Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (2019) Non-Spoilers! (1 Viewer)

[Adam Lenhardt]

Whether he damaged the brand or not, this trailer sure sends a signal to me that someone is worried he did.

I definitely think one of the Disney marketing department's main goals with this teaser was to placate the fans who were turned off by The Last Jedi.

 

[JimmyO]

Whether he damaged the brand or not, this trailer sure sends a signal to me that someone is worried he did.

That was exactly my point when I called it damage control.

 

[Tommy R]

I’m thinking that they want to have their cake and eat it too. Placating the fan who didn’t like TLJ but also acknowledging the fans who liked TLJ by saying they will “honor” it. I don’t know, and I also don’t really care until I see the movie and will judge for myself then. As far as I’m concerned they can bring Ewoks back as long as the movie is good and feels like a worthy conclusion of the current trilogy.

 

[Carabimero]

I definitely think one of the Disney marketing department's main goals with this teaser was to placate the fans who were turned off by The Last Jedi.

If true, that means it was more than a tempest in a teacup, as some have suggested. And that fits with my perspective as someone who hangs out with tons of cosplayers who won't even mention the title of TLJ.

I should say preemptively that I'm not interested in re-litigating The Last Jedi again, because we've already done that and I've said what I want to say about it in previous conversations.)

For the record, the only reason I brought it up the other day was in response to someone who questioned how they couldn't understand why fans didn't get why Luke took his marbles and went home. So I explained my perspective.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

And that fits with my perspective as someone who hangs out with tons of cosplayers who won't even mention the title of TLJ.

Other than being an admittedly fun anecdote, I’m not sure what that proves.

I was at a Star Trek convention in the summer of 2013 when fans there voted that “Star Trek Into Darkness” as the worst Star Trek anything to ever happen in the history of Star Trek. Might have made for an amusing headline, but didn’t hurt the film as it climbed its way to being the top grossing Star Trek film of all time.

A fanbase’s most passionate members are very rarely representative of how a general audience feels. And tentpoles only succeed when they can appeal beyond a fanbase’s most passionate members.

I have no doubt that some people feel personally wounded by the existence of TLJ. But I also have no doubt that those people will have little or any impact on the overall box office.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I have no doubt that some people feel personally wounded by the existence of TLJ. But I also have no doubt that those people will have little or any impact on the overall box office.

This film franchise is too big for such an effect. I know that burns them, but that's the reality.

 

[Jake Lipson]

For the record, the only reason I brought it up the other day was in response to someone who questioned how they couldn't understand why fans didn't get why Luke took his marbles and went home. So I explained my perspective.

I wasn't criticizing you for bringing it up. I'm simply saying that I, personally, have said what I need to say about that film and that if this discussion turns into re-litigating The Last Jedi, then I would bow out of it.

I have no doubt that some people feel personally wounded by the existence of TLJ. But I also have no doubt that those people will have little or any impact on the overall box office.

Josh is right. At the time of its release, The Last Jedi became the highest-grossing film since The Force Awakens. It has since been supplanted by Infinity War and Black Panther, and will likely be supplanted by Endgame as well, but the amount of money it made could not have been achieved without the general public at large approving of the film at the time that they saw it. Some fanboys might be riled up, but by and large the general public responded to the film, and the proof is in the numbers.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

You can buy a big opening weekend, that’s certainly possible if you spend enough. But you can’t buy legs.

Sony’s Amazing Spider-Man 2 opened to almost $100 million because they basically bought that audience with the amount they spent on promotion. It’s second weekend had something like the largest drop of all time.

TLJ had a $200+ million opening weekend, and something crazy like $100 million in its second. If the film was truly despised by a general audience, it would have had an Amazing Spider-Man 2 type of drop. It didn’t.

 

[Carabimero]

This film franchise is too big for such an effect. I know that burns them, but that's the reality.

The trailer would seem to suggest otherwise, as would Disney's hiatus after IX.

Also, this is a pro Last Jedi thread, I would say. I know another board with threads that swing the other way. And they're just as sure they're right.

