Still the best?! (1 Viewer)

[Anthony_J]

Soul Caliber is definitely one of the best, except for the cheesy dialogue for the fights.

"This victory strengthened the soul of..."

I played DOA3 the other day, though, and it's pretty cool. It seems like it would be much more satisfying for button mashers, but I could be wrong. (i.e., really cool looking moves with more intuitive button combos, whereas Soul Caliber gives you an effective but lame looking move for a complex scheme of button presses.)

I think in terms of graphics on standard setups (i.e., interlaced TV), the dreamcast was pretty close to where PS2, Xbox, and GCN are now. In fact, I'd go as far to say that we're approaching a zenith in graphic capabilities and won't be able to increase that threshhold on any system, without a corresponding increase in the acceptance and capabilities of display systems. Face it, images on "Standard" interlaced TV can only look so good.

Full-bore acceptance of progressive has got to be next.

Back to the point, though. I won't be getting rid of my DC anytime soon, and will probably pick up a backup unit and some extra controllers and memory cards in the near future.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

The DC games weren't revolutionary but the console was. Online play may have been on the DC first of all the consoles (if you don't count X-Band, though you did need to pay, like you do now with Sega) but the games weren't revolutionary. Mario 64 pretty much created a genre and did it perfectly. Final Fantasy VII created a new genre and even set rules and precedents. Other games did the same, but pretty much none of them were on the DC. Yes, the DC had good games, but not revolutionary ones.

And about Soul Calibur, I don't like it that much. I would prefer Tekken Tag to it any day, simply because...well...Soul Calibur wasn't that fun and got boring quickly for me. The fighting wasn't as fun and the extras could only hold my interest for so long...

Graphically, it was great, and it nailed the gameplay, but the design was a little lacking somehow. I can't explain it...

Killer Instinct is probably the only fighting game that I go back to play every once in a while and keep playing for days after.

 

[Ryan Peter]

The PlayStation had Final Fantasy, the Nintendo 64 had Mario/Zelda, but what did the Dreamcast have at its launch?

The PS launched with FF? News to me. Morgan, did you get the PSOne when it launched?

Disregarding launches, DC had Shenmue which to me is much better than FF. I consider it revolutionary and so do a lot of other people. Jet Grind Radio was also revolutionary (the new Zelda is basically based on JGR technology).

 

[BrianB]

And Zelda was well after the N64's launch!

 

[ChrisV]

I'd say it was revolutionary... I'm playing these games now and wondering to myself what the hell I was doing playing bloody PSX games 'til October 2000 when I could have been playing Virtua Tennis the whole time!

Missed the boat on that one.

 

[Ryan Peter]

Does anyone have those DC game reviews by Morgan saved? I remember in his Soul Caliber review, he basically creamed his pants.

 

[Joseph Young]

The Dreamcast's strengths were directly a result of the software available for it. Anyone who wants to suggest otherwise needs to take a genuine look at the DCs back catalogue of games.

Just a smattering of examples:

Jet Grind Radio, Smilebit you are to be commended!

Bangai-O is one of the most enjoyable retro-shooters I have had the pleasure to play on a next-gen console.

Shenmue was a revolutionary (if flawed) title and an absolute joy to play all the way to the cliffhanger ending.

Space Channel 5 & Samba de Amigo..

RE:CV made its debut on the DC... so did crazy taxi

Not to mention the sports titles.

Every next generation has a plethora of sports and driving games, and the DC was no exception. But you wanna know something? I didn't have a single sports game on my DC and I still got infinite mileage out of the thing.

The value is in the games, folks, and when programmers and developers consistantly push the envelope in existing genres - and at some point create new ones - then a console has succeeded in the eyes of the gamers.

So do I believe that the DC is still a viable system and worthy of praise even under the swirling shadows of hype created by the Xbox and GC?

You bet I do.

Joseph

 

[Morgan Jolley]

I didn't say the launches for the consoles, but rather just on their lifespans.

