrific if this alternate was an extra. Unfortunately, it seems like much of what MOMA has never leaves midtown Manhattan.

 

[JoshZ]

Celebrating Natalie Kalmus, the Color Director Behind Hollywood's Early Technicolor Films

It’s been reported that when Dorothy first stepped out from her sepia, tornado-ravaged home into the multicolored wonderland of Munchkin Country, an audible gasp ran through movie theaters across America. In an instant, audiences were transported to a Technicolor world, never to look back. Hollywood

eyeondesign.aiga.org

Very interesting article. Thanks for sharing.

I'm still left torn, however. It seems that, regardless of what the Technicolor consultant argued for at the time, Curtiz wanted Robin Hood to have more vibrant, comic book-like colors. I'd be very interested to see the alternate version, but I think I'd still have to side with the director's intention (even if he was being a sexist ass in dealing with it).

 

[RobertMG]

Very interesting article. Thanks for sharing.

I'm still left torn, however. It seems that, regardless of what the Technicolor consultant argued for at the time, Curtiz wanted Robin Hood to have more vibrant, comic book-like colors. I'd be very interested to see the alternate version, but I think I'd still have to side with the director's intention (even if he was being a sexist ass in dealing with it).

My pleasure!!!! I agree with your thoughts

 

[RobertMG]

As Robin Hood seems a highly possible Warner 4K release, it would be terrific if this alternate was an extra. Unfortunately, it seems like much of what MOMA has never leaves midtown Manhattan.

Wouldn't they needed WBs okay to restore that version WB is the owner

 

[mskaye]

Wouldn't they needed WBs okay to restore that version WB is the owner

They can do anything they want with the version they have but apart from a screening at MOMA it's not going anywhere. Per RH - "Doubtful. It’s more of an archival experiment, and the reality is that the general public probably wouldn’t like it. For cinephiles and archivists only."

 

[RobertMG]

They can do anything they want with the version they have but apart from a screening at MOMA it's not going anywhere. Per RH - "Doubtful. It’s more of an archival experiment, and the reality is that the general public probably wouldn’t like it. For cinephiles and archivists only."

THANK YOU!

 

[Robert Harris]

 

[RobertMG]

View attachment 180622


View attachment 180623

Looks like a medieval painting!

 

[Robert Harris]

Looks like a medieval painting!

Note how soft the image is. Totally different resolution that prints derived from later matrices, mordant, etc.

 

[Robert Harris]

Normally, if a venue desires to run a non-studio print, there are payments and permissions.