Alas, the world is bigger and more complicated than message boards.

 

[Robert Crawford]

The trailer would seem to suggest otherwise, as would Disney's hiatus after IX.

To you it does, but not to me.

 

[Carabimero]

To you it does, but not to me.

If things were going swimmingly, they would not be taking a hiatus. They are losing millions, arguably billions, taking the hiatus and cancelling films they previously had planned. And the announcement came after the brass screened a cut of ROS.

TLJ had a $200+ million opening weekend, and something crazy like $100 million in its second. If the film was truly despised by a general audience, it would have had an Amazing Spider-Man 2 type of drop. It didn’t.

This is the same argument people use to justify that polling fans as they leave the theater is the most accurate way to tell if people liked a movie. Problem with that is, I saw TLJ several times in the theater. How I felt about it didn't stop me from seeing it multiple times. Because it's Star Wars. So IMO that's a faulty argument. I went through denial for a while.

 

[Tommy R]

Some fanboys might be riled up, but by and large the general public responded to the film, and the proof is in the numbers.

I saw TLJ twice it’s opening weekend, once at the Thursday late night showing, the audience of which applauded politely at the end (it was almost 3am when it ended). The second time I saw it Saturday afternoon, and the audience went CRAZY when the credits rolled. It was seriously the biggest applause I’ve ever heard, louder even than when the Lucasfilm logo came up at the beginning of TFA two years earlier.

 

[Robert Crawford]

If things were going swimmingly, they would not be taking a hiatus. They are losing millions, arguably billions, taking the hiatus and cancelling films they previously had planned. And the announcement came after the brass screened a cut of ROS.

I think you're arguing about something differently than what I'm saying. I'm saying the franchise is too big for the fanboys to affect the box office of this upcoming film. And the reality of that bothers that segment of people.

 

[Carabimero]

I think you're arguing about something differently than what I'm saying. I'm saying the franchise is too big for the fanboys to affect the box office of this upcoming film. And the reality of that bothers that segment of people.

Okay, I don't think we fundamentally disagree on that.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

The hiatus after IX has nothing to do with TLJ and everything to do with Disney discovering that a mass audience won’t come out in full force for any old thing with “Star Wars” in the title after the release of “Solo.” And Disney is not interested in smaller grossing projects.

They’ve realized that a general audience doesn’t want to pay theatrical dollars for smaller Star Wars stories. They want big, giant, paradigm shifting epics. The minuta will get you a $200 million domestic gross, which is great for most things but not a Disney tentpole. To me, it seems clear that Disney isn’t interested in making Star Wars films that don’t gross a billion dollars, so they’re clearing the deck of the types of smaller Star Wars films that won’t.

Until “Solo” came out, Disney probably genuinely believed that any Star Wars anything could gross a billion. Now that they know that’s not true, they’re being more selective about what they make.

To say nothing of the idea that they’re also repurposing some of those discarded ideas for Disney+ as a way of driving subscriptions. Creating fan loyalty towards their new platform is probably a calculated business decision. Have new Star Wars content exclusive to Disney+, use that to drive subscriptions up, and have that as an incentive to sign up people long term. Analysts in a N.Y. Times article recently wrote that Disney expects to lose over a billion a year on Disney+ for about the next five years before they turn a profit. That’s one hell of a long game they’re playing if they can afford to do that. So I think there are two separate goals at play here: one is to wait on the theatrical side until they have something that can gross a billion, and the other is to use original Star Wars content to start building a long term audience for Disney+ that’ll ensure long term profitability and brand loyalty.

 

[Robert Crawford]

The hiatus after IX has nothing to do with TLJ and everything to do with Disney discovering that a mass audience won’t come out in full force for any old thing with “Star Wars” in the title after the release of “Solo.” And Disney is not interested in smaller grossing projects.

They’ve realized that a general audience doesn’t want to pay theatrical dollars for smaller Star Wars stories. They want big, giant, paradigm shifting epics. The minuta will get you a $200 million domestic gross, which is great for most things but not a Disney tentpole. To me, it seems clear that Disney isn’t interested in making Star Wars films that don’t gross a billion dollars, so they’re clearing the deck of the types of smaller Star Wars films that won’t.