Shenmue was revolutionary. JGR was a new style of visual graphics, but cel shading wasn't new, it had been used before on other games.

Also, Final Fantasy 7 made rules for a new genre. Same thing for Mario 64. Shenmue didn't set rules, but rather took a different look at a mish-mosh of genres. In many people's opinions, it worked, but in many others', it failed.

The DC had fun games, not revolutionary ones. I was pointing out that it didn't have revolutionary games but I never said they weren't fun.

Ryan-

I also wrote that review the week I got the game. 2 months later, my opinion of it had totally changed, and has remained similar since then. I also thought Power Stone was only so-so, but after playing it a bunch with my brother and his friends, I found out how great it was.

RE:CV made its debut on the DC... so did crazy taxi

Resident Evil is a spinoff, and both games ended up on another console (or two).

My point is that the DC's exclusive games were not that revolutionary. Every console has had a revolutionary game that redefined a genre or set a new standard, except the DC. Instead, they went in an equally great direction: they perfected those genres and made great games! Of course, other than the 2k2 games I can't think of any, but they decided to try and create perfect games instead of creating new types of games. While either is good, I would have expected a little more from Sega.

 

[BrianB]

The PlayStation had Final Fantasy, the Nintendo 64 had Mario/Zelda, but what did the Dreamcast have at its launch?

And to dismiss Samba just because Sega also released it in the arcades!?!

 

[BrianB]

And just to ram it home again:

Who cares if JGR, Samba, SC5, Soul Calibur are 'revolutionary' or not? Who *cares*? That's not what people are saying. People are saying the DC had some damn fine games that, to this day, are still worth playing.

I don't play Pacman because it was a revolution. I play it today because it's *fun*.

Understand that concept, and you'll save yourself a lot of heartache in this, and other, discussions.

 

[Morgan Jolley]

Whoops if I said launches. I meant lifespans.

If you look at just general games on consoles, then the PS2, X-Box, and GameCube should be better than the DC since they have so many DC games.

Actually, FF7 has been halted for PS2 and might not be released in America, if at all. They are concentrating more on other games and have put all their resources on those. FF7 for PS2 will not make the PSX version less revolutionary, and I never said a port would make a game less revolutionary, but would remove its status as an exclusive. Dead or Alive 2 is still DC exclusive, seeing as how DoA2:H for PS2 is technically a separate game. But Ecco, Sonic 2, SC5, Crazy Taxi, and a bunch of other games are direct ports.

My point with the ports thing is that you could buy every console and get great games, or buy every console besides the DC and STILL get the same great games.

Samba wasn't bad because it was on arcade machines first, but it wasn't revolutionary.

The DC had no revolutionary games (besides maybe Shenmue) that did anything relevant to gaming. Every console up to now has, though, within it life span.

To tell the truth, I don't see whats so great about the DC. Yeah, it had some great games, but you can get most of those games somewhere else, and if you can't, then the games either sucked or were a rare case.

Of course, like always, most of this is IMHO.

 

[BrianB]

To tell the truth, I don't see whats so great about the DC. Yeah, it had some great games, but you can get most of those games somewhere else, and if you can't, then the games either sucked or were a rare case.

We know you think like that, Morgan, you won't let anyone say they liked the DC without you popping up to remind them that they can't because the games they enjoyed at the time are /now/ out for other platforms!

Again: noone cares if Samba was revolutionary. It's just a damn fun game that's great to play. I'd *love* for it to get ported to other platforms with the maracas, that way more people can enjoy it!

Ya just don't get it my point, do you? We're not arguing exclusive - people are just saying the DC had *good games*.

 

[Joseph Young]

I used the term 'revolutionary' in regards to Shenmue. It was not my post's intention to create a debate about which DC titles were 'revolutionary.' Like BrianB and many others here have stated, we are simply praising a number of great games that made the DC a great console!
It amazes me how one can turn a perfectly docile post into a reason to bash games.
Cheers,
Joseph

 

[BrianB]

It amazes me how one can turn a perfectly docile post into a reason to bash games.

