Stryke AV15 vs. PE 15" Titanic III (1 Viewer)

[Michael__M]

I am always amused at threads in which retailers take pot shots at each other. 'Leaking' out info like that (true our not) is damaging to both you guys. I would try and settle whatever grudge it is you guys have behind closed doors. Poor form I would say.

 

[Kyle Richardson]

Huh? I'm not sure where you see pot shots taken at different companies? Heck, I only see the discussion based around Stryke and no other retail company.

 

[Michael__M]

Sorry guys,

Maybe I'm reading too much into it. I remember reading a thread a while back where John and Tom/Ron were going at each other about the specs of the TC drivers they were both using.

Edit: I am talking specifically about the possible damage to SVS business because of the negative press on TC. I don't argue the situation between TC and SVS. I am only concerned with the two members of our forum.



Everyone knows that SVS sources some of it's drivers from TC sounds also. Letting this cat out the bag along with the other QC issues would lead one to believe that the SVS products would likely have similar problems as described. I do believe that John is speaking the truth but I just think that some discretion should be used when the info you are releasing could do damage to a fellow retailer. Especially on a forum such as this where both retailers derive much of their business, insinuations spread like wildfire and half-truths become reality on a daily basis.

John could have simply presented that he had broken ties with TC and that the line of subs in question did not meet his specs. He did not have to elaborate the details of how poor a company he believes TC is. That starts running over onto SVS territory.

I have no ties with either of these guys. I just see things like this and it gets to me sometimes. I own a small business also and would hate to be blind sided with things like this on a forum.

Michael

 

[Rory Buszka]

John

Picture this: For your SQ woofers, how about a striking black woven glass fiber cone with an aluminum inverted dustcap like on the AV12? One of those would look stunning in any of your awesomely-finished sub enclosures.

I didn't mean to play up the whole SVS/TC Sounds Financial Problem thing as much as it has been played up here. I was just wondering about that, if something like that were to ever happen. Perhaps all John was saying would be that it would cost too much money that would be better spent on developing a superior product. The idea that TC sounds was having difficulty AT ALL was based entirely on my own jumping to conclusions*. I'm afraid I am the epicenter of all this. I guess this is one of those times I need to sincerely apologize for being dumb. I am sorry that I disturbed the tranquility of the forum with my unthinking remarks that have caused this uproar. Don't blame John for trying to take cheap shots at his competitors when it was really me who first attached a meaning on to John's statements. I don't want to see this thread turned into a mud-fest.

*All John said was that, given the TC Sounds current financial situation, it wasn't worth his (John's) time to bother pressing the matter very far. It is very possible that it simply wouldn't have been worth spending John's money (which he needs in order to continue growing and improving his business) paying for the costs involved in filing lawsuits and taking matters to court and whatnot, all of which carry gold-plated price tags.



Sounds like he's selling a heck of a lot more than "Bang"!

On a side note, those Center Point speakers sound like they're really something! Especially if they can deliver the same flat frequency response all across their dispersion angles. That means you can sit in many different places with respect to the speakers and still get practically the same great sound. Also, the woofer and tweeter elements are perfectly time-aligned, and the concentric mounting can only help the imaging. I'd expect them to provide the same imaging as single driver speakers are famous for.

 

[John E Janowitz]

Michael_M,

You may be right. I do find it very disturbing though when an OEM manufacturer illegally sells drivers which I rejected with my company name on them. Not only did they cause me great problems with the number of woofers that have failed and I had to replace myself, but now they are putting out more drivers that are likely to fail under the Stryke name. I have already had one customer buy one of the drivers from the TC clearance and call me asking me to replace it because the VC is rubbing. I cannot possibly build a good reputation if other people are out there trying to destroy it for me. I have asked TC to remove the Stryke name from all posts and they have refused to do so. I feel this is very bad business practice.

John

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

>>>Everyone knows that SVS sources some of it's drivers from TC sounds also. Letting this cat out the bag along with the other QC issues would lead one to believe that the SVS products would likely have similar problems as described.

 

[Seth_L]

That's 1-way xmax right, not peak to peak?

Also, will these motors have low Le (inductance)?

 

[John E Janowitz]

Seth,

Yes, 40mm one way. The limiting factor right now is the basket design that does not allow enough inward travel. There are a couple options to get past that and I am exploring those now.

The other 3" coil driver I did before, the HE15, had an Le of from 6-10mH depending on the coil used. The Tumult has an Le of 4.2mH. I'll be adding a combination of copper and or aluminum to fix the inductance issue. I should be able to get Le down to under 2mH.