Until “Solo” came out, Disney probably genuinely believed that any Star Wars anything could gross a billion. Now that they know that’s not true, they’re being more selective about what they make.

To say nothing of the idea that they’re also repurposing some of those discarded ideas for Disney+ as a way of driving subscriptions. Creating fan loyalty towards their new platform is probably a calculated business decision. Have new Star Wars content exclusive to Disney+, use that to drive subscriptions up, and have that as an incentive to sign up people long term. Analysts in a N.Y. Times article recently wrote that Disney expects to lose over a billion a year on Disney+ for about the next five years before they turn a profit. That’s one hell of a long game they’re playing if they can afford to do that. So I think there are two separate goals at play here: one is to wait on the theatrical side until they have something that can gross a billion, and the other is to use original Star Wars content to start building a long term audience for Disney+ that’ll ensure long term profitability and brand loyalty.

This!

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

The trailer would seem to suggest otherwise, as would Disney's hiatus after IX.

It's the marketing department's job to maximize turnout. Placating the haters is the difference between a $200 million opening weekend and a $250 million opening weekend.

This is the final Saga film (at least for the foreseeable future). It's going to do massive business. The marketing team's job is to get it to do even more massive business.

If things were going swimmingly, they would not be taking a hiatus. They are losing millions, arguably billions, taking the hiatus and cancelling films they previously had planned. And the announcement came after the brass screened a cut of ROS.

The hiatus was a foregone conclusion once Solo bombed. The Benioff/Weiss trilogy was always going to be on hold until "Game of Thrones" wrapped, and the Johnson trilogy was a similarly slow burn. Lucasfilm's plan for bridging the gap was the anthology films. Solo killed the anthology films (at least for the foreseeable future), so the pipeline dried up. There's no reason to believe that the hiatus is in reaction to Rise of Skywalker.

I'm fine with the hiatus, personally. I think Star Wars works better with some breathing room between movies. And I'd rather they not start crapping them out to meet preordained deadlines. That was Tom Rothman's strategy at 20th Century Fox, and it traded short-term success for long-term sustainability.

 

[Robert Crawford]

It's the marketing department's job to maximize turnout. Placating the haters is the difference between a $200 million opening weekend and a $250 million opening weekend.

This is the final Saga film (at least for the foreseeable future). It's going to do massive business. The marketing team's job is to get it to do even more massive business.


The hiatus was a foregone conclusion once Solo bombed. The Benioff/Weiss trilogy was always going to be on hold until "Game of Thrones" wrapped, and the Johnson trilogy was a similarly slow burn. Lucasfilm's plan for bridging the gap was the anthology films. Solo killed the anthology films (at least for the foreseeable future), so the pipeline dried up. There's no reason to believe that the hiatus is in reaction to Rise of Skywalker.

I'm fine with the hiatus, personally. I think Star Wars works better with some breathing room between movies. And I'd rather they not start crapping them out to meet preordained deadlines. That was Tom Rothman's strategy at 20th Century Fox, and it traded short-term success for long-term sustainability.

TBH, I'm about done with Star Wars films, at least to the degree I have been with these three trilogy series. When the first Star Wars film came out I was in college and watched it several times back then. However, I'm in my 60's now so I'm ready to move on from future films. I'll still watch the shows on Disney+, but I doubt my passion going forward will match the level I had for the prior movies.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I think part of the passion that Star Wars has inspired over the years was fueled by its scarcity. For the originals and prequels, you had to wait three years between films. Getting a new SW film was such a rare treat that there was room in the pop culture zeitgeist for everyone to drop everything and rush to the theaters when one did appear.

If they come out every year, no matter how good they are, it’s just another endless franchise that people can take or leave at their leisure.

 

[Robert Crawford]

By the way, I feel the same way about the Avengers films. When Downey, Hemsworth and Evans leave the franchise then my passion for future films will be affected too. I'm getting older and my film taste is evolving with my advancing age.