Indeed.

I need to cool it, I think. I'm allowing myself to get far too annoyed. I apologise, people.

 

[Kip]

Ah Morgan, I know I'm going to regret asking this, but besides Mario64, what game for the N64 was truly "revolutionary." To use your definition, not just a great game (Goldeneye, Zelda, etc.) but "revolutionary."

Also, to dismiss Shenmue as not really revolutionary because it contained gameplay elements from other games is ridiculous. Other than Pong few games can claim to be 100% original. Heck, at the end of the day in Mario64 you were still just collecting stars while trying to save the damn princess. Guess it wasn't so revolutionary after all!

Kip

 

[ChrisV]

I don't think Pong was very revolutionary, after all its gameplay elements already existed in table tennis.
In all seriousness, though, does "revolutionary" status even matter? Like I said before, I jumped on the DC bandwagon late, and am having enourmous amounts of fun exploring its library of games. Even though I own a PS2 which some of them may be ported to, or have sequels made on.
I think there's a lot of good games on the DC, and I enjoy playing it. Good enough for me.

 

[BrianB]

I think there's a lot of good games on the DC, and I enjoy playing it. Good enough for me.

Exactly, Chris. The *only* person dismissing the DC for not having 'revolutionary' games is Morgan.

 

[Kip]

I don't think Pong was very revolutionary, after all its gameplay elements already existed in table tennis.

LOL. You summed up my point exactly!

Kip

 

[Jason Handy]

I bought myself a DC last night, with Skies of Arcadia and Sonic Adventure. System, extra controller, VMU, and the two games came to just over $100. I was in line behind someone and he was chuckling as he asked why in the world I would ever want to buy a DC right now. I simply looked at GTA3 and MGS2 in his hand and said - "we are both about to pay the same amount of money for what we are carrying, and I am walking away with a new console"
He fell silent. My gaming experience last night was quite enjoyable, as this is my first console since SNES. My college years were pretty dry regarding video gaming, and I have been a huge PC gamer for the last 4 years. But the latest drop in prices for the DC was impossible to pass up. Not to mention, that sexy beast of a Tosh 50H81 was just begging for some gaming goodness
All told, I will probably spend $250 total, and get all the games I ever wanted for the system. And that is not even enough to get the GCN, a controller, and Luigi's Mansion! Don't get me wrong, these new systems look sweet, but after chasing the "ultimate PC upgrade", I see the financial benefit to having last year's model. The Xbox and GCN are on my list for *next* year.
I realize that the DC is not ***256 bit, 10 GHz, progressive scan*** but nobody can deny the fact that there are some great games out there for a real bargain right now.
And Morgan, i get the sense that you are upset because we are not talking about all things Nintendo in this thread. You have been trying to derail this discussion for the whole time, so please stop it. I wish to discuss things Dreamcast with other Dreamcast owners. I do not want to hear your rants about how Nintendo is awesome and DC is subpar, because as far as I am concerned it is all a matter of opinion - and we already know what yours is. Posting 50 messages in a thread will not change my opinion of the DC, but it will continue to change my opinion of YOU. And PLEASE stop using "IMHO", because your opinion is anything BUT humble!
In closing, can somebody give me a list of the "must-haves"? I have money burning a hole in my pocket, and I have on order the following:
Sonic Adventure
Skies of Arcadia
Rayman 2
Crazy Taxi 2
Test Drive V-Rally
Virtua Tennis
Wacky Racers
Thanks!
Jason

 

[Kip]

Hey Jason,

Great post. Welcome to the wonderful world that is Dreamcast gaming. You've got a pretty good list of games there, but in addition my must have list would include:

Soul Calibur

Resident Evil: Code Veronica

NBA2K2

NFL2K2

Shenmue

Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2

Of couse these things come down to the types of games you like to play, but the above six are loads of fun.

BTW: In our previous discussions of different or original games for the system, how could we forget the loveable Seaman. Not the most fun game I've ever played, but it was certainly original!

Kip