John

 

[Stephen Hopkins]

Do the AV12 MK1s have reliability problems like the AV15 MK1s evidently have? I replaced the Shiva in my 5.35 cu ft ported enlcosure about 7 months ago and have been very happy with it so far (just changed the tune to better match the AV12) but would probably sell it and go with a new AV15 or Tumult if i'm probably going to have problems with my AV12 MK1.

Thanks...

 

[Allen Ross]

i believe he sent a bad shipment to TC before they got a chance to sell, if you bought it from Stryke or AC then i think you are fine. Also he only mentioned the AV 15, but i am not sure.

 

[Bryan Michael]

i have a few questons about the av15. i have 3 2 from the first batch and 1 from the seccond. pre order. the first 2 do botom out on lotr with around 500 wats and 110db. 740l tuned to 17 hz and my sealed sub 2cubic feet in the car with 500 wats. seccond pre order. i try to keep the subs from being over driven and keep a low thd level.


what should i look for as signs of troubble and if i want to step up into the new moddles aka 40 mm xmax would there be any to get a trade in value for my av 15?

 

[Eric Eash]

i think when it comes to consumer products, everyone has the right to know the truth, whether it hurts another company or not. in this case, i don't think any damage was done, and everyone knows about SVS' customer service even if there was a problem. i just want bass, and i need a tumult killer.

eric

 

[Kyle Richardson]

To my knowledge SVS never received any defective drivers from TC (as concerned with this problem) and shouldnt even be in this conversation at all. Just because they purchase drivers from the same build house doesnt mean they also received defective drivers and by bringing up their name discredits their reliability, and thus, their reputation.

 

[Sebastian]

Hmm,
Well does TC have QC issues or was the single spider AV (MKI) series just a bad design?
Who designed it with single spider, TC or John J?
If John did, sounds more like a poorly engineered driver than a manufacturing issue???
I have the AV12 MKII and now I am wondering about this drivers reliability.

 

[Stephen Hopkins]

I wouldn't be overly concerned with the MKII drivers since it sounds like they corrected the problem that was apparently only an issue in one batch of original AV15s. I'm still interested to hear John's comments on the original AV12s and their reliability and if the reliability issues are (hopefully) localized to the one bad batch of original AV15s.

 

[John E Janowitz]

Sebastian,

Many things lead to the rubbing/bottoming coils. The first batch of AV15's had coils off center so that they would hit the backplate at 19mm inward travel. The coils were designed by TC and the suspension picked by TC. I was never made aware that the mass of the coil was too much to be supported by the original suspension. I admit that I did not know as much as I should have about driver design, or I would have questioned things more and had more prototypes done. I was trusting in a manufacturer that had years of experience because I did not know enough on my own.

The rubbing coils are more common on the AV15's because the surround is softer and does not offer as much support as on the AV12's. The misaligned coils were only on the very first run of 15's.

I have learned a lot on driver design over the past couple years. I learned a magnetics FEA software package and can now model woofer motors and calculate BL curves. I can back calculate parameters and get a good idea of what a driver will do before ever building one. Building the drivers here now puts all control in my hands. I control parts supply, build times, repairs, and build quality.

John

 

[Eric Eash]

is this directed at me?

 

[Wayne Ernst]

OK, since we're not talking about subwoofers, but rather TC again, I have some comments that I was going to make before, but didn't since we were talking about subs at the time. Anyway, here goes.

Sure, a company like "X" can get a good response from a company, well call the company "ABC" for the sake of this discussion. Company "X" is a "gold level" customer and has a $2 million dollar account with ABC each year. Company "Y" on the other hand, is not a gold level customer because they only spend $2,000 per year. Company "Y" doesn't have a dedicated customer service rep. at ABC because they don't do enough volume.

If company "Y" wants ABC to work on developing a new product for them, ABC will do it, but probably won't devote as much time in the R&D and the QC in the product as they would for company "X."

OK, we now understand that a company as big as SVS will get a bit more attention because of their volume as opposed to a company like Stryke who has a lesser volume. It's a fact of life.

Now, lets talk about subwoofers again.

 

[John E Janowitz]

Wayne has a very good point unfortunately. IT happens over and over again. I plan to change that around here. I will be manufacturing woofers for several other small "non gold level" companies. The way I will be working things, I can do custom runs of as little as 25 woofers per release where other companies require 100, 200, or even more just for an initial order. In addition to selling woofers myself, I want to help out some of the others that got started the way I did, doing what they love.

John

 

[Kyle Richardson]

Nope, not directed at anybody. I just brought it up because SVS was brought into the conversation and I felt people might be getting the idea that they had defective drivers as well because they source drivers from the same